Dying Threshold = constitution score or ½ hp, whichever is less.
Death Threshold = total HP
A creature that falls to 0 hp or below is disabled. The creature may take a single move or standard action per turn (plus any free action, such as "dying words"), but doing so causes them to lose additional hit points equal to the damage that put them at or below 0 hp.
A creature with negative hit points beyond its dying threshold is dying. Each round they have a chance to stabilize, but if they fail to do so they lose additional hit points equal to the damage that put them beyond the dying threshold.
If a creature's negative HP total is beyond their death threshold, the creature dies.
The goal here is to widen the dramatic possibilities of the disabled state, decrease the "rocket tag" effect, and to make the actual number of rounds spent dying less random (more a factor of the severity of the killing blow).
A Fighter with 16 constitution and 13 total hp takes 3 damage and ends up at -1 hp.
— His dying threshold is -6 (13 hp /2 < 16 con)
— He will lose 3 hp for each turn he acts, so he can act disabled for 4 turns.
A Fighter with 16 constitution and 40 total hp takes 12 damage and ends up at -8 hp.
— His dying threshold is -20 (40 hp /2 > 16 con)
— He will lose 12 hp per turn for each turn he acts, so he can act disabled for a single round.
A Fighter with 16 constitution and 40 total hp takes 36 damage and ends up at -21 hp.
— His dying threshold is -20 (40 hp /2 > 16 con)
— He will lose 36 hp per turn unless he stabilizes. He will only live to the end of the round.
I like that your way takes the severity of the injury into account, but I'm on the fence about the potential deadliness of it (though I do agree it gives more of the cinematic "grievously wounded hero takes one last heroic action" feel.)
I agree, I am curious to see it in action.
As with all of my variants, I am not opposed to tweaking it based on feedback.
Let me know how your method works out!
maybe instead of 1 HP bleed out, or threshold aftershock (as proposed above), which seems like a 180 degree turn in terms of lethality given the thin margin between dying and dead, how about a bleed out of 1 HP per dice from the crossing injury?
Do you mean as opposed to the RAW -1hp bleed? Because in my method it is the amount of damage you took from that last hit.
The reason is this:
Rounds you can act disabled = (constitution / final blow damage)
Rounds before death when dying = (total hp / final blow damage)
That was my goal, anyway. I wanted disabled to be a state that occurs more often and sometimes lasts more than one round, where each round you choose to act is a serious choice. This is cool because you'll have people who are basically finished on the battlefield waiting for a chance for one last attack... pretty dramatic!
The above pair of formulae could actually be the rule, instead of tracking negative HP. I'll have to think about that...
Can you use a standard action to heal yourself with magic when you are disabled?
I'd be tempted to say you take the damage while completing the action. Interestingly, this means using your disabled action to cast any spell always comes with a concentration check DC 10+Damage taken+ the level of the spell. That's pretty dramatic too!
One of the most disappointing things I have experienced while gaming is realizing I don't have enough action to get to a dying ally, pull out a potion/scroll/whatever and administer it before the ally is dead dead. Yes, a Heal check to stabilize is possible, but some characters are more likely to fail than succeed that check.
One of the most disappointing things I have experienced while gaming is realizing I don't have enough action to get to a dying ally, pull out a potion/scroll/whatever and administer it before the ally is dead dead. Yes, a Heal check to stabilize is possible, but some characters are more likely to fail than succeed that check.
An alternative to flat out dead would be nice, even if it were difficult to pull off. Maybe a Fort save with a DC that ramps up each round.
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so, under this variant, instead of losing 1 HP for Acting While Disabled (AWD) or Failing To Stabilize (FTS), you lose X HP, where X = damage from the injury you sustained that put you At Death's Door (below 0 HP).
the math you have for "death threshold = the lesser of either of these two values," while containing precedent in the rules (see Feinting), is wonky.
why not just change that 1 HP to X HP? i do not see the reason for the extra complication.
why not just change that 1 HP to X HP? i do not see the reason for the extra complication.
Making that change alone would only increase the rocket tag nature of the dying rules. At mid-high levels, most attacks deal at least 10 damage, which means nobody would ever have the dying state for more than two rounds before dying.
I'm trying to expand the variety of states that you hit with zero HP. Sometimes you'll be dying, but sometimes you'll be disabled for a few rounds.
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the math still seems difficult to remember unless a DM 'prepares' it like a spell prior to a game they anticipate to be pretty dangerous.
anyhow, in that case, why not dispense with the whole threshold math and just say that positive HP is healthy, 0 or less is disabled and/or dying, up to your negative HP which is dead.
(working with the X = damage sustained from the injury that put you at death's door):
you are Disabled if you are at exactly 0 HP (normally), or upon making a successful Fort save immediately after sustaining an injury that crosses you over the border into <0 HP (so long as it doesn't kill you outright). if you fail this save, you are unconscious and dying, and must make a stabilization Fort save at the end of every round or re-sustain a like amount of damage (X damage).
...not sure if Fort DC should be = X, or 10+X...
this eschews the sticky math, but maintains the long haul to death by defining the 'threshold' in terms of passed/failed fortitude saves rather than numeric distance between multiple statistics. does this address the 'rocket tag' issue without stirring up low-level play?
I like the extension of the disabled condition, but as others have mentioned, the thresholds are a bit fiddly. Will comment more when I've had time to take a closer look.
anyhow, in that case, why not dispense with the whole threshold math and just say that positive HP is healthy, 0 or less is disabled and/or dying, up to your negative HP which is dead.
Hm. I agree that simpler is better. I tend to start out overcomplex and pare it back from there.
But at levels where character may have Constitution Score > Hit Points will be wonky. You won't have a disabled condition, you'll go straight to dead.
Maybe that makes sense. I was trying to avoid it for some reason. What do you think?
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ok, say i got a 1st level 10 CON wizard who Favors the skill point. My life range is from 6 HP to -6 HP. so, from full health:
i can take 5 damage no sweat.
if i take 6 damage i am disabled, no roll necessary. if i act i go unconscious, and must at the end of the round make a save to stabilize (at 0 HP) or sustain 6 damage and die.
if i take 7 damage, i must save or pass out. if i make it i'm disabled. if not, i'm dying, and at the end of the round i must save again to stabilize (at -1 HP) or sustain another 7 damage and die.
if i take 12 damage i die.
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also, the more i think about it, especially in this wizard's case, Fort DC should be X (not 10+X).
I think maybe the bleed rate should be half of the final blow damage.
Characters with the die hard feat should go into a coma instead of die.
Some GMs insist on no res. rules, so I would strongly recommend comas.
I'd cut out the dying threshold and go with something like this:
When dropped below 0 hp, you are disabled (staggered and must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+negative hp, or maybe 10+final blow to match stabilization DC) vs. unconsciousness at the end of each turn) and dying (bleed equal to half final blow, Fortitude save (DC 10+final blow) to stabilize at the start of each turn). You die when you reach negative your total HP.
It's not all there--not sure what happens if you take a strenuous action after stabilizing--but it offers the opportunity to spend several rounds disabled and conscious. It also addresses one minor issue I had with your first draft, which was that a character in the disabled state could take no actions and remain conscious indefinitely.
[...]I would strongly recommend comas.
Roleplayers don’t like to play comas. They feel it limits their range.
... Misquote of "Soapdish".
On topic, you could always do 1 point of bleed per 5 points of damage, or some variation thereof.
It also addresses one minor issue I had with your first draft, which was that a character in the disabled state could take no actions and remain conscious indefinitely.
I kinda felt that was a feature, not a bug.
I can think of several shows/movies where a mostly-defeated badass bides their time on the battlefield until they can make one last attack effectively.
I see a lot of interesting variants in this thread, but I think I'm going to test this out pretty much as presented in the OP, but with half bleed.
If anyone wants to try their own version, especially with Fort saves added, I'd be keen to hear the reports.