|
If the check succeeds, you disable the device. If it fails by 4 or less, you have failed but can try again. If you fail by 5 or more, something goes wrong. If the device is a trap, you spring it. If you’re attempting some sort of sabotage, you think the device is disabled, but it still works normally.
This doesn't suggest what might go wrong when picking a lock - breaking your lockpick? Damaging the lock such that it's harder (or impossible) to open, or just so that it looks obvious that the lock has been picked? Any of the above, depending on how bad the failure is?
Or was lockpicking supposed to be the exception to the "something goes wrong" rule for this skill?
I can easily seer damaging or destroying your lockpicks on such a failure, as well as jamming the lock.
By RAW there appears to be no consequences.
Open Locks: The DC for opening a lock depends on its quality. If you do not have a set of thieves' tools, these DCs increase by 10.
Action: The amount of time needed to make a Disable Device check depends on the task, as noted above. Disabling a simple device takes 1 round and is a full-round action. A tricky or difficult device requires 1d4 or 2d4 rounds. Attempting to open a lock is a full-round action.
Try Again: Varies. You can retry checks made to disable traps if you miss the check by 4 or less. You can retry checks made to open locks.
Also should probably look at the PRD version of Disable Device, not D20PFSRD.
The door stays locked. If you roll a 1 your pick breaks.
Results for failing a Disable Device check on a lock (all optional/houserule material):
- Lock jams; no longer openable w/out dismantling (1d4 hours' work)
- Lockpick breaks; thief's tools receive Broken condition and are at -2 to operate
- Lock explodes: 1d4 piercing damage/Lock Grade (Poor - 1d4, Common - 2d4,) Plus 1 Bleed to 5' burst from lock; Ref save (DC 10 for Poor lock +2 for every grade above that) for half damage/no Bleed
- (if lock or opening is infused with magic) Magical repulsion field: Force effect Bull Rush +10 CMB versus Disable Device user; thereafter the lock is +5 to DC to pick due to enhanced field of Force energy
- Lockpick impale: pick or tool rebounds and impales hand of Disable Device user; victim suffers 2 Dex damage and IN ADDITION is -2 on all skill checks involving their hands until damage is healed
- Cave in as the vibrations of the work destroy the keystone of the archway into which the door/gate/portcullis was set (not applicable if not a portal of passage in the structure)
- Splinter to the eye: a shard of material from the structure around the lock lodges in the eye of the Disable Device user; 2 Wis damage and victim is Dazzled until the damage is healed
- Caustic lock dust is inhaled; treat as Burnt Othur Fumes
- Spring darts into throat: Disable Device victim suffers 2 Con damage and is Fatigued until damage is healed
- Lock Madness (mild mania) contracted: all further attempts to use Disable Device to open a lock result in -4 penalty until 24 hours of rest, recovery and counseling
- Slam head against lock: Disable Device user smashes their forehead against the lock; 2 Int damage and victim is initially unconscious for 1d4 rounds, after which they are dazzled until damage is healed
These are just a FEW ideas, but I'm sure more will be thought up.
|
|
Mark Hoover - those are fun.
You can take 20 on picking a lock so there is no hazard if you fail. You can only take 20 on things that have no adverse consequence. Messing with traps you can't take 20 because there is adverse effects for failure.
Can you point me at somewhere in the rules where it says you can take 20 to open a lock? This came up in a game where I threw a difficult lock at my party assuming that they'd be able to take 20 if necessary, at which point my player informed me that there was a failure consequence for Disable Device.
By RAW there appears to be no consequences.
Also should probably look at the PRD version of Disable Device, not D20PFSRD.Open Locks: The DC for opening a lock depends on its quality. If you do not have a set of thieves' tools, these DCs increase by 10.
Action: The amount of time needed to make a Disable Device check depends on the task, as noted above. Disabling a simple device takes 1 round and is a full-round action. A tricky or difficult device requires 1d4 or 2d4 rounds. Attempting to open a lock is a full-round action.
Try Again: Varies. You can retry checks made to disable traps if you miss the check by 4 or less. You can retry checks made to open locks.
The D20PFSRD has exactly the same text, and a far superior interface. Among other things, it has more thorough linking, making it easier to reference related abilities, and also organizes content by type (feats, spells) rather than by book. I have heard that the D20PFSRD occasionally has errors (since it isn't official) but have never seen an example of such, and even if it did include an error I would rather have the better interface than perfect accuracy. It's not like I'm playing strict RAW anyway (especially with all the FAQ clarifications).
The text above also says nothing to contradict the general Disable Device rule that "If you fail by 5 or more, something goes wrong" unless the separate line for Open Lock is supposed to indicate that it is exempt from the general rules for failure (which were given under the heading "Check"). Hence the second part of the question - is open lock supposed to be an exception?
If you fail to open the lock, or if you roll a 1 and fail... NOTHING HAPPENS.
That's it.
As it is, it's way too easy to just physically destroy most locks; having locks possibly jam from attempts to break them but not doing so when you try to pick them is (along with the stealthiness/noise factor) the only reason to bother with the skill in the first place.
And having the pick break, even if it was masterwork tools, is not supported by RAW at all and is a super evil, douchebag thing to do.
Also, people really need to keep in mind that PF combined skills from 3E, but largely copy/pasted the rules for them. So it is worth looking at the 3E skills for reference.
Note how the latter has absolutely *nothing* about penalties for failure. While as the quoted text in the OP is ripped straight from 3E disable device.
PF did a really crappy job of clearing up confusion like this when they merged the skills but didn't change the text or add notes at all that this part applies to this use of the skill only and that part applies to that use of the skill only, etc...
But yeah, that's why the text in the OP "oddly" seems to only apply to trap disabling -- because that is all it applies to.
|
Can you point me at somewhere in the rules where it says you can take 20 to open a lock?End of the 3rd paragraph past "Taking 20:"
Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).That is the only place I'm aware of that they specifically call out skills that can be used to Take 20 and make a distinction between certain skills that can be used to Take 20 just for some aspects of it.
Thanks for posting this, I would've just dropped it. Whenever someone asks me to "prove it" on the internet I usually just drop the thread due to me just not caring if they play the game wrong.
Thanks again.|
|
@StreamOfTheSky - Ah, that explains why the Disable Device description contradicted my sense of how it was supposed to work.
Can you point me at somewhere in the rules where it says you can take 20 to open a lock?End of the 3rd paragraph past "Taking 20:"
Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).That is the only place I'm aware of that they specifically call out skills that can be used to Take 20 and make a distinction between certain skills that can be used to Take 20 just for some aspects of it.
Thanks! Now I can continue presenting my player with locks he'll need to take 20 to open.
Thanks for posting this, I would've just dropped it. Whenever someone asks me to "prove it" on the internet I usually just drop the thread due to me just not caring if they play the game wrong.
Thanks again.
Sorry, I didn't mean to doubt your word, it's just that this issue came up when I had a disagreement with a player over whether he could take 20 to open a lock and I'd like to have something to show him other than "some guy on the internet says you can." You are under no obligation to care but I'm glad that JHFizban did.