So this is my first actual post here, but I've read many of the guides here on various topics and found them extremely helpful!
More to the topic, I have a Pathfinder game coming up that's focused on a group of adventurers who are all part of a special military task force. Each of us has to be ranged, and so far our party consists of a Wizard Spellslinger and a Barbarian Hurler.
I was looking around for various builds for a Musket user and I found a build recommended on here for a Gunslinger (Musket Master) 5/Cavalier (Luring, Musketeer) the rest. I liked the idea a lot, but I have some questions.
What race would work really well with this? I'm leaning Human, but am open to other ideas. The campaign uses the Pathfinder PRD, so anything from the Advanced Races would be ok. I would like this character to be the "leader/face" of the group, so something that would really work to that.
Another question I have is about the orders. Many of them rely on melee attacks, threatening enemies (melee) or being attacked. Obviously this doesn't really work with ranged characters so much. Have any of you modified any of the orders to make them work? Or have you made your own? My DM is pretty open to working stuff out so I'd love some suggestions on that.
Lastly, if I wanted him to be a sort of Sniper without relying on Sneak Attacks, how should I build him? We're not going for Optimization, but something that would be fun and effective would be great!
Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated! :)
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Another question I have is about the orders. Many of them rely on melee attacks, threatening enemies (melee) or being attacked. Obviously this doesn't really work with ranged characters so much. Have any of you modified any of the orders to make them work?
That's the purpose of the Luring Cavalier archetype. You gain "far challenge".
That's the purpose of the Luring Cavalier archetype. You gain "far challenge".
I see that the far challenge replaces the standard challenge, but does that mean that the order's effect on the challenge applies to the ranged variant or that it doesn't apply at all because it's not a standard challenge?
I think I see what you mean. Having a mount would allow me better battlefield control and the mobility keeps me from being hit. I'll have to check with the DM to see if there'd be issues with having a mount.
It'd be nice if I could somehow get the Skirmish damage from 3.5 in that case. As far as I know there is not a Pathfinder equivalent, but then again I'm fairly new to Pathfinder.
In that regard, what kind of mounted combat feats (if any) would go well with a ranged character?
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I think I see what you mean. Having a mount would allow me better battlefield control and the mobility keeps me from being hit. I'll have to check with the DM to see if there'd be issues with having a mount.
It'd be nice if I could somehow get the Skirmish damage from 3.5 in that case. As far as I know there is not a Pathfinder equivalent, but then again I'm fairly new to Pathfinder.
In that regard, what kind of mounted combat feats (if any) would go well with a ranged character?
So the nice thing about mounted and ranged combat is that you can take your full attacks while while your mount moves without any feats. As long as he's not running full out there isn't even a penalty. You'll want to take either Order of the Sword or Order of the Land (from Kngihts of the Inner Sea). Order of the Sword gives you a bonus to any attack as long as you're mounted, and Order fo the Land gives you a bonus to ranged attacks. Order of the Land might be just a smidge more useful if your comapaign is going to involve multiple locations or situations where it's hard to bring a mount, but I don't know if you'll actually have access to it since it isn't from a hardcover. You also lose out a bit on the last ability from the order since the +2 to maneuvers on a charge references the Mighty Charge ability, which you give up when you take Luring Cavalier.
To be honest, given the awesome improvements you get in action economy, I'm actually a bigger fan of going standard cavalier for ranged characters, especially ones getting bonuses to their ranged combat style from multi-classing. You give up very little since your mount can bring you within range to make your ranged attacks and then dance you safely clear, and you keep the option of being able to switch-hit in a situation where lighting, enemy spells (like Wind Wall), cover, and other circumstances make ranged combat impractical. Order of the Sword is perfect for this.
Ok so I'm getting a better picture for what I want to do, but I can't decide if I should go with a musket or two pistols. I like both for their own reasons the musket having much more range while the pistols have more damage potential (5th level pistolero can deal 2d6 extra damage per shot). The Luring Cavalier's Careful Aim feature seems to let me extend the range of any firearm/ranged weapon including the Touch AC targeting.
In that case, I could use a pistol at up to 60 ft. with no penalty or 40 ft. at no penalty and targeting the touch AC of the enemy.
The musket in this case would have 120 ft. no penalty or 80 ft. Touch AC.
Would it be more effective to have two pistols and just do ride by shots or would the TWF feats be too numerous to get along with the ranged combat feats? If I decided on only one firearm would one pistol be better than one musket? I originally wanted a sort of long range support guy but one that rides through combat popping people with a pistol sounds fun too.
So the nice thing about mounted and ranged combat is that you can take your full attacks while while your mount moves without any feats. As long as he's not running full out there isn't even a penalty. You'll want to take either Order of the Sword or Order of the Land (from Kngihts of the Inner Sea). Order of the Sword gives you a bonus to any attack as long as you're mounted, and Order fo the Land gives you a bonus to ranged attacks. Order of the Land might be just a smidge more useful if your comapaign is going to involve multiple locations or situations where it's hard to bring a mount, but I don't know if you'll actually have access to it since it isn't from a hardcover. You also lose out a bit on the last ability from the order since the +2 to maneuvers on a charge references the Mighty Charge ability, which you give up when you take Luring Cavalier.
To be honest, given the awesome improvements you get in action economy, I'm actually a bigger fan of going standard cavalier for ranged characters, especially ones getting bonuses to their ranged combat style from multi-classing. You give up very little since your mount can bring you within range to make your ranged attacks and then dance you safely clear, and you keep the option of being able to switch-hit in a situation where lighting, enemy spells (like Wind Wall), cover, and other circumstances make ranged combat impractical. Order of the Sword is perfect for this.
I hadn't rethought the orders since I considered using a mount. Order of the Sword sounds perfect in that case. The only reason I'm leaning more towards the Luring Cavalier is the idea of charging (melee weapons or not) doesn't sound appealing for the character I want to make, whereas confounding enemies and later on forcing them to move towards me can give me and my team mates some interesting tactical advantages.
I think at this point I'd like to make a Pistolero/Luring Cavalier that has one pistol and then like a rapier or long sword on the side that they can switch to if needed. I could take a couple feats to balance his melee out but otherwise he'd ride around shooting enemies and buffing his teammates. What do you think?
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Ok so I'm getting a better picture for what I want to do, but I can't decide if I should go with a musket or two pistols. I like both for their own reasons the musket having much more range while the pistols have more damage potential (5th level pistolero can deal 2d6 extra damage per shot). The Luring Cavalier's Careful Aim feature seems to let me extend the range of any firearm/ranged weapon including the Touch AC targeting.
In that case, I could use a pistol at up to 60 ft. with no penalty or 40 ft. at no penalty and targeting the touch AC of the enemy.
The musket in this case would have 120 ft. no penalty or 80 ft. Touch AC.
Would it be more effective to have two pistols and just do ride by shots or would the TWF feats be too numerous to get along with the ranged combat feats? If I decided on only one firearm would one pistol be better than one musket? I originally wanted a sort of long range support guy but one that rides through combat popping people with a pistol sounds fun too.
The nice thing is that the mounted feats for ranged characters are largely optional, so you could easily choose to TWF. You'll need a few ranks in Ride, but that shouldn't be a concern. Two weapons will equal more damage but you'll be taking a -4 to each attack, negligible at later levels but painful early on, and stacking with the penalties from Deadly Aim.
Ok so I have made a decision based on the advice I got from everyone. I imagine I can't get away with making my rolls without the DM nearby so this is just an example (although the rolls were pretty good lol)
Human
Lvl 5 Gunslinger (Pistolero) Next level will Multiclass to Luring Cavalier
STR - 14
DEX - 20 (17 +2(Human Racial) +1(Lvl 4))
CON - 14
INT - 13
WIS - 13
CHA - 15
Feats
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Dodge
Rapid Reload
Weapon Focus (Pistol)
HP = 53
AC = 20 (10+5(DEX)+1(Dodge)+1(Nimble)+3(Armor))
Attack Options
Pistol (Within 30ft.) - +12 hit. 1d8+6 Dmg. +2d6 for one grit point.
Longsword - +7 hit. 1d8+2 Dmg.
Armor - Studded Leather
Not sure how much gold we'll have to start with so I may have better armor or some magic items.
Gonna focus on Bluff/SoH/Perception/Ride for skills with this class.
Anyhow, does this seem like a decent setup for combat? I know it's just a 5th lvl Gunslinger and is pretty standard but I want to make sure he'd be effective.
Solid advice there. I like the mounted feats you listed. Definitely some good synergy there. Thanks for all the help! :)