|
Hey all,
So I am running We Be Goblins and We Be Goblins Too at GenCon. Each is in a 5 hour slot (which is really 4:30) in which to run 2 tables. So about 2:30 per table. I ran a test table of each at my home game. 4 players, 1 for each pregen. The We Be Goblins ran fine, maybe a little long because my home game table goofs off and I wasn't keeping them reigned in. However, when they played We Be Goblins too, the moot ran way way way too long. I figure no more than 30 min for the entire moot, leaving an 1:45-2 hrs for the actual important part. However, 2 of these dares require actual combat.
What ended up happening was is that a couple players felt hopeless (failed acrobatics checks, could not escape bonds) and the other 1-2 players took for ever to finish everything off.
Does anyone have any advice for making these games quicker? They are obviously not the point of the scenario and they ended up just frustrating most of my players. Do I have any options for calling them early without making the players feel like I hampered their ability to win the moot?
|
|
Eric: Poop fell on the very first acrobatics check. Same thing with Rita. The last two rolled low and did mediocre damage. It took more than 12 rounds to finish. I made a ruling that they had to "enter" the game by at least moving out onto the boards - I probably will remove that next time.
In the last one, since he couldn't channel without harming the others, he didn't. It's kind of one of those iffy "PvP" grey areas and so I left it up to the players. It also took for ever for him to escape the bonds and be able to present his unholy symbol (which he doesn't have).
Jason: Yeah...it's a challenge but it is doable as long as you remind the players of their time limit (and thus cut down on all the goblin hooliganism). If you play the final map of the boat right, the players tend to fight one of the dogs and then walk right in to Vorka's cabin. You have to literally walk past her door and go upstairs to not fight her after the first chained dog. In this way Vorka has little chance to wake up before hand to prep and the players can skip 2 fights (the normal dog and the advanced riding dog on the next floor up).
|
My plan was to cut encounters, or to cut each scenario into two parts.
We Be Goblins would have a dare portion and a boat portion. It's possible that the dares are actually a set up to hunt down Lotsalegs, and the module can end there.
We Be Goblins Too would have a become chief of the Birdcrunchers portion and a hunt down Pa Munchmeat portion. Perhaps the last challenge of becoming a chief is to defeat a fire-eating boar?
|
|
Thanks Mergy. This is what I was looking for. Ways to cut the modules down if need be without breaking the PFS rules on running as written.
Which plan are you leaning toward?
Splitting it in half:
I guess that could work. I just don't want players feeling like the got ripped off by sitting at the table that played the first half. Someone is bound to feel that 1 combat encounter (WBG first half) against a CR1 Giant spider was not enough. The same goes for WBG2.
Cutting out encounters:
This might work better. Cut the moots out. They are really there just to give people a way to act like a goblin and have a little fun. I think the players could get this without them. If you jump straight to the adventure portion you could get away with 3 encounters. You can also jut encounters out on the fly if the players get adventuresome and want to kick down every door.
|
Personally, I'd cut down the number of encoutners before cutting the games. Those are the fun parts, generally.
In the first mod, you could easily cut out the spider and horse without any issues, maybe even a dog or twoo as well.
In the second one, you could cut the dog and the daughter without any issues. You could proabbly also cut the owlbear or the pigs, but I dont think Id cut both. Alsom the games could be simplified a bit. In the stirge squash one, a couple of the bugs could break loose and fly off if the players take too much time.
Good luck with this. I know I would feel pressured if I had to run these back to back in 4 hours. :/
|
|
For WBG2, I like cutting the daughter and having a LOT of extra blood in the owlbear pen. There's also no need to have a second boar, or the single dog.
Or just say that there's a dog chained up and let the players kill it without it being a combat encounter. Let goblins be goblins without making everything a combat.
|
|
Personally, I'd cut down the number of encoutners before cutting the games. Those are the fun parts, generally.
In the first mod, you could easily cut out the spider and horse without any issues, maybe even a dog or twoo as well.
In the second one, you could cut the dog and the daughter without any issues. You could proabbly also cut the owlbear or the pigs, but I dont think Id cut both. Alsom the games could be simplified a bit. In the stirge squash one, a couple of the bugs could break loose and fly off if the players take too much time.
Good luck with this. I know I would feel pressured if I had to run these back to back in 4 hours. :/
Sound advice here. Run whichever encounters you think will be the most enjoyable/hilarious/crazy.
|
|
Thanks all! Very sound advice.
I think for WBG I will cut the spider and the dogs. That leaves the horse encounter (makes the player with the horsebane dogslicer feel special) and Vorka. I may leave 1 dog just to give Vorka a chance to wake up (6hp and chained to a mast = speedbump).
For WBG2 I agree that the dog and owlbear can be cut easy. I will cut the daughter if I feel that time is running low. That leaves the fire-boar, the pigs (must find Squeely Nord) and Pa.
Yeah. I have never had to run these in a two-hour slot. Definitely going to need a timer at the table just to keep things right.
|
|
Cutting down the length of each game could help too. 1 or 2 rounds in the bird shoot, half as many stirges, etc. Also, don't give them much time to be goblins around each tribe, as much as I hate to say it. Just go straight into the games in each scenario, after meeting Gutwaddle/Sprattleharsh.
Absolutely DO NOT takr any more than 4 players. I ran 6 in each slot at a previous con and the games took half the slot, especially in wbgt.
|
I ran this twice at Connecticon....both times Poog and rita never got to making acrobatics checks, they fireball/range attacked everything from land
They also both combined a few encounters together
|
I have noted those before in a GM post where I was wondering where I could cut out some time. WBG can easily fill 4 hours and WBG2 can easily go 5+ hours. I don't think the writer really understood how long some of the areas could really take.
Unfortunately, the games in both modules can eat up a massive amount of time. The responses I got when I queried about what to do essentially amounted to "run it quicker" and you can't alter any of the content.
How does that work out if your forced to prematurely end encounters, rush through areas, and/or give your players a subpar experience due to adhering to that unalterable mantra?
|
|
OP here.
I ran WBG and WBG2 at Gencon 2013. These are fun scenarios to GM but at Gencon they get crammed into 2.5 hr slots. That means that you really have to try to get them done in 2hr plus some change.
I decided to go with the changes that I made (see post 10). These changes worked well and I was able to run the scenarios in the time needed. More importantly, the players at my table had a LOT of fun and didn't even know that I had cut encounters.
My suggestions are:
1) come with printed / pre-drawn maps of everything.
2) Have a ridiculous number of copies of each pregen. Players will write all over them, want to take them home, want a copy of each, etc.
3) Have a print out with the advertizing blurb and the entire intro speech. This way if players aren't paying attention or can't hear over the shouting table next door they can still get the info.
4) Have PFS # cards on hand. I got a lot of first time walk ins on Sunday morning.
5) Buy some plastic goblin mini's with your paizo bucks. It's just fun if everyone has a goblin mini. I let people go home with them.
6) Pre-roll / fill out anything that you can. This will speed things up.
7) Role play the hell out of the NPC goblins. WBG is usually run towards the end of the con (it was for me). This means that people are tired, sore, and brain dead. If your RPing it up, it will draw them too as well and that's the big reason to play WBG.
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
|
I have noted those before in a GM post where I was wondering where I could cut out some time. WBG can easily fill 4 hours and WBG2 can easily go 5+ hours. I don't think the writer really understood how long some of the areas could really take.
Unfortunately, the games in both modules can eat up a massive amount of time. The responses I got when I queried about what to do essentially amounted to "run it quicker" and you can't alter any of the content.
How does that work out if your forced to prematurely end encounters, rush through areas, and/or give your players a subpar experience due to adhering to that unalterable mantra?
These were written without the optional encounters PFS usually has.
While you have to stick to RAW, having the module cut short is not a fun option. As the goblin series already have special rules for PFS, cutting some here and there can greatly increase the fun.More roleplaying as goblins is more better in my opinion.
Anyway, Lotsalegs eat goblin babies many, altough cool in name, is an encounter I tend to scrap if things have already gone over time with the goblin festivities.
Its a bit of a weird in the middle encounter and can even be deadly (poor saves vs poison...).
|
|
So, I am prepping this thing,
A 4 foot by 3.5 foot map? Really Guys? That thing is going to take me 20 sheets of paper to stitch together.
My recommendation regarding this is to break the map up into different areas based on the encounters. There isn't really a great need for a map for a couple of areas also, so that can save you some map space.
|
|
Maybe I'm crazy, but isn't the "more roleplaying" option (which I really enjoy doing a bunch anyway!) a bit counter-intuitive to keeping the time down? I think that was part of the problem with these modules to begin with. There's so much to have fun with, including the player interactions and role-play.
|
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
|
OP here.
I ran WBG and WBG2 at Gencon 2013. These are fun scenarios to GM but at Gencon they get crammed into 2.5 hr slots. That means that you really have to try to get them done in 2hr plus some change.
I decided to go with the changes that I made (see post 10). These changes worked well and I was able to run the scenarios in the time needed. More importantly, the players at my table had a LOT of fun and didn't even know that I had cut encounters.
My suggestions are:
1) come with printed / pre-drawn maps of everything.
2) Have a ridiculous number of copies of each pregen. Players will write all over them, want to take them home, want a copy of each, etc.
3) Have a print out with the advertizing blurb and the entire intro speech. This way if players aren't paying attention or can't hear over the shouting table next door they can still get the info.
4) Have PFS # cards on hand. I got a lot of first time walk ins on Sunday morning.
5) Buy some plastic goblin mini's with your paizo bucks. It's just fun if everyone has a goblin mini. I let people go home with them.
6) Pre-roll / fill out anything that you can. This will speed things up.
7) Role play the hell out of the NPC goblins. WBG is usually run towards the end of the con (it was for me). This means that people are tired, sore, and brain dead. If your RPing it up, it will draw them too as well and that's the big reason to play WBG.
Luckily in 2014 WBG and WBG II got regular slots (so 5 hours per part).
|
|
In the last one, since he couldn't channel without harming the others, he didn't. It's kind of one of those iffy "PvP" grey areas and so I left it up to the players. It also took for ever for him to escape the bonds and be able to present his unholy symbol (which he doesn't have).
I wanted to comment on this point. There is no "iffy" PvP in WBG. PvP should be encouraged. I've run the first one at least five times. On at least two occasions they PvP/TPKed before they got to the boat.
Those are also a couple of the sessions where the players went away happiest. Play up the malicious, crazy nature of goblins. One of those PvP/TPKs was while going through the loot in LotsLeg's cave. Fighting over the
|
Poog of Zarongel become Chieftain by proving Zarongel best.
Fireball all stirges, fireball whole pie with hawks and goblins (including Poog, which hurt abit, but Zarongel make Poog better afterwards), fireball all the way to chieftainhood! All Birdcrunchers now worship Zarongel! Poog show Zarongel is the best!
|
|
I would like to point out that just because a goblin is eliminated does not mean he can't continue to affect the outcome. :)
This. I ran WBG, Too two times Saturday. Both times I told the players that they're playing psychotic pyromaniac goblins. The first game went well with a full 4 person table. It's clear the second challenge of the moot was where Poog is supposed to shine. My players got into it, and Poog started channeling, regardless of his comrads (I gave specific instructions that goblins are not PFS, and PVP is allowed within reason, but don't kill each other). While my players didn't cross any lines, I was ready to ask them to back off each other if it started impacting everybody's fun. (In-fighting shenanigans that led to completely ignoring the moot in certain challenges was usually accepted as hilarious and good times were had.)
They had a blast as a full table seems to have at least one player with a means to sweep an encounter in a reasonable amount of time.
The second game didn't have a Poog, and the second challenge dragged on for quite awhile until our Mogmerch realized he had bombs and they did significantly more damage than their other weapons. After that, the game went a bit better. However, it was difficult at times to keep the players in the mood/game for being psychotic little munchkins, particularly after a section had dragged. This scenario definitely goes best when Poog and Mogmerch are active players. Also when you have everyone sing their songs at the start!
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
I hadn't noticed this change from the earlier versions. Kind of annoying. Thanks for pointing it out.The difference is pvp in WBG1 has no consequences.
Dying in WBG 3 costs 5 prestige.
I admit I saw that rule and immediately wished I hadn't noticed it. I'm honest enough that having seen it, I couldn't pretend I didn't.
|
|
So, I am prepping this thing,
A 4 foot by 3.5 foot map? Really Guys? That thing is going to take me 20 sheets of paper to stitch together.
Man, I did this on the smallest-size battlemat. I only had to cut a few feet of fence on one side.
I used page protectors and wet-erase markers to make overlays of the different layers of the boat. The boat drawing itself is just an outline and some masts. The rest is overlays.