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My Wizard just hit level 11 and I selected as one of his spells, Planar Binding. It references Lesser Planar Binding for its functionality with the difference that it can call 12 HD of Outsiders.
CASTING
Casting Time 10 minutes
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels); see text
Target one elemental or outsider with 6 HD or less
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance no and yes; see text
DESCRIPTION
Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell's range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom.
To create the trap, you must use a magic circle spell, focused inward. The kind of creature to be bound must be known and stated. If you wish to call a specific individual, you must use that individual's proper name in casting the spell.
The target creature is allowed a Will saving throw. If the saving throw succeeds, the creature resists the spell. If the saving throw fails, the creature is immediately drawn to the trap (Spell Resistance does not keep it from being called). The creature can escape from the trap by successfully pitting its Spell Resistance against your caster level check, by dimensional travel, or with a successful Charisma check (DC 15 + 1/2 your caster level + your Charisma modifier). It can try each method once per day. If it breaks loose, it can flee or attack you. A dimensional anchor cast on the creature prevents its escape via dimensional travel. You can also employ a calling diagram (see magic circle against evil) to make the trap more secure.
If the creature does not break free of the trap, you can keep it bound for as long as you dare. You can attempt to compel the creature to perform a service by describing the service and perhaps offering some sort of reward. You make a Charisma check opposed by the creature's Charisma check. The check is assigned a bonus of +0 to +6 based on the nature of the service and the reward. If the creature wins the opposed check, it refuses service. New offers, bribes, and the like can be made or the old ones re-offered every 24 hours. This process can be repeated until the creature promises to serve, until it breaks free, or until you decide to get rid of it by means of some other spell. Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to. If you ever roll a natural 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the spell's effect and can escape or attack you.
Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only to inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge. If you assign some open-ended task that the creature cannot complete through its own actions, the spell remains in effect for a maximum of 1 day per caster level, and the creature gains an immediate chance to break free (with the same chance to resist as when it was trapped). Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions.
When you use a calling spell to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type.
My question is this: Can I set the task as "Carefully Restate Mission Briefing" This would mean that I would take notes on the mission briefing and be very careful to restate my instructions particularly. However when doing this I want to know what complications I should expect at my PFS table. GEN CON GM's- I'm planning on using this there.
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We have a Seeker in the area that uses this spell liberally. It is very open to GM interpretation, so word of warning.
What he does though is compel the creature to service, using the opposed charisma check. However, he plays a fey bloodline sorcerer with like... 28-20 CHA now, so the CHA check is not that hard for him.
Another good idea may be to summon and bind a GOOD outsider, which are more likely to "like" what you are calling them for.
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My question is this: Can I set the task as "Carefully Restate Mission Briefing" This would mean that I would take notes on the mission briefing and be very careful to restate my instructions particularly. However when doing this I want to know what complications I should expect at my PFS table. GEN CON GM's- I'm planning on using this there.
Just to clarify... what you are seeking to do is have the GM re-read the opening box text "very carefully" after already reading through it once? Do you normally have a problem following the mission briefing? I could see some GMs (as well as players) being annoyed at having to go through the entire briefing again slowly after hearing it once.
My players routinely take notes during the briefing and ask for spelling clarifications- but if I went through the whole thing once (clearly, as I try to do) and then a player pulled this spell/effect and said, "now do it again, but more slowly" I would not be a happy camper. Also, re:GenCon, sometimes it is hard to finish a scenario within the time-slot allotted, and this seems like a waste of time to me.
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I see. I think that is reasonable, but it would likely still leave some wiggle room for the being to interpret precisely how to go about that mission. As far as what to expect? If it was my table:
If you bargained with the outsider (ie., spent money as planar ally or otherwise had an agreement with it), it would do it's best to fulfill your mission in the way you want it too.
If you beat it into submission, it would work to fulfill your mission, but may take little liberties within the boundries of it's alignment to grief you for effectively enslaving it. For example, if you asked the creature to rescue the princess without giving it explicit instructions on how to do so...
A CE hezrou may rescue the princess, but kill every living creature between it and her on the way to do so while bellowing out the name of it's master (you) for whom it acts.
A LG angel may rescue the princess with no loss of life, but sternly caution the princess that you have enslaved it and warn her to be wary of treachery when dealing with you.
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We have a Seeker in the area that uses this spell liberally. It is very open to GM interpretation, so word of warning.
What he does though is compel the creature to service, using the opposed charisma check. However, he plays a fey bloodline sorcerer with like... 28-20 CHA now, so the CHA check is not that hard for him.
Another good idea may be to summon and bind a GOOD outsider, which are more likely to "like" what you are calling them for.
This would be me :)
As Carlos has said, I use Planar Binding *all the time* (and in one more level will start using Greater Planar Binding). It's actually a pretty clearly-worded spell - you *bind* an outsider into service through pure magically-enabled dominance (charisma), and in principle no negotiation is necessary - so it really *shouldn't* be subject to a lot of GM fiat... but GM's hate it, so in practice, it is.
I always bind for "open service", and if I bind particularly evil outsiders (like devils or demons), I do give them very specific ground rules. Your case is certainly a very under-powered use of a Movanic Deva (a personal assistant), and it's really just going to be flavor (or it sounds like it). In general though, use of very powerful spells such as Planar Binding, Polymorph Any Object, Simulacrum and so on require what I like to call "good gaming citizenship" - remembering that the GM and the other players want to have fun, too.
Case in point: I bound a Movanic Deva for use in "Academy of Secrets". I knew my GM (the excellent Kyle Pratt) was aware of my history of using Planar Binding (John Compton had a lot of fun with my outsiders during the retirement arc), and I wanted it to "fit" in with things. I was traveling with a paladin as well (who might take umbrage at my enslaving an angel), so some role-playing was required. Ultimately, I promised the angel that I would never make it harm innocents (even though strictly I *could* make it do so - it's bound to my service), and I promised the paladin that when we were finished, I would have the angel fulfill the balance of its service providing help in Absolom's orphanages (they can cast remove disease at will).
It's a spell many GMs dread because it can be abused with impunity - there's no way for a GM to have it appear for revenge in later scenarios - but done right (meaning with agreement between GM and player), it can provide a lot of fun roleplaying (as the outsider is an NPC present).
(One recommendation - if you're just looking for a secretary/chronicler type, consider a Lillend Azata!)
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It takes a very special kind of class build (such as the 28 Cha Sorc above) to pull off a Planar Binding without some bribing involved. So in most cases the spell is balanced by the fact that you won't want to spend a lot of gp for an all scenario combatant and the fact that this is a spell that takes time to pull off (and some scenarios just don't give you it).
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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It's actually a pretty clearly-worded spell - you *bind* an outsider into service through pure magically-enabled dominance (charisma), and in principle no negotiation is necessary - so it really *shouldn't* be subject to a lot of GM fiat... but GM's hate it, so in practice, it is.
In this case, I'm pretty sure the "Binding" is referring to binding it onto your plane/magic circle, not to your service. There is no mind-affecting aspect to the spell, as it's Conjuration, so there is no magical dominance. The target still has control of their mind, but you can use your Charisma to convince it that while it's here it might like to do something for you.
Also, the spell itself notes that targets can subvert/pervert some of your requests:
Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions.
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Venture-Captain, Massachusetts—Central & West
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The spell says that once you have it bound, you use a Charisma check to get it to do what you want it to. If you fail, it can refuse to serve. Creatures called are still intelligent enough to resist unreasonable requests. I will cede that the check is a part of casting, as long as they didn't fail to break out, though. If they fail to break out, and you make your Charisma check, then they are magically bound to fulfill the request.
If the creature does not break free of the trap, you can keep it bound for as long as you dare. You can attempt to compel the creature to perform a service by describing the service and perhaps offering some sort of reward. You make a Charisma check opposed by the creature's Charisma check. The check is assigned a bonus of +0 to +6 based on the nature of the service and the reward. If the creature wins the opposed check, it refuses service. New offers, bribes, and the like can be made or the old ones reoffered every 24 hours. This process can be repeated until the creature promises to serve, until it breaks free, or until you decide to get rid of it by means of some other spell. Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to. If you ever roll a natural 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the spell's effect and can escape or attack you.
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It takes a very special kind of class build (such as the 28 Cha Sorc above) to pull off a Planar Binding without some bribing involved. So in most cases the spell is balanced by the fact that you won't want to spend a lot of gp for an all scenario combatant and the fact that this is a spell that takes time to pull off (and some scenarios just don't give you it).
There is this gem, From 3.5, but still works (though needing 4 days for Geas is rough)
Treantmonklevel20 wrote it, so i'll take no credit:
Binding the Succubus: Treantmonk's guide:
So you want to bind a Succubus, but the 26 CHA scares you? Here's what you do (lets assume you are a conjurer with a 10 CHA):
You are at least 8th level - so pony up the 4,500 and get a circlet of persuasion.
Cast Magic Circle against evil. Use Spellcraft to fortify it.
Cast Lesser Planar Binding - call the Succubus.
Cast a Geas on her first thing. "Drink a glass of water from the pitcher over there." Point to a pitcher outside the circle. Wait 4 days. :evillaugh
Cast Eagle's splendor before you return.
Now hit her with Bestow Curse. Her saves are currently at -8 (total will save -1). As long as you peirce SR you are golden (if not - cast again!). Suddenly her saves/checks are at -12
Now hit her with Cause Fear. Now she's frightened (or shaken if by some miracle she saves). Her ability checks are now at -14
Time to propose a deal. No reason to make it lovely. Ask her to serve you for the remainder of the spell - to follow all your commands, in both word and intent, to never take action that could harm you, and to give you her true name. - and she will be released at the end of the spell. This is a crappy deal for her - so you get no bonus to negotiation.
Her negotiate modifier: -6
Your negotiate modifier: +5
You should win.
If there's any doubt - go ahead and pony up 3000 gp for a Moment of Prescience scroll. It's a one shot deal - but the additional +16 to your roll makes this a sure thing.
Once she agrees -drop the cause fear, the curse, and the circle (so she can have her drink of water). She's back to normal.
Now you give her the warning. "I know your true name now - if you ever screw me over - during the duration of the spell, or afterwards - I'll use it to summon you again. I'll also cast again and summon an IMP. I'll give the imp this deal - "do whatever you want to this succubus for the duration of the spell - and I expect nothing in return.", you'll be defenseless in one of those circles you were just in, but I'll let him out of his, I expect the Imp will take the deal - I get the impression they have LOADS of built up hostility."
Preventing Revenge:
You should expect that the outsider won't be happy you Bound it. It may consider revenge. Travel to the material plane isn't easy for evil outsiders (which is why they haven't invaded). However, it may visit this world again - and it will remember you. You have options as to how to prevent its retaliation:
A) Scare it straight. Demons/Devils have no immunity to fear. If you have it's true name you can call it again and do something horrible to it. The threat of such an act (if they believe you) may deter them from attempting revenge. You do hold the superior hand in this game.
B) Finish the job. Nothing says the Demon/Devil will survive the entire Planar Binding. Since its a called creature, not a summoned one, if you kill it, it's gone for good.
In most circumstances you don't have multiple days to complete a mission, so there really isn't enough time to go through the whole binding ritual, but sickened, shaken, cursed, should be plenty, in most cases.
Sorc's certainly do it better, but with a spellbook you can make your new servant VERY mad at you, but also VERY bound to you.
ooh I forgot UMD and a wand of Ill-Omen, make them roll twice taking the lowest :)
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Not really. From level 15 onwards the Wizard can simply use Moment of prescience for a huge bonus on the opposed check. Alternatively nothing is stopping you from debuffing the trapped critter and then compelling it to agree with enchantment spells.
Yes, this is probably among the most powerful applications of Moment of Prescience. Of course, my sorcerer has to wait until 16th level.
But at 16th level, casting a persistent greater planar binding and invoking moment of prescience for the opposed charisma check (which will then clock in at +30 or so), it becomes trivial to bind a Planetar (to use one example).
Again, it comes down to good "gaming citizenship" in such cases - am I making the game more or less interesting by binding a Planetar?
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it's basically the same as binding a Glabrazeu at 11th level, I mean that thing is a reasonable challenge for your entire party by that point.
Depending on what you bind, the creature may simply defeat the scenario, FOR you. Though I do intend to bind things when I hit 11 :).
Glabrazeu isn't exactly on the list of planned bindings, unless of course, we really need a Wish!
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I think if this happened at a table of mine, and the summon was "mistreated" (e.g. commanded to do things against its alignment, abused, etc.) I'd just add it to the conditions gained column of the chronicle, and if he was local, pass around that it was there.
If he's not local it might be a while before anyone notices, but that's the reason for audits, right?
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I have been often tempted to bind a Glabrezu... but it's a demon of treachery. Just not a comfortable situation! :)
I do think it's worth mentioning what one has bound in the past to GMs, in case they should have a chance to make things interesting in the scenario ("you bound my brother!").
I think thus far I've bound a huge air elemental, a Hound of Tindalos (two, actually), erinyes, a kolyarut inevitable, a movanic deva, a bebelith, and an efreet. Should I encounter any of these, I certainly understand if they might take an interest in me ( assuming they have knowledge: local... Glabrzu have K:local +18!).
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you can always just finish the job :)
Hound Archon for lesser, and Coutal for are kind of my goto good guys.
I like SLAs, and houndy can simply look like a dog while giving the whole party "aid" at will.
Binding a group of lantern archons is also quite good, actually.
So lets talk about how to make a deal (without giving over money, or being evil) that a Glabrazeu might not seek your utter destruction.
Serve me faithfully for 5 days, then for the next 5 days you may do as you wish on the plane, so long as you avoid anyone I know.
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It takes a very special kind of class build (such as the 28 Cha Sorc above) to pull off a Planar Binding without some bribing involved. So in most cases the spell is balanced by the fact that you won't want to spend a lot of gp for an all scenario combatant and the fact that this is a spell that takes time to pull off (and some scenarios just don't give you it).There is this gem, From 3.5, but still works (though needing 4 days for Geas is rough)
Treantmonklevel20 wrote it, so i'll take no credit:
Binding the Succubus: Treantmonk's guide:
** spoiler omitted **...
"Give me your True Name."
If that isn't a "unreasonable demand" I fail to grasp what is a unreasonable demand.|
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"Give me your True Name."
If that isn't a "unreasonable demand" I fail to grasp what is a unreasonable demand.
Indeed. "Unreasonable demands" are subject to be interpreted as widely as the people sitting at a given table, so I would expect considerable table variation there.
In my personal opinion, simply demanding a true name would be considered unreasonable, and never work with a simple Cha check.
Threatening to destroy the called creature if it does not surrender it's true name might work with a Cha check however (1, as called creatures actual die if killed unlike summoned creatures and 2, if the creature actually believes you are willing and capable of doing so), but that is def an evil move that would get noted on a chronicle sheet.
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The strategy listed above is also very time consuming. In PFS, I can think of only a few scenarios that give you that kind of prep time. Usually it's the ones that send you on a boat trip. It's almost always more along the line of Drandle Dreng waking you up at 2 in the morning shouting "Good news, everybody!"
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Why would threatening to destroy a demon, an incarnation of corruption and vileness be an evil act?Yeah, how could the use of violent coercion toward the ends of gaining access to demonic power possibly be an evil act?
;)
What Jiggy said, plus:
Stumbling across a spiritually corrupted entity of evil (such as an outsider of undead), and slaying it without discourse or remorse is probably not an evil act in a high fantasy setting.
Going out of your way to call such a being to you, and then threatening it with destruction so that you can coerce some power, knowledge, or service from it is absolutely an evil act.
Does that one act make a character evil? Probably not. But it's definitely a stepping stone.
This is all just my personal view, though. All perspectives are likely valid. When I think of a "good" alignment, I think of a classically morally good hero - not the "hero" who goes around smiting devils.
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The strategy listed above is also very time consuming. In PFS, I can think of only a few scenarios that give you that kind of prep time. Usually it's the ones that send you on a boat trip. It's almost always more along the line of Drandle Dreng waking you up at 2 in the morning shouting "Good news, everybody!"
Because of this post, I shall now and for all time roleplay Drandle Dreng as Professor Farnsworth from Futurama. :P
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That would be awesome.Though I'm now imagining a sect of some good warrior deity where the high level clerics spend their time summoning evil outsiders just to destroy them.
Slowly working their way through the hordes of hell.
Yes, the Worldwound isn't enough of a threat; let's piss off the entire plane and give them a reason to invade the material realm en masse and completely slaughter us all. Fantastic idea. :/
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What Jiggy said, plus:
Stumbling across a spiritually corrupted entity of evil (such as an outsider of undead), and slaying it without discourse or remorse is probably not an evil act in a high fantasy setting.
Going out of your way to call such a being to you, and then threatening it with destruction so that you can coerce some power, knowledge, or service from it is absolutely an evil act.
Does that one act make a character evil? Probably not. But it's definitely a stepping stone.
This is all just my personal view, though. All perspectives are likely valid. When I think of a "good" alignment, I think of a classically morally good hero - not the "hero" who goes around smiting devils.
Does that not rather depend on what you do with said evil outside. Consider the adventure Waking Rune...
** spoiler omitted **
That is a factor, I agree. I personally would weigh the morality of this particular act through three lenses:
1). What being are you calling, and why?
Why have you chosen to summon a demon rather than angel to confront evil? Is it because the demon has a necessary tool for the job that the angel does not? Or is it because you don't feel like spending gold or bartering honestly for any outsider's services, and you just don't feel bad about bullying a demon?
When you employ an evil tool to do good work, does the tool taint the outcome? I don't know the answer to that, but it is worth considering - especially if you could have used a good tool instead, which you clearly could have.
2). How did you interact with the called being?
Did you choose to plead, bargain, or bully this being into cooperation? Treating other beings with courtesy, dignity, and respect for their life, even when they do not deserve it, are pretty much the hallmarks of being a morally good being.
If you choose to treat a being of evil as it probably rightfully deserves, you also demean your own humanity. I believe this famous quote is quite fitting:
“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
3). What task do you intend to put the called being too?
Is this entity going to aid you in raiding an enemy holding? Help you research a valuable asset? Cure your sick dog? Or do you call it to you strictly to siphon away it's power to enhance your own ("cast them wishes, efreet!")?
Let's suppose you want this being to storm the baddies house with you. Ok, that's a pretty fair goal...but then we have to consider it's methods. Angelus Maximus will probably aid you loyally, fighting as righteously as the situation allows for - i.e, taking prisoners, offering quarter, minimizing suffering.
Despicable Demon on the other hand can't wait to sow this kind of carange. He couldn't have prayed for a better binding. He's far more likely to pull arms out of their sockets for a thrill, and terrorize every living being he kills to their last breath.
So, all that said, I'm not saying that binding an evil outsider has to be an evil act. I'm just saying that, I'm my opinion, it's a complex issue as far as morality goes.
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Yes, the Worldwound isn't enough of a threat; let's piss off the entire plane and give them a reason to invade the material realm en masse and completely slaughter us all. Fantastic idea. :/
Just min-max life a boss, my friend - i't won't be anything you can't handle! ;)
"Aaron, go ahead an call both of those mariliths in - I can handle two at once these days!"
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Absolutely, couldn't agree more. Unfortunately on the boards there is sometimes a bit of a tendency towards "its an evil spell, you become irredeemably corrupt casting it".
Not really in this thread I admit but it has been a bit of a feature in previous ones.
You know how folks get when they think they are empirically correct. I definitely have my moments of stubbornness when I'm more than happy to chew someone's face off.
The way I handle such things I outlined above.
1). I ask the player to explain to me his goals and intended methods along the lines above in 60 seconds or less.
2). I quickly evaluate their answers based along those lines. If it's mostly noble, we're good. If more falls across the dark side line than not, then I consider it an evil act.
3). I inform them before they cast if it will be considered an evil act or not so they can fairly determine to go through with it or not.
If it is evil, and they do decide to do it, all I will do is make a note of it on their chronicle sheet. After the session I will go through their other sheets, and if I see a long line of evil acts on the sheet I'd probably contact my VC and give him a heads up.
That is where my decision making and responsibility ends in my opinion.