Off topic some, but aren't mummies (and most undead via their undead traits), immune from being intimidated/demoralized?Undead are immune to mind-affecting effects, like morale effects, but Blistering Invective is not listed as a morale effect, or any other mind-affecting effect. It is tagged as fire and language dependent. Intimidate/Demoralize is likewise not listed as a mind-affecting effect. If the caster and the Mummy share a language, it is affected.
There are several threads about this topic in the Rules forum, like this one and this other one.
Those with Undead Traits have "Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms)." As such, how could you demoralize something immune to morale effects?
For that matter, Velkyn, "morale effects" are not a defined thing in the system, are they?
Morale bonus exists, but that's clearly not what they are referring to in that list. Compare it to all of the other items.
I'd say that being immune to "morale effects" is quite clearly the rule as intended. I would not go so far as to call it a house rule. It is rather ambiguous in its wording, but a GM would be well within their rights to call intimidate's "demoralize" application a "morale effect".
Mind-affecting is a keyword, or descriptor, in Pathfinder. Things that are mind-affecting should be marked as such; many spells and effects are marked that way. You are free to infer whatever markings you choose on abilities and powers, but that is a house rule. I do not disagree with your logic, but not all rules are predicated on logic. Game balance is also a factor.
The bestiary states that "All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects."
Intimidate, used to demoralize, causes the Shaken condition, which is a lesser form of fear.
It would seem to me that Intimidate/demoralize is indeed a mind-affecting effect that Undead are immune to.
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A halfling ninja is hidden inside the king throne room. No one knows he is in there.
Then a dragon breaks the ceiling breath fire on the guards, eats the king and start roaring around the room.
There is really no chance of the halfling become a bit shaken about the situation ? Even if he don't run away imediatelly, or be affected by the dragon aura of fear, he might make some mistakes because the great risk involved that he is totally unprepared.
This particular rule has no bearing on whether the mimic (or other undetected creatures) would be affected, however.
True, didn't mean to derail the thread.
Intimidate/demoralize states: "You can only threaten an opponent this way if it is within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you."
Blistering Invective states: "When you cast this spell, make an Intimidate check to demoralize each enemy within 30 feet of you."
No where I see does it state you must see something to intimidate/demoralize it.
As I think was mentioned earlier, it would be almost like casting a fireball and thinking it wouldn't harm something simply because you don't see it.
The DC is listed right in the rule: 10 + the target’s Hit Dice + the target’s Wisdom modifier. Doesn't matter if he's wandering around town or about to charge into the lair of a ogre. Though he can only do this 1 townsfolk at a time.
The point of Dazzling Display, is to have an area of effect demoralize. BTW, Dazzling Display's description states nothing about having to see anyone...only those within 30 feet have to be able to see you.
If said Barbarian is in a clearing surrounded by trees and bushes, and some cut-purses are hidden from the Barb's sight in the trees/bushes, but they can see him clearly...is one to think if Conan starts waving his giant two-handed sword around very adeptly (Dazzling Display)...even though he can't see them, you don't think they will be/could be intimidated?
If said Barbarian is in a clearing surrounded by trees and bushes, and some cut-purses are hidden from the Barb's sight in the trees/bushes, but they can see him clearly...is one to think if Conan starts waving his giant two-handed sword around very adeptly (Dazzling Display)...even though he can't see them, you don't think they will be/could be intimidated?I fully agree Dazzling Display could be used to intimidate undetected enemies. However, you appear to have implied Demoralize (Intimidate) could be used on undetected enemies. Instead of Dazzling Display, Conan uses Demoralize in this clearing. What's the DC?
Previously, what I meant was the intimidate from Blistering Invective could work against undetected enemies as that spell (at least the intimidate part) works much like Dazzling Display....and AoE intimidate.
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This language ambiguity is annoying and stems from writers not having a standardized way of writing rules text, so some say "enemies," some say "foes," some say "creatures," and some say "enemies." Which can be confusing if you interpret those in the most literal way. Examples:
Mirror image: This spell creates a number of illusory doubles of you that inhabit your square. These doubles make it difficult for enemies to precisely locate and attack you.
Produce flame: In addition to providing illumination, the flames can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing fire damage equal to 1d6 + 1 point per caster level (maximum +5).
Scorching ray: You blast your enemies with a searing beam of fire.
These spells really need to say target instead of enemy, as do most spells. "Enemy" is in the eye of the beholder, and almost always means "someone I want to hurt with my abilities and don't want them to hurt me," which means "a concealed assassin I don't know is there should count as an enemy," and usually means "bystanders who happen to be in the area."
Area effects (effects that say Area, or refer to a cone, line, cloud, burst, or spread) usually affect all creatures and objects in the area, unless they explicitly say you can exclude certain targets or that some things are unaffected (like holy smite, which has no effect on good creatures). Targeted effects require you to select a certain number of targets to affect, and regardless of sloppy language (creature/enemy/ally/opponent/foe) should affect the creatures you target.
Yar!
Honestly, the very first thing I thought of where this could easily come up is with the spell Prayer.
You bring special favor upon yourself and your allies while bringing disfavor to your enemies. You and each of your allies gain a +1 luck bonus on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saves, and skill checks, while each of your foes takes a –1 penalty on such rolls.
What if your party is escorting a group of refugees and get ambushed in the woods. You cast prayer to hit the ambushes, your allies, and the refugees (they deserve protection and the ability to fight back as well if things get bad). One of your allies is a doppelgänger. One of the refugees is a planted spy or assassin. Neither have revealed themselves yet, and even fight against the ambushers along side you... they may or may not turn around to attack you at some point in the fight. There is also a fey creature hiding in a nearby hollow log who hasn't decided if you are friend or foe yet (and you have no idea is even there), but is still in the area of effect and may emerge mid-fight to join one side or the other? What does Prayer do with regards to them? Does it switch from the boon to the penalty when (if) they switch, does it (the spell) know ahead of time if they will turn on you at some point during it's duration or not and base its effects on that?
In my opinion (and it really is just my opinion), of all the corner cases where the "enemy" terminology becomes an issue, the corner cases caused by Prayer are (again, in my opinion) likely the most common of them.
~P
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If a spell's description says Area, it means it affects an Area, no matter who's in that area. Frex:
Fireball: Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Fireball affects everyone and everything in the described area, even if your allies are in it.
If a spell's description says Target, it means the caster is choosing targets. Frex:
Haste: Targets one creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Slow: Targets one creature/level, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Haste and slow affect the targets the caster chooses—no more, no less.
And sometimes it does something weird, that seems to combine the two. Frex:
Prayer: Area all allies and foes within a 40-ft.-radius burst centered on you
Prayer affects an area, but it has one effect for anyone you consider your ally, and a different effect for those you consider your foes. In most cases, you'd probably default to "for the purpose of this casting, an ally is someone who is my actual ally PLUS all of the innocent bystanders, because I don't want them to take the penalty for being enemies, just in case my actual enemies are trying to attack them." But you could just as easily decide it is "for the purpose of this casting, only my actual allies are allies, and treat everyone else is an enemy, because villagers annoy me and they're in my way." Which the villagers will probably remember (and seeing as there's no save vs. the spell and they'll feel the hostile magic affecting them, they'll probably think you're a jerk).