I understand why you want a cheaper version. But you also can't get a +1 longsword for 2015gp ("I don't need the masterwork quality, it already has +1 to hit!"). You can't get Improved Trip without Combat Expertise ("My Int 7 fighter wants to trip!"). Those speed bumps are there for balance purposes.
Just because it is the way it is doesn't mean its balanced or was actually meant to be balanced. The game is actually far from balanced in that regard, the creators and certain decisions are far from perfect. Plenty of people would argue taking a feat you would never use is a bad thing(and a pretty big waste), that its silly you need 13 int to take combat maneuver feats, weapon qualities aren't equal and some are weaker than a +1 enhancement, and that it wouldn't be that overpowered to have a base price for a wayfinder with multiple slots. Probably offtopic though.
Anyways, I have trouble finding wayfinders with more than one ioun stone slot myself. Cheapest with multiple is ebon, but that's already been mentioned.
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** spoiler omitted **
My PC was lvl. 7 at the time. So only the high tier scenario would apply. And there are only so many upgrades a Fighter can get to his saves at lvl. 7. Ultimately you are still stuck at +2 Will and maybe +2 to a cloak? Which gives a giant total of +4 Will. Will saves suck for fighters. I am forced to go for the clear prism or I'll be murdering my fellow party members.
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I am forced to go for the clear prism or I'll be murdering my fellow party members.I think you overestimate your fighter and underestimate your party members.
I don't necessarily mind fear. Oh, woe is me, I peed my pants and ran away. Actually that's exactly what happened on Thursday, I was hasted and then ran like a little girl for 7 rounds. The party got the job done, while I went out for a cigarette.
But mind controlled?
Here's my lvl. 8 output and its not a totally maxed out one.
To hit
+13/+13/+8
2d8+30/1d8+15/1d8+15
My crits:
4d8+60 or 3d8+45
Next level I was thinking of doubling my crit range and then I'd really be a murderous beast if I got mind controlled.
And if I get hasted by the party sorcerer. You can add another +1 to hit and another shot with 1d8+15
So, how much hp do you think a lvl. 8 PC has? Because I go into Rambo mode and AC becomes your only saving grace. And with haste I'm attacking at +14/+14/+14/+9.
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By underestimating your party, I was speaking to their capabilities. Oh look, the fighter just got dominated. Now what? Magic Circle vs. Evil, Create Pit, Grease your sword, Web, Entangle, Confusion, Glitterdust. Disarm, Grapple, or any of the other tricks the rest of your party would use versus every other fighter-type NPC.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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By underestimating your party, I was speaking to their capabilities. Oh look, the fighter just got dominated. Now what? Magic Circle vs. Evil, Create Pit, Grease your sword, Web, Entangle, Confusion, Glitterdust. Disarm, Grapple, or any of the other tricks the rest of your party would use versus every other fighter-type NPC.
I've found a simple scroll of Fog Cloud to also work wonders in these situations. The last time I used it both the fighter types were hit with Confusion and the first one to go rolled "attack nearest target" who happened to be the other confused fighter. Scroll of Fog Cloud solved that ridiculous chain of events that was about to occur.
I have yet to see a dominated fighter actually become the bane of his own party. So much so that when it's a part of the BBEG's tactics I actually kind of avoid it.
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Ranged fighter with high initiative.
If the Dominate comes in a surprise round from an invisible caster, I'm the most likely person to go first, due to my initiative. I go first someone dies. The other spells are good but it will probably be after the fact.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Ranged fighter with high initiative.
If the Dominate comes in a surprise round from an invisible caster, I'm the most likely person to go first, due to my initiative. I go first someone dies. The other spells are good but it will probably be after the fact.
** spoiler omitted **
Funny you should mention all that. A ranged fighter with high initiative is exactly the situation I defused with Fog Cloud in that exact encounter. (-:
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Did you go before he did?
If you did, then everyone is safe. If you didn't, the guy with no armor is the first target. And I assume that since you used a scroll, that you are the no armor wizard? Just checking because a heavy armor fighter can read scrolls to, these days.
Me? No. I went before the other fighter, though.
Confusion hit, both fighters failed their save (and the rogue). Rogue goes, gets lucky and rolls "act normally" so moves in to the very back of the room looking for the baddy. Ranged guy goes, has to shoot nearest target (the other fighter, who was also confused). Hits, which will force the confused fighter to attack him back. Had that played out, those two would have killed each other. Happily, I went before he did. Fog Cloud. Seeing as he's standing 10' away from the ranged guy he can't see him, so regular confusion results kick in and he rolls "attack nearest target." Well, he can't see anyone, so the spell says "stand there and babble."
Essentially, the confusion became a 25% chance for those two guys to merely do 1d8+STR to themselves and nothing but babble otherwise (they never rolled "act normally" or I'm sure they would have simply stood safely where they were). Thanks to a 25gp scroll.
The rogue was a slight issue, but seeing as we all made sure his "closest target" was always the BBEG, it worked out.
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I'm the GM, and **Spoiler Omitted**Yeah, I gotta call BS on that. **Spoiler Omitted**
And a hardass GM would tell you, that you waited 10 minutes in front of every door or you cheated. And took 20 on every trap, which took you 90+ minutes. That means you are over your mission time limit.
Mission FAILED
Gaming a mission like taking 10 minutes in front of the BBEG door can get you some unpleasant circumstances if the GM thinks you've cheated and read the scenario prior to playing it and then miraculously picked the right door to wait 10 minutes in front of. Or maybe in the 10 minutes you've taken to wait her out, she summons some friends and you've got the City Guard attacking you from behind.
After all, this was a VC you were going up against.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Erm, perhaps "meta-gaming" might be an applicable term. But cheating? No.
Also, the "time limit" for most scenarios is the four- or five-hour time slot that it is scheduled to be played during. There are a few scenarios that have in-game clocks (The Disappeared comes to mind) but I don't think even those have a "Mission FAILED" consequence that is hard and fast. Once the clock runs out there are consequences, sure, but most can be worked around by a smart group.
However, I *will* say that, had SCPRedMage been at my table, I would have run his tactic slightly differently than his GM obviously did: Once the door lock was opened, I would have had initiative rolled. If the players had spent the next 100 rounds "delaying" then each side is at least on even footing, the spirit of the game is left intact and the temptation to meta-game is removed.
Edited for clarity
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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You reasons for doing it are why I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying meta-gaming "might be applicable." I'm certainly not accusing you, and can get behind the tactic 100%.
Nor am I trying to say that was how I would "deal with it." I said that's how I'd run it. I've had many situations where I'll call for initiative when no one is swinging a sword, and the reason is to keep everyone honest. There is no harm in it. And, far from frustrating people, I've found they appreciate the ability to have their say during their "turn."
Now, please don't wander down grumpy lane with me and instead read what I had to say. I'm pretty fair, and accept a lot of fun ideas (and yours was fun). I expect the same treatment from my players, is all.
PS - Saying "I delay" a hundred times is not how that would play out. If the party was all on the same page, that's gonna get skipped. "So, you delay for the next ten minutes? Cool. I'm gonna do my things during those 10 minutes, you're all going to do yours. Just let me write some notes down, you can all do the same. If anyone gets antsy and wants to bust the door in on minute nine, please say so. No? Okay, we're at the start of round 101. Rogue, what do you want to do?"
Developer
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Added spoilers to several posts discussing the specifics of a scenario not overtly called out in the threads title. Please hide anything that might give away details of a scenario that the thread isn't specifically about.
Also, removed a whole bunch of arguing and personal attacks and the responses to those posts. Keep it civil.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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They say tone and intent doesn't come across the internet very well. I'll just chalk this mis-communication up to that fact.
But bad guys are smart, too, and GMs are allowed to play them that way. If the door to my inner sanctum is getting unlocked, I'm going to prep some stuff. If the people on the other side subsequently try to wait me out, I'm going to be annoyed that the stuff I prepped just got wasted. But I'm also going to figure out what else I can do once those guys are done waiting, or try to figure out what exactly they're waiting on.
Of course, if you'd rather I just play all my bad guys as morons, just say so at the beginning of the game. So long as everyone is in agreement, I can have fun with that, too.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Very true. Sounds like a bunch of sense motive and perception checks on both sides. Think that's fair? I'll show you my bonus and my rolls so that you know I'm on the up-and-up, and we'll go from there.
Huh. That's pretty good.
Well, then. You know that sound Beeker makes when he starts to panic?
I'm the GM, and ** spoiler omitted **
Why are you running a normal character (player created and possibly optimized) in a PFS scenario when you are the GM?
Table only has 3 players and you are playing a GM NPC to make it a legal table? if so, they aren't you supposed to use a pre-gen NPC?
Got it.
I did misread the posts - I thought that you were saying that you were the GM and that your archer PC was there.
Need more caffeine.....
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@Anyone else, who's metagaming it like this. Since you don't know what's behind the door. The GM can say you opened the door and there's a 10 foot corridor. Congrats, another door ahead of you 10 feet from the final door. And if the GM makes a note prior to a game and puts it in his shirt pocket because he thinks you're meta-gaming. He'll be free and clear to make an 80 foot corridor, with a door, every 10 feet.
He just has to put it down, so it doesn't look like he's making a random act to counter your PCs, in that specific scenario. And 80 minutes later, your party will fail. BTW, this mission had a 90 minute clock.
So, you'd get away meta gaming a mission, in the first scenario and by about the second or third one a half way decent GM would nail you like that. And no one at Paizo would say boo because they'd probably agree with such a method.
If such a Wayfinder existed, nobody would pay for the other ones. There would be no reason to, since you lose all other magical abilities. People would choose the cheaper, non-descript one every time. The reason the ones we have exist is to keep the price exorbitant and deter everyone from walking around with the same item.
And people say it is bad when players metagame.
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So, you'd get away meta gaming a mission, in the first scenario and by about the second or third one a half way decent GM would nail you like that. And no one at Paizo would say boo because they'd probably agree with such a method.
So...does everyone mean nobody in your world? Because we have been told specifically that we can NOT DO THIS AS A PFS GM. Seriously, if your having so much issues with running and playing PFS AS WRITTEN, you really should look at home games. PFS isn't for everyone and if you can't follow the rules, then it is not for you.
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Yeah, except for the part where PFS-sanctioned games are to be run as written, meaning GMs are not allowed to pull that kind of crap. So yeah, Mike Brock WOULD say "boo" about it, as you put it, because he has time and again stated that scenarios are to be run as written, and changing the map for the explicit purpose of frustrating the players is not "as written".
As to calling it meta-gaming, I continue to protest: we knew she was a spellcaster, and from the layout of the floor (that we could see), it was almost certain that behind that door was one room, and that would HAVE to be where she was hiding. The decision was made off of IN CHARACTER knowledge, therefore it was NOT meta-gaming.
I agree with you that there was a good likely hood that the that room was the last.
But standing around for 10 minutes waiting for buffs to die off are definitely player actions that allow for a GM to toss written tactics out the window and play the NPC intelligently.
Or possibly freak out because the players are doing something unexpected. "Why aren't they doing what they're supposed to do!" happens often enough. Of course, what extra things could the NPC be doing to be played 'intelligently'?
I guess you could be a jerk and make it 10 times harder because you don't like it when players play smart.
** spoiler omitted **
in which case your still playing as written and its a different scenario than the one you posted.
Huh? Your sentence above seems contradictory.
Its because I used the word scenario without referring to the game term. Your given scenario was "well you can toss out the written tactics" and then you post about someone following the tactics in response to me commenting about someone going against the tactics. Make sense?
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But standing around for 10 minutes waiting for buffs to die off are definitely player actions that allow for a GM to toss written tactics out the window and play the NPC intelligently.
Right...which is totally different from changing the map like Eric wants to do. You are allowed to adjust tactics if (more like when) players invalidate written tactics. Changing up the map lay out however is NOT allowed.