apart from a few small tablet/cell phone games, I have not played a video game since I started playing Pathfinder, nor really missed playing them
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Probably because EA is tying their hands.
I utterly detest DA2 as a follow-up to Origins. I don't think it's a coincidence that it came after EA started taking a more active interest in the company.
To be fair though, ME3's multiplayer was really fun IMO.
DA was the best "classic fantasy" RPG Iv'e ever seen. ME 1&2 were games I love so much I don't have the courage to buy ME 3 yet because Iv'e heard terrible things about it and I don't want to ruin the series for myself :(
That being said, BioWere are so fantastic at what they do, they'll easily get another chance from me with DA 3 (though I really would have liked them to do a RP game of a different genre - superheroes spring to mind, or even a near-future game with unnatural elements). Besides, DA 2 is not even a bad game. It's just seven miles below the qulity of DA, which still means it's got a few miles to go down before hitting rock bottom. Gameplay is fun and there are some neat ideas that could have worked really well if the game would have been less rushed, I think.
When I can get off my hate train, I can usually force out these words about DA2:
DA2 is a good game. The combat is fun, it's got good graphics, a solid story, and surprisingly good voice acting.
If it were a standalone title I'd be all over that m$~+*$&&%+~&.
But it wasn't. It was a sequel to one of my favorite games of all time. If not my single number 1 favorite game.
And it took everything that made the first one great, and either stripped down, scaled back, or outright removed every lick of it. The story had lower stakes, the combat was less tactical and more button-mashy, the world was smaller and so much more confining and contained to one city, where the previous game had a whole COUNTRY to explore, and it seemed like even player choice was trimmed down (and no, not talking about character creation). They even cut down on the number of teh phat lootz, which is never a good thing in an RPG (in my very personal opinion)
The only saving grace it had as a sequel was, IMO, Hawke. And more the IDEA of Hawke than Hawke himself. Hawke made a decent protagonist, and to be honest I'm long over the "heroic mime" bit. The move to a fully voice acted protagonist with his own backstory was both a good and bad thing, and while I think it could've been done better (Shepard was done a lot better than Hawke) it was IMO a step forward for the game and the character could have been fleshed out or could have been used as a stepping stone to more unique, focused protagonists.
Unfortunately this step forward was marred by a half dozen steps backward.
I'd also say get ME3. It's a good game, besides the last 5 minutes (much like Assassin's Creed 3, really), and that last 5 were mostly fixed in a free patch.
I don't have the courage to buy ME 3 yet because Iv'e heard terrible things about it and I don't want to ruin the series for myself :(
Mass Effect 3 has an 89% Metacritic review score. As long as you suspend any desire you might have to go into the game hating it, you will enjoy the hell out of yourself.
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When I can get off my hate train, I can usually force out these words about DA2:
DA2 is a good game. The combat is fun, it's got good graphics, a solid story, and surprisingly good voice acting.
If it were a standalone title I'd be all over that m#*&+!%!~+*+.
But it wasn't. It was a sequel to one of my favorite games of all time. If not my single number 1 favorite game.
And it took everything that made the first one great, and either stripped down, scaled back, or outright removed every lick of it. The story had lower stakes, the combat was less tactical and more button-mashy, the world was smaller and so much more confining and contained to one city, where the previous game had a whole COUNTRY to explore, and it seemed like even player choice was trimmed down (and no, not talking about character creation). They even cut down on the number of teh phat lootz, which is never a good thing in an RPG (in my very personal opinion)
The only saving grace it had as a sequel was, IMO, Hawke. And more the IDEA of Hawke than Hawke himself. Hawke made a decent protagonist, and to be honest I'm long over the "heroic mime" bit. The move to a fully voice acted protagonist with his own backstory was both a good and bad thing, and while I think it could've been done better (Shepard was done a lot better than Hawke) it was IMO a step forward for the game and the character could have been fleshed out or could have been used as a stepping stone to more unique, focused protagonists.
Unfortunately this step forward was marred by a half dozen steps backward.
I'd also say get ME3. It's a good game, besides the last 5 minutes (much like Assassin's Creed 3, really), and that last 5 were mostly fixed in a free patch.
I can agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I think two of the major things DA2 did wrong was:
1) promising to focus on a plot that might be constrained in space to one city, but moving over a decade in time, and then failing miserably to deliver on that front. If the focus of the story is about how the city changes over time in response to your actions as a player, then why is it always the same? the homeless crazy person who roams the market asking for change is standing in exactly 1 spot and saying the exact same sentence the entire game. All of the character look exactly the same even though they should age during the decade. Everything is static, maps are re-used, actions don't have enough consequence, etc.
2) Not having a focused story line. It's like each section of the game could be called "stuff Hawake did during year number X". Hawke just kind of stumbles from trouble to trouble, and by the end of the game, it doesn't even matter how big the last battles are becauses they are just one more in a chain of barely related events Hawke finds himself at the center of.
What DA2 did VERY well is introduce some less typical characters to a fantasy story. Can't remember the names now but I liked the guardswoman, the dwarf and the elf quite a lot. Many of these are not as resonant as the usual BioWere crew, but really it's good to see something new every now and then.
Also, while I like the shift to a conversation wheel with voice acting, I think Hawke's voice (like everything else about the character) was monotone, blend and uninteresting.
I really hope DA 3 would be a return to form by Biowere. I really, really want it to.
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I don't have the courage to buy ME 3 yet because Iv'e heard terrible things about it and I don't want to ruin the series for myself :(Mass Effect 3 has an 89% Metacritic review score. As long as you suspend any desire you might have to go into the game hating it, you will enjoy the hell out of yourself.
I think I just need some time to cool of... I am absurdly invested in the franchise and in order to approach the new game with anything resembling sanity, I'll have to wait maybe one more year.
To demonstrate my meaning, I'll share my past with the ME franchise with you: after 20 minutes playing the first game I was hooked and willing to say I'd found the best BioWere game ever. During the first game, after the part where
I had to chose which of my friends to sacrifice while chasing Seren
I ended up not being able to sleep during the night, and realized Iv'e chosen wrong, so the very next day I opened the game wanting to change my decision... only to find out that I had no saves far enough back to change it. Without hesitation I restarted the game.
I played the first game two and a half time - the aforementioned reboot, plus finish once as a paragon and once as a renegade. Then my computer crushed, and my saves were lost, so I played the game twice more before ME 2 came out.
Then I played ME2 four times (twice with each path)just because I enjoyed it so much.
So when initial responses to ME3 were very negative, I became terrified... and to this day I'm still waiting to be ready for this.
As I noted above, I hope to regain my sanity in the upcoming year and get the game.
DA was the best "classic fantasy" RPG Iv'e ever seen. ME 1&2 were games I love so much I don't have the courage to buy ME 3 yet because Iv'e heard terrible things about it and I don't want to ruin the series for myself :(
The original endings were so utterly horrendous that I still am unable to even think about them without getting angry, more than a year after the fact. The extended cut made the whole deal a bit more palatable, although still distasteful. But BioWare kinda-sorta redeemed themselves with the Citadel DLC, which was a love letter to the characters and an implicit apology to the fans for getting it so wrong with the ending of the game... without actually further compromising their vision for how they wanted the game to end.
I would recommend that you get the game ( with the Citadel DLC, the rest of the DLC's are superfluous ), there is a lot of very good story and character work in it.
But in general I still feel like someone on Youtube described what happened. Like a good friend of mine came into my house and stole my shoes. The trust I once had in BioWare is broken and it is very difficult to get back to what once was.
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I don't have the courage to buy ME 3 yet because Iv'e heard terrible things about it and I don't want to ruin the series for myself :(Mass Effect 3 has an 89% Metacritic review score. As long as you suspend any desire you might have to go into the game hating it, you will enjoy the hell out of yourself.I think I just need some time to cool of... I am absurdly invested in the franchise and in order to approach the new game with anything resembling sanity, I'll have to wait maybe one more year.
To demonstrate my meaning, I'll share my past with the ME franchise with you: after 20 minutes playing the first game I was hooked and willing to say I'd found the best BioWere game ever. During the first game, after the part where
I had to chose which of my friends to sacrifice while chasing Seren
I ended up not being able to sleep during the night, and realized Iv'e chosen wrong, so the very next day I opened the game wanting to change my decision... only to find out that I had no saves far enough back to change it. Without hesitation I restarted the game.
I played the first game two and a half time - the aforementioned reboot, plus finish once as a paragon and once as a renegade. Then my computer crushed, and my saves were lost, so I played the game twice more before ME 2 came out.
Then I played ME2 four times (twice with each path)just because I enjoyed it so much.
So when initial responses to ME3 were very negative, I became terrified... and to this day I'm still waiting to be ready for this.
As I noted above, I hope to regain my sanity in the upcoming year and get the game.
99% if the game will utterly blow you away, that's how awesome it is. It's totally worth playing even if the ending leaves much, much to be desired.
Because "Artistic integrity"@Scott, again with metacritic...those scores mean nothing. Only User score matters.
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I don't have the courage to buy ME 3 yet because Iv'e heard terrible things about it and I don't want to ruin the series for myself :(Mass Effect 3 has an 89% Metacritic review score. As long as you suspend any desire you might have to go into the game hating it, you will enjoy the hell out of yourself.I think I just need some time to cool of... I am absurdly invested in the franchise and in order to approach the new game with anything resembling sanity, I'll have to wait maybe one more year.
To demonstrate my meaning, I'll share my past with the ME franchise with you: after 20 minutes playing the first game I was hooked and willing to say I'd found the best BioWere game ever. During the first game, after the part where
I had to chose which of my friends to sacrifice while chasing Seren
I ended up not being able to sleep during the night, and realized Iv'e chosen wrong, so the very next day I opened the game wanting to change my decision... only to find out that I had no saves far enough back to change it. Without hesitation I restarted the game.
I played the first game two and a half time - the aforementioned reboot, plus finish once as a paragon and once as a renegade. Then my computer crushed, and my saves were lost, so I played the game twice more before ME 2 came out.
Then I played ME2 four times (twice with each path)just because I enjoyed it so much.
So when initial responses to ME3 were very negative, I became terrified... and to this day I'm still waiting to be ready for this.
As I noted above, I hope to regain my sanity in the upcoming year and get the game.
99% if the game will utterly blow you away, that's how awesome it is. It's totally worth playing even if the ending leaves much, much to be desired.
Because "Artistic integrity"@Scott, again with metacritic...those scores mean nothing. Only User score matters.
I really liked ME3 other than the ending. I agree with the 99% of the game being awesome. Funny enough I also enjoyed ME3 multiplayer as well despite how vocal I was against the idea originally.
On user scores, most user score systems are garbage. You have a bunch of peeps registering multiple accounts to give a game they have never played a zero or a ten. There is absolutely no accountability on user scores. A good scripter can log over 20 user scores in fifteen minutes. There may be exceptions but I have not seen one.
Metacritic may not be perfect but it is better than most of the alternatives.
@Scott, again with metacritic...those scores mean nothing. Only User score matters.
Literally the exact opposite is true.
User scores are not a reliable measure of a game's quality. At all. The only thing that they tend to be a (somewhat) reliable measure of is how controversial the game is.
And, sure, Mass Effect 3 was controversial. There's nothing the gaming community loves more than discovering something new to bust out the pitchforks over.
Or maybe the games original ending was so bad that fandom recoiled collectively in disgust. Only because many hate something, it doesn't diminish their reasoning.
Or maybe the games original ending was so bad that fandom recoiled collectively in disgust. Only because many hate something, it doesn't diminish their reasoning.
Being so overwhelmed with rage/disgust over five minutes of a video game not living up to expectations is pretty solid evidence that one's reasoning is diminished beyond salvaging.
Look, whatever. We had this discussion and you know my stance. Considering that literature professors and the like had the same visceral disgust as myself and many, many others and there are a ton of very well thought-out analysis about why the endings were so atrocious, I think my reasoning is on sound footing.
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Or maybe the games original ending was so bad that fandom recoiled collectively in disgust. Only because many hate something, it doesn't diminish their reasoning.Being so overwhelmed with rage/disgust over five minutes of a video game not living up to expectations is pretty solid evidence that one's reasoning is diminished beyond salvaging.
Is there something wrong with getting invested in a story? If you don't consider video games to be inferior to books or movies, I think you could easily see why people can get really upset about something in them. Imagine reading the entire harry potter books to find, in the 7th book, that It Was All A Dream harry had, sleeping in his tiny closet room in the Darsle'y house. Surely, you'd get upset and never read anything by JKR ever again.
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Look, whatever. We had this discussion and you know my stance. Considering that literature professors and the like had the same visceral disgust as myself and many, many others and there are a ton of very well thought-out analysis about why the endings were so atrocious, I think my reasoning is on sound footing.
I would very much like to read some of those, if you could kindly direct me to them.
Here are some links. Utter spoilers for Mass Effect 3, of course:
Post from a literature professor.
Video analysis of the endings.
The general reaction to the endings.
Of course Hitler has to weigh in, too. :p
And that is only a small, small part of it. There was an excellent round-up thread on the BioWare Social forums, but with the sucky way their search engine works and the amount of thread churn, it has been impossible for me to find it.
In any case, don't let yourself get taken in by Scotts typical attitude of dismissing criticism as mindless and "beyond reason". There was an incredible amount of reasoning behind declaring the endings to be absolute dross, by many, many intelligent people.
Maybe for you. But for me that is like making the world's awesomest three tiered cake and then peeing on it as a finisher.
Except in this case Mass Effect 1, 2, and 98% of 3 will be extremely enjoyable to play.
Peeing on a cake makes the experience unenjoyable from the first bite.
And, on top of it all, no one peed on anything, metaphorically or otherwise. They put out an ending that didn't live up to some people's expectations. Acting like that's equivalent to peeing on your birthday cake just makes you look immature.
Look, whatever. We had this discussion and you know my stance. Considering that literature professors and the like had the same visceral disgust as myself and many, many others and there are a ton of very well thought-out analysis about why the endings were so atrocious, I think my reasoning is on sound footing.
I don't care how much well thought-out analysis there is for the endings. That's not the issue. The issue is a gaming community so obsessed with its own sense of self-importance that it's willing to act like an entire trilogy of games was ruined because the ending didn't quite live up to what they thought it would be.
It has literally resulted in people being scared off from playing the final game! They're depriving themselves of 40+ hours of truly fantastic gameplay on the chance that they might be ticked at the last five minutes. That's bonkers.
Is there something wrong with getting invested in a story?
Of course not.
I was invested in Mass Effect's story. I have been for years. I consider it the most important science fiction franchise of our generation.
Yet somehow I managed to not act like Bioware shot my puppy when they made some arguably lackluster design decisions in the final few minutes of the game.
If you don't consider video games to be inferior to books or movies, I think you could easily see why people can get really upset about something in them.
I don't react that way to books or movies, either.
Imagine reading the entire harry potter books to find, in the 7th book, that It Was All A Dream harry had, sleeping in his tiny closet room in the Darsle'y house. Surely, you'd get upset and never read anything by JKR ever again.
Not even close. I might criticize the end of the final book, but it would have zero impact on the fact that the first six books in the series was responsible for a significant amount of my imagination fuel and inspiration for the better part of a decade, and it wouldn't do a damn thing to my excitement for whatever she had lined up next.
And we're not even close to "it was all a dream" with Mass Effect 3's ending.
I've already said that the ending is now palatable enough to play the game. Doesn't change the fact that the original version was actively insulting to the fans. I know you define yourself by being against the mainstream, but in this case the majority of the fans had it right.
Also, I think the best analogy is eating a fine steak in a restaurant, only to find out in the end that the cook had crap on his hands when he prepared the meal. Changes the entire experience.
An the only reason for it to remain was 'artistic integrity'
Psh, yeah, everyone knows video games don't qualify as art, and thus the people who create them have no right to defend their decisions on the grounds of creative vision!
I swear, gamers.
I've already said that the ending is now palatable enough to play the game. Doesn't change the fact that the original version was actively insulting to the fans.
"Actively insulting"? As in, what, they literally called you names? Made fun of your mom?
No, you just didn't like the ending and calling the people responsible for it "actively insulting" is just a pretense that allows you to justify treating them like trash.
I know you define yourself by being against the mainstream,
Yes, agreeing with the overwhelming consensus of professional game reviewers makes me such a hipster.
The only thing I'm "against" is the immature, reactionary, echo-chamber-fueled behavior the gaming community decides to exhibit every time it doesn't get its way.
but in this case the majority of the fans had it right.
No, they didn't.
Also, I think the best analogy is eating a fine steak in a restaurant, only to find out in the end that the cook had crap on his hands when he prepared the meal. Changes the entire experience.
Oh good lord.
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Yeah, you can keep your hipster card, it's okay, Scott. Whatever.
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Maybe for you. But for me that is like making the world's awesomest three tiered cake and then peeing on it as a finisher.Except in this case Mass Effect 1, 2, and 98% of 3 will be extremely enjoyable to play.
Peeing on a cake makes the experience unenjoyable from the first bite.
And, on top of it all, no one peed on anything, metaphorically or otherwise. They put out an ending that didn't live up to some people's expectations. Acting like that's equivalent to peeing on your birthday cake just makes you look immature.
I am going to interject in a conversation I have no part of just because I think I have an old joke that is a better metaphor than peeing on a cake.(Spoilering the joke because its a bit gross, though there is nothing actually inappropriate in there)
Shrugging it off he sets into his meal, only to notice the other man doesn't seem to be touching his chili. Finally, he says 'I really wanted some chili. If you aren't going to eat that, can I have it?' and the other guy slides it over.
Digging in he gets about half-way down and his spoon comes up with a mouse at which point he immediately finds himself throwing up back into the bowl. The man next to him claps him on the shoulder and says 'Thats how far I got too.'
If you end something with an experience that infuriates or upsets the person, it is going to sour them on all of it. It might be the best apple you've had in your life until you find a worm, but then how tasty it was before no longer matters. That is just human nature.
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An the only reason for it to remain was 'artistic integrity'Psh, yeah, everyone knows video games don't qualify as art, and thus the people who create them have no right to defend their decisions on the grounds of creative vision!
I swear, gamers.
Well, many of the fans seem to not exactly believe BioWere for playing the "this is our art" card. Seems like a rather suspicious way to defend something BAD. Iv'e been told what the original ending for the ME series was planned to be,
it was supposed to be about finding out the using the Mass Effect to power up the relays that enable an intergalactic empire is slowly consuming away the energy from the universe. That's why, in ME 2, in the mission where you recruit Tali, the sun she is studying is dying so quickly - it's been sucked from energy. That is energy is not conserved but slowly lost.
Which leaves Shepard with a HUGE decision - stop the reapers and save all life in the galaxy, or stand aside and let the reapers destroy civilization in order to protect the universe itself.
Frankly, for a science fiction story like ME, there could be no possible better ending that this. A twist to the plot, a morally ambiguous, enormous decision, that gives a great sci-fy explanation to everything.
I don't know where it went wrong, but it did.
By the way, I don't think BioWere is lying - somehow they must have actually thought the new ending was better. I believe them because they never tried to defend DA2 like they did ME3. So it's not as if they hide crap behind walls of words - they actually do seem honest.
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An the only reason for it to remain was 'artistic integrity'Psh, yeah, everyone knows video games don't qualify as art, and thus the people who create them have no right to defend their decisions on the grounds of creative vision!
I swear, gamers.
You make a product that is supposed to please people, so that they pay you money for it.
If a guy makes an awesome chair that is beautiful to look at and incredibly comfy, but when you sit long enough on it a small nail pricks you in the rear. Damn strait i would go back to the guy to fix the problem.
Yeah, The revised endings still suck for me. They disregard EVERYTHING that i accomplished thus far for 4 endings from which i don't like any.
EDIT: Also I don't believe i artistic integrity when i do something for money. You make something so someone would buy it. If they don't like some aspect of what you made, you change it.
Well, many of the fans seem to not exactly believe BioWere for playing the "this is our art" card. Seems like a rather suspicious way to defend something BAD. Iv'e been told what the original ending for the ME series was planned to be,
it was supposed to be about finding out the using the Mass Effect to power up the relays that enable an intergalactic empire is slowly consuming away the energy from the universe. That's why, in ME 2, in the mission where you recruit Tali, the sun she is studying is dying so quickly - it's been sucked from energy. That is energy is not conserved but slowly lost.
Which leaves Shepard with a HUGE decision - stop the reapers and save all life in the galaxy, or stand aside and let the reapers destroy civilization in order to protect the universe itself.
This makes zero sense, and was not being considered as a potential ending.
1) We knew as early as ME1 that the Reapers made purposeful use of the relays to perpetuate a cycle.
2) We knew as early as ME1 that the Reapers purposefully left some species alive to cause that cycle to repeat.
3) If their design purpose was to prevent the relays from sucking the universe dry, they could have destroyed the relays, or actively culled populations before they started using relays to minimize their energy draw.
4) Instead, the Reapers' actions ensured that the relays would be used perpetually.
Even a cursory level of attention to the universe makes it clear that this was never going to work as an explanation.
Frankly, for a science fiction story like ME, there could be no possible better ending that this.
One that could only be called half-baked, and charitably at that?
A twist to the plot, a morally ambiguous, enormous decision, that gives a great sci-fy explanation to everything.
That's exactly what the ending was. A massive twist ("We planned for this all along!"), a morally ambiguous, enormous decision ("Destroy all Reapers, but end all non-organic life as well; Control the Reapers, and become an all-powerful tyrant in the process; or end the Reaper threat, but merge all organic and machine life, altering the makeup of every creature in the galaxy."), and a solid sci-fi explanation ("The Catalyst is really just a control station for the relays that we designed as a contingency for the day someone proved they could unite the galaxy to confront a shared threat.")
The only difference is the one they used was actually coherent.
(For anyone curious, the actual leak of the other options on the table involved a discussion of how biotic use - not the relays - was draining the galaxy, and how the Reapers discovered that biotics could be used to prevent a universe collapse, and were purposefully waiting for a race of biotics perfectly suited to the task. Even the writer who leaked it - who left Bioware before work started on ME3, just in case anyone was thinking of pulling a "But he works for Bioware, of course he'd defend the ending!" - didn't think it would have been any better-received. I agree with him.)
You make a product that is supposed to please people, so that they pay you money for it.
In other words, you don't think that video games exist for any other reason than to please the masses?
Yeah, The revised endings still suck for me. They disregard EVERYTHING that i accomplished thus far for 4 endings from which i don't like any.
No, they didn't. I'm not sure why people like to pretend that this is the case.
Also, you're not supposed to like how things turn out. That's the point of moral ambiguity! It's not an easy decision, because every choice has massive downsides. It's the natural extension of the entire arc of Shepard's character, billed from scene one of the first game as a person who can make the decisions no one else is willing to make.
I don't get it. Gamers love to say, "Give us grey choices with complex outcomes because we like deep stories with interesting messages," and then when someone does it they complain that they don't like the fact that their ideal ending isn't one of the choices available to them.
EDIT: Also I don't believe i artistic integrity when i do something for money. You make something so someone would buy it. If they don't like some aspect of what you made, you change it.
So musicians cannot benefit from artistic integrity. Literature authors cannot benefit from artistic integrity. Movie directors cannot benefit from artistic integrity. Professional artists cannot benefit from artistic integrity?
Got it.
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Musicians and literature writers changed their works, as far back as 1800s if not lower, when presented with letters from fans who greatly disliked a part of the novel/music.
I like grey choices. I hate choices that make everything i accomplished thus far completely meaningless.
Video games exist to make money by pleasing the masses. Yes.
The problem with it was more that the ending came out of left field than anything, and didn't really take into account anything you'd done across the 3 games.
It was a pretty bad ending overall. But it doesn't ruin the other 99% of the game(s) by any stretch.
Guys, give it up, for Scott ME3 is equivalent to 4E in its artistic merit.
It was a pretty bad ending overall. But it doesn't ruin the other 99% of the game(s) by any stretch.
Yes, yes it does. It did ruin it for a large supermajority of gamers who did play the game.
Musicians and literature writers changed their works, as far back as 1800s if not lower, when presented with letters from fans who greatly disliked a part of the novel/music.
I just want to be clear: You actually believe that musicians, authors, and artists in general are obligated to alter their creative works when people demand that they do so?
And which people do they listen to? The angry ones? What happens if, by giving into the demands of their angriest audience, they disenfranchise an entirely different group? Are they obligated to change it again?
Guys, give it up, for Scott ME3 is equivalent to 4E in its artistic merit.
Oh, cool. I was wondering when the personal attacks would show up. Seems about right.
It was a pretty bad ending overall. But it doesn't ruin the other 99% of the game(s) by any stretch.Yes, yes it does. It did ruin it for a large supermajority of gamers who did play the game.
Supermajority? So 67% of people who played Mass Effect 3 thought the endings ruined the series? That's one hell of a statistic you're in possession of, there!
Hell, I mean, even on Metacritic's user reviews, which are a cesspool of overly-incensed gamers looking for any excuse to drop a '0' on a controversial title, the majority of user's gave it a mixed or positive review (with the vast majority of those being positive). I mean, even on Metacritic, people who hated Mass Effect 3 are in the minority.
Guys, give it up, for Scott ME3 is equivalent to 4E in its artistic merit.Oh, cool. I was wondering when the personal attacks would show up. Seems about right.
Oh, so you regard comparisons to 4E as an insult now? That's quite a swing in opinion, there. ^^
Supermajority? So 67% of people who played Mass Effect 3 thought the endings ruined the series? That's one hell of a statistic you're in possession of, there!
Hell, I mean, even on Metacritic's user reviews, which are a cesspool of overly-incensed gamers looking for any excuse to drop a '0' on a controversial title, the majority of user's gave it a mixed or positive review (with the vast majority of those being positive). I mean, even on Metacritic, people who hated Mass Effect 3 are in the minority.
At the time of the release, we had a 89% disapproval of the endings, IIRC on BioWare's own forums. We got articles on Forbes which referenced that poll, which had a sample size of over 50.000 votes. But, I know, "not representative, self-selected, blablabla." Whatever makes you feel better, Scott.
Man, you are succeeding on your own in turning me once again against BioWare, for having such lovely people defending them. Oh, well, since you are on the side of the gaming journalists, who treated enraged fans as if their man-servants had gotten uppity, you must be right.
Sheesh. Why do I even bother debating someone like you?
Oh, so you regard comparisons to 4E as an insult now? That's quite a swing in opinion, there. ^^
Oh, forgive me! I didn't realize you were a 4e fan now! I take it all back.
At the time of the release, we had a 89% disapproval of the endings, IIRC on BioWare's own forums.
Disapproving of the endings and believing that they ruined the series are two different things. I don't like peas much. I don't think that peas in my chicken pot pie ruin the meal.
We got articles on Forbes which referenced that poll, which had a sample size of over 50.000 votes. But, I know, "not representative, self-selected, blablabla." Whatever makes you feel better, Scott.
I don't need to feel better. I know that the data supports Mass Effect 3 being an excellent game. You're the one who is trying to make one poll say something it doesn't in order to give your own position some weight.
Man, you are succeeding on your own in turning me once again against BioWare, for having such lovely people defending them.
What, by providing statistics that run counter to your straight-from-the-ass numbers? How dare I.
I'm really okay with this. I don't think companies should cater to people who make decisions in the way that you do. It's a fool's errand. Thankfully, they're starting to realize this. Why should they go out of their way to try and please someone whose "loyalty" is so thin that being argued at on the internet by a fan is enough to drive them away? Hell, if my loyalty to Pathfinder were determined by the conduct of its fans, I'd have probably burned my nearly 100 Pathfinder adventures in a really impressive bonfire years ago.
Oh, well, since you are on the side of the gaming journalists, who treated enraged fans as if their man-servants had gotten uppity, you must be right.
I must be.
Sheesh. Why do I even bother debating someone like you?
I'm not sure. You should probably stop. Or at the very least calm down a notch or three.
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I just want to be clear: You actually believe that musicians, authors, and artists in general are obligated to alter their creative works when people demand that they do so?
And which people do they listen to? The angry ones? What happens if, by giving into the demands of their angriest audience, they disenfranchise an entirely different group? Are they obligated to change it again?
Yes.
When i write a novel, i give it to my friends to read, and listen to their comments, and don't get uppity and pout if they didn't like something. And if they give me a good, reasonable explanation on why something in my novel sucked, i change it.Mostly, the angriest audience are in the vocal minority. It wasn't the case with ME3. Also, obviously, people who got angry enough to write, talk and make videos about it are the people who got most invested in the story.
I'm not sure. You should probably stop. Or at the very least calm down a notch or three.
If you were capable of discussing things without using your usual tone of "I am righter than the rightest people on the planet and you are stupid", I wouldn't even have gotten angry in the first place.
Yes.
When i write a novel, i give it to my friends to read, and listen to their comments, and don't get uppity and pout if they didn't like something. And if they give me a good, reasonable explanation on why something in my novel sucked, i change it.Mostly, the angriest audience are in the vocal minority. It wasn't the case with ME3. Also, obviously, people who got angry enough to write, talk and make videos about it are the people who got most invested in the story.
Not even to mention that BioWare did listen and got the Citadel DLC out. They saved face by not completely changing the ending (a mistake of pride, in my opinion, but them's the breaks) and I am pretty sure that they will have integrated fan feedback for Dragon Age 3. But I'll wait for fan reviews this time for sure, even if they do their usual "pre-order DLC" bait-and-switch.
Mostly, the angriest audience are in the vocal minority. It wasn't the case with ME3.
It obviously was the case. There is no evidence that the majority of people who played the game hated it. And, given its tremendous (and continued strong) sales figures, Metacritic (professional and user reviews), long tail of multiplayer activity, and high rate of DLC purchase, there's ample evidence to the contrary.
If you were capable of discussing things without using your usual tone of "I am righter than the rightest people on the planet and you are stupid", I wouldn't even have gotten angry in the first place.
I'll try really hard to adopt a much wronger tone next time.
** spoiler omitted **
Obviously you are a fake, it would have to be adopted Quarians. ^^
The problem with the Mass Effect three ending, for me at least, was that BioWare lied about it. They claimed there was 18 or something different endings, all very different. Well, technically, there was that number...but it was things like whether the Husk killed the dude, or the dude killed the Husk. That was apparently an entire different ending for BioWare. They also said that there was no railroad to the end of the game, you could take back Earth a few different ways...
It also became obvious with the release of Leviathan that they'd cut out a ton of explanation to sell it as DLC, which further damaged the ending by making it difficult to understand what the hell was going on. That the info got added into the Extended Cut only made it that much more obvious that Leviathan was meant to be in there.
All told, it ended the series on a bitter note that left me very disappointed. It was bad enough that I've become much less interested in BioWare games in general. If Dragon Age III pulls the same crap for artistic integrity, then I'll probably switch over to second hand games for BioWare ones instead of buying Collector's Editions.
If you were capable of discussing things without using your usual tone of "I am righter than the rightest people on the planet and you are stupid", I wouldn't even have gotten angry in the first place.I'll try really hard to adopt a much wronger tone next time.
Dude. Less sanctimonious would do the trick. I am not even going to bother to debate the rest of the stuff, you would only deflect to topics which you were less likely to lose on (as always), because they are less clear than the narrative fail which was the original point of contention a few posts up.
Eh, my fault for letting myself run after the strawman instead of staying on topic.