I'm wondering how exactly you are supposed to use this arcana with spell combat if you need a free hand to cast a spell. does this mean that you use said free hand to use wand instead? if so, then does that mean that any apendage you have that can hold/use wands now counts for using spellcombat so long as you are doing so with a wand?
for example: if i have wand wielder as a tiefling with the vestigial tail racial trait i should be able to cast spells from a wand held in my tail while using spell combat. most people agree with this. but what happens when i use that same setup, but put another weapon in my off hand. am i still able to use spell combat? before i picked up that 2nd weapon i met all the requirements and my off hand was utterly useless, but once i pick the only thing that changes is the usefulness of my off hand.
opinions or a link to an faq that aready exists about this would be great. i couldnt find one.
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This question comes up a lot, and I don't understand why. I have an 8th level Wand Wielder Magus and I've never seen a problem with how it is written. Can you tell me why you think it does not work?
As far as the vestigial tail, I know a 3-armed Magus/Alchemist could just wield a wand in one hand, a weapon in the other, and have his third free for spellcasting. If your tail works the same way, in that you can manipulate things just as easily as a hand could, then I would think it would work the same. If all you can do is "hold" items in your tail, then probably not.
There are also the weaponwand spell and the prehensile hair hex...
You need a free hand to cast a spell.
Activating a wand is not casting a spell.
So, you can have a weapon in one hand, a wand in the other, and spell-combat as normal. You're just jabbing the target with the wand and setting it off.
This question comes up a lot, and I don't understand why. I have an 8th level Wand Wielder Magus and I've never seen a problem with how it is written. Can you tell me why you think it does not work?
As far as the vestigial tail, I know a 3-armed Magus/Alchemist could just wield a wand in one hand, a weapon in the other, and have his third free for spellcasting. If your tail works the same way, in that you can manipulate things just as easily as a hand could, then I would think it would work the same. If all you can do is "hold" items in your tail, then probably not.
the bold part is where the issue comes in. because activating a wand does not require all the dexterity of a normal hand since spell trigger items dont need things like somatic components, but under the wand section in the CRB it states that it must be used in a hand or "What passes for a hand" thus a tail does not qualify since it cannot wield a weapon like a hand can. it can do everything but wield a weapon though, so im at a loss.
Wand Wielder specifically lets you substitute the use of the wand or staff for the spell casting, so why would a free hand still be required? The Arcana would make no sense.
Wand Wielder specifically lets you substitute the use of the wand or staff for the spell casting, so why would a free hand still be required? The Arcana would make no sense.
because the arcana does NOT specifically state that you don't need a free hand anymore. that is ASSUMED. for all we know, the intent was to use a wand in your main hand and still have your off hand empty. thats the issues most ppl have with this arcana, its not written clearly enough.
we all know that the intent was to have a wand in the off hand so that you use the spell in the wand instead of a prepared spell, but they didn't write it that way, so when trying to min/max a character build like i am doing, it because highly unclear because there are no specific texts to reference.
The problem is that in order to use spell combat you need a free hand or substitute that free hand with a wand held in it. If that wand is in your tail then you are no longer meeting the requirements of spell combat.
I Want this to work, but the description of wand wielder just isn't in depth enough to clarify. And neither is what you can and can't do with a prehensile tail. It says you can't wield a weapon, but a wand isn't a weapon and it says you CAN manipulate items. But wands state you need a hand or something that passes for a hand. Its a hit and miss all around without an FAQ.
Rules that i have found on this subject so far:
magic weapons, as well as magic staves and wands used by
spellcasters to harm their enemies. For example, a wand
of scorching ray would count as a weapon, but a staff of life
would count as a piece of magic gear.
so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action
that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell
being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however,
it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate
a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes
for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the
general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used
while grappling or while swallowed whole.
have long, flexible tails that can be used to carry items.
While they cannot wield weapons with their tails, they can
use them to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on their
persons as a swift action. This racial trait
replaces fiendish sorcery.
Your tail becomes more useful.
Prerequisite: Tief ling.
Benefit: You can use your tail to grab stowed items.
While you cannot wield weapons with your tail, you can
use it to retrieve small, stowed objects carried on your
person as a swift action.
Special: If you have the prehensile tail racial trait, you
can use your tail to grab unattended items within 5 feet
as a swift action as well as to grab stowed objects carried
on your person; you can hold such objects with your tail,
though you cannot manipulate them with your tail (other
than to put them in your hand).
and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much
like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell
that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one
hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic
components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee
weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make
all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and
can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting
time of 1 standard action (any attack roll made as part of this
spell also takes this penalty). If he casts this spell defensively,
he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls,
up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a
circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check
fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty.
A magus can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon
attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot
cast the spell between weapon attacks.
based on all of that, i could have to say that even with the Grasping Tail feat and prehensile tail racial trait, you cant actually use a wand if you are holding it in your tail because a wand HAS to be in your hand to use both because the wands activation says so, and also because it counts as a weapon when used to attack an enemy. it doesnt count as a weapon however if you are using it to cast something like cure light wounds or bull's strength, so using a spell like that in spell combat while wielding it in your tail would be acceptable, using a spell such as magic missile would not be acceptable.
but heres the shady part: a touch spell does not TECHNICALLY target the enemy. it targets the caster and charges their hand with the attack. then caster then makes a touch attack to release the energy. so would a spell like chill touch or shocking grasp count as making a wand a weapon or not?
Where is the vestigial tail racial trait from? Are you meaning Prehensile Tail trait?
i said prehensile tail, didn't i?
Sorry I didn't refresh and see your last post. You called it vestigial farther up.
Regardless of anything else, I don't see prehensile tail allowing for anything more than holding the wand. Spell combat is not the problem.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
But if you are using the wand to cast a buff, its not a weapon and can be used via the tail as a spell trigger item. This is when spell combat comes into consideration. If my hands are full and I'm activating a spell trigger wand from my tail, am I still meeting the requirements of spell combat. If so, then by all rights I should be able to do the same thing with other spell trigger items such as rings. But there are no arcana that allow this, so either paizo needs to add arcana that allow me to use other spell trigger items in the same way, or clarify that the spell trigger item must be in your hand
Weapons: This includes normal, masterwork, and
magic weapons, as well as magic staves and wands used by
spellcasters to harm their enemies. For example, a wand
of scorching ray would count as a weapon, but a staff of life
would count as a piece of magic gear.
Protection: This category includes armor and shields, as
well as any magic item that augments a character’s Armor
Class or saving throws.
Magic: This category includes all other permanent
magic items. Most rings, rods, and wondrous items fit into
this category.
Limited Use: Items that fall into this category include
alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands with few
charges. Charged wondrous items fall into this grouping
as well.
Gear: Use the amount in this category to purchase
standard nonmagical gear for the character. In most
cases, this equipment can be omitted during creation and
filled in as needed during play. You can assume that the
character has whatever gear is needed for him to properly
use his skills and class abilities. This category can also
include jewelry, gems, or loose coins that the NPC might
have on his person.
if a wand isn't used to attack the enemy it is considered a magic item, not a weapon and thus doesn't need to be held in a hand by this rule.
Activation: Wands use the spell trigger activation method,
so casting a spell from a wand is usually a standard action
that doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity. (If the spell
being cast has a longer casting time than 1 action, however,
it takes that long to cast the spell from a wand.) To activate
a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes
for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the
general direction of the target or area. A wand may be used
while grappling or while swallowed whole.
but by this rule is had to be held, which a prehensile tail can do.
see what i mean? it is highly confusing.
i know for a fact i can hold a metamagic rod in my tail and use it with spellcombat so long as i have a free hand to cast the spell, but as far as i can tell, a wand works the same as a rad does as long as im not casting a spell directly at the bad guy.
but would casting a touch spell be casting it AT the bad guy? i dont think so. from my point of view, a touch spell is pretty much like casting a buff, except that AFTER you cast the spell, you discharge it on the enemy. the spell has already been cast though, and the touch attack used to deliver the spell is not part of the casting, so by my logic you can use a wand of chill touch from a prehensile tail just like you could use a rod of cure light wounds.
Are you trying to use Wand Wielder and your tail to wield two weapons (presumably to two weapon fight)? Or are you simply wanting to hold something in your free hand?
yes, i am trying to use wand wielder to use both hands to two-weapon fight while still using spell combat
Just took a look at the weapon wand spell and it solves my problem entirely. Thanks for all the input guys.