Alright, so I'm thinking up of a character in a home game in case my current one dies. I always liked the Lore Warden fighter, and so I thought maybe trying it out. It'd probably end up coming in at level 9 to, although 10 isn't that far out of the question (it's always 1 level lower then what when we died).
I wanted a fighter that was able to do a little bit more then just smash faces. Such as use combat maneuvers, maybe have a few more skills, etc.
So the following build is an attempt at making a fighter (with a two-level dip in monk) that can do just that. Trip/disarm people, have a few extra skills, and still do decent damage. In the home game, we fight lots of humanoids (it's probably bout 80% of what we fight...).
Race: Human
Stats: Not figured out yet, but we can choose between a 25 point buy OR stat rolling (4d6 drop lowest 1).
Master of Many Styles Monk of the Four Winds 2/ Lore Warden Fighter 7
Feats by level:
1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Trip, Elemental Fist, Combat Reflexes, Dodge
2: Improved Disarm
3: Power Attack, Vicious Stomp
4: Combat Expertise, Mobility
5: Ki Throw
6: Combat Patrol
7: Lunge
8: Felling Smash
9: Greater Trip
Human class favored bonus would go toward an extra skill point for the fighter. So for skills I'll be able to keep stealth, acrobatics, and perception maxed through all 9 levels. I'll be able to have 2 intelligence-based skills at a respectable level. Plus then wherever I shove the extra monk skills (maybe swim/climb/ride... just in case). This isn't even accounting for any intelligence bonus.
For weapons I'm not to sure. I'd like something with reach so that I can get some really nice reach using lunge+combat patrol. But maybe just go with a say a greatsword or even a weapon with the disarm quality to get another +2 on disarms. Between lunge and combat patrol that's already 10ft of reach, and I know the party wizard would be happy to enlarge person me.
Thoughts?
To me, this lets me plenty of trips/disarms/attacks at distance before enemies even approach. Power attacking gets me a free trip attempt, and if I trip someone using my regular attack I can get a Ki Throw off. With the combat patrol and lunge I can throw them a good distance... right into range of my reach weapon (if I'm using one).
Vicious stomp for all those free attacks on tripped people (and with greater trip, that's two AoOs).
I like it, but if there's any advice on how I can make this better or improve it, or even where to take it from here, I'd appreciate it. Also on what weapon to use too.
Thanks in advance!
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Since you have improved unarmed strike already I'd suggest making sure you have a wisdom of 13 and get stunning fist for the vicious stomp and stun your opponent when he goes down.
I thought about this for my lore warden but didnt have wisdom.
I posted my lore warden for critique in this forum earlier if you want to look at it.
Darn, if I would have known a similar thing was already posted I would have just posted there.
Didn't think about the stunning fist. I could drop the monk of the four winds archetype and get stunning fist back.
Monk of the 4 winds and many styles alter perfect self and are not able to be used together.
If you pick the second dragon style you can take the feat elemental fist though.
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1)Get rid of lunge because you can't use it with combat reflexes. Lunge only takes place on your turn. Get dangerously curious and cast enlarge person on yourself for reach.
2)I think you mean archetype master of maneuvers
3)Why not Improved bull rush to get to Improved Ki Throw? Now you throw the guy into another guy and they both fall prone and you stomp both of them.
4) Oh, dangerously curious would also allow you to cast expeditious retreat and long strider on yourself, thus increasing you movement and effectiveness with combat patrol.
My two cents anyway.
That said, thanks for opening my eyes to an interesting build concept.
If you have increased movement from the monk class long strider wont help...same bonus type. If your not high enough monk for increased movement your fine with long strider. Could also used UMD for shield spell as well.
Oops, I did mean maneuver master. Thanks for pointing it out. Darn those archetypes!
Overlooking lunge, I realized that it doesn't stack with combat patrol. Now that I think about it, since I'm not taking whirlwind attack, it really isn't all the great for what I'm trying to build. Thanks for point it out. In a way. lol.
I wasn't planning on staying in monk long enough to get the speed bonus, so the dangerously curiously idea is interesting. The monk levels were just to quickly grab the two improved maneuver feats, while snagging more skills, evasion, and other goodies.
Although I could get spring attack/whirlwind attack in a few levels. Would that be worth the two feats? Spring attack could replace lunge, and then I could snag whirlwind attack at level 10. Don't know how often I'll be able to do a lunge-whirlwind attack of trips/disarms though.
Or take improved bullrush in place of lunge, and then improved ki throw at 10. Or even replace greater trip with improved Ki throw.
How does dangerously curious let me cast spells? Or is it I get an item and the UMD it from the trait?
Thanks for the thoughts so far. The game is supposed to go up to 20 though, so there is plenty of room for more fighter feats.
Also, any ideas on weapons? Is it important to grab a weapon with the trip/disarm quality? (trip to drop the weapon, disarm to get an extra +2). I do want to pick up a reach weapon, since I can always use unarmed attacks for people that get close (or really just trip+throw them).
But then wouldn't lunge be more usefull for that. Since ki throw has to be in my threaten area, and i assume it has to be my unarmed threatened area (so not the extra from my weapon). Then I could lunge at the start, then throw them in the increased area, which then puts them back at range for my reach weapon.
gaaaahhh!
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a character ive been playing with in my head uses bull rush and aoo's to trip and knock the target out of my threatened space.
basically on there turn:
*they move into my reach (10 foot)
*trip them on the aoo
my turn:
*improved bull rush them through friendlies space, for the AOO, and keep the party out of there reach. with flurry of maneuvers, that would make him crazy powerful.
a character ive been playing with in my head uses bull rush and aoo's to trip and knock the target out of my threatened space.
basically on there turn:
*they move into my reach (10 foot)
*trip them on the aoo
my turn:
*improved bull rush them through friendlies space, for the AOO, and keep the party out of there reach. with flurry of maneuvers, that would make him crazy powerful.
Hmm... so lunge wouldn't really be needed for the extra reach on an unarmed attack. Simply bull rushing them when they come close could work too. That puts them in range of the weapon again.
Also, since Ki throw simply states "you may throw the target in prone in any square you threaten rather than it's own square... does that mean then since I'm holding a reach weapon, I could throw them into that threat range too anyways?
edit:
And with flurry of maneuvers, that could work well with the bull rush like you pointed up. Bull rush someone right next to me into reach of my weapon, then trip/disarm them.
Alternatively, I could make an unarmed trip, get two free AoOs,activate ki throw, and then make a disarm attempt. So that's three maneuvers in one full attack. (flurry of maneuvers being to make a trip and disarm, but with ki throw a trip gives me a bull rush as well).
Alright, yea, I'm going to sack lunge for improved bull rush
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Two answers for you...
Bullrush is done as part of a charge which means you need to at least 10' in a staight line before you hit your opponenet.
Dangerously curious trait gives you a +1 to use magical device skill and makes it a class skill. You still have to put ranks in it and having a good charisma helps.
Did you get a chance to look at my Lore Warden? He's posted in this thread.
"Opinions on the character if you dont mind and Thanks"
Bullrush can be done without a charge. You just get an additional +2 for charging(so +4 total). In the verbiage below you will notice as a standard OR as part of a charge.
I would dump felling smash for greater trip. This way all your buddies plus you pound on the guy for your ki throw.
Bull Rush
You can make a bull rush as a standard action or as part of a charge, in place of the melee attack. You can only bull rush an opponent who is no more than one size category larger than you. A bull rush attempts to push an opponent straight back without doing any harm. If you do not have the Improved Bull Rush feat, or a similar ability, initiating a bull rush provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver.
@jacob
I took a look at your character.Looks pretty good, and I'm checking what I can glean off of it. I was thinking about taking fast learner, but I couldn't find somewhere to put it into my build.
Is re-position working well for you? Like, is it good use?
And wow, that's a lot of skills.
Also, then it looks like I'll just switch felling smash and greater trip around. Trade out lunge of improved bull rush too. Well, probably something more like:
7: Greater Trip
8: Improved Bullrush
9: Felling Smash
Future feats are for sure improved Ki throw, greater disarm, and greater bull rush. Then probably pick up improved initiative.