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Greetings Ladies and Gentlemen!
I'm looking for some advice: We all know the mechanic about getting foes shaken via intimidate. There are enough tools, to do that. Shaken is a nice debuff on its own, but how can a character get the most out of it?
Lets say, we have a 10th level character:
What comes to my mind is starting 2 levels of cavalier with the order of the cockatrice. This provides a +2 to hit vs. demoralized targets and a (weapon independent) Dazzling Display for a standard action, aside from martial weapon proficiencies.
The following 8 levels are filled with the Thug/Scout Rogue. This is also no secret. We are able to get people shaken for more rounds and let them become frightened.
Good feats to pair with this concept are Intimidating Prowess, to have the STR modifier count for intimidate - and Strenght will probably our main stat.
Cornugon Smash lets us intimidate on the fly as a free action, when we power attack people. Also nice to stack shaken rounds to let people become frightened.
The last thing, I could imagine, is Shatter Defenses. Hitting people flat-footed means, we reduce their defenses and are able to sneak.
Getting a bite attack, we can attack once more, sneak once more.
To summon things up: We demoralize people fairly easy with Dazzling Display or Power attacks. This gives us +2 to hit, free sneaks and debuffs them.
But I'm not sure, if we can find more things, to utilize shaken stuff more. Also, I'm unsure about the frightened condition. Isn't annoying to run for their foes all the time, instead of just full attack them, while they are debuffed?
Also, I'm interested, if there is a mechanic, that let me stack up shaken via demoralize to debuff panicked?
Sorry for my english, hope you still get my point!
Greetings and thanks in advance!
Naz
A Barbarian with Greater Fiend Totem can skip the intimidate rolls against all non-evil victims.
Your 10th level Advanced Talent could be Crippling Strike. That's an extra -1 attack -1 damage for every sneak attack you land.
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My main demoralization focused character is actually a bard, using a perform skill for intimidating with Versatile Performance. Blistering Invective is a level 2 bard spell that makes it work on all enemies within 30 feet at once, and deal 1d10 fire damage with a chance of them catching on fire. The demoralization kicks in even if they make their save vs the fire or avoid the whole thing with spell resistance.
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From what I posted in another thread, edited a bit more:
Here is what I have in mind for my character:
Foulspawn Tiefling Thug Rogue
Skilled (Racial Trait) - +2 to Intimidate/Knowledge (Religion)
Blade of Mercy (Religion Trait) - No penalty for non-lethal slashing attacks, +1 to non-lethal damage (Setup for Enforcer feat)
Dominator (Regional Trait) - +2 to Intimidate to Demoralize
Frightening (Thug Archetype ability) - Shaken duration increases by 1 round using Intimidate to Demoralize. If shaken for 4+ rounds, can convert to Frightened for 1 round
Monstrous Mask (Base Feat) - +5 to Intimidate against Humanoids
Decent Charisma of 16 (+3)
3 CHA
2 Skilled
4 Rank 1 + Class Skill
2 Dominator
5 vs Humanoids
Level 1:
+11 Intimidate to Demoralize
+15 Intimidate to Demoralize Small Creatures
+16 Intimidate to Demoralize Humanoids
+20 Intimidate to Demoralize Small Humanoids
Level 2:
Rogue Trick -> Combat Trick - Enforcer
Level 3:
Switch to Viking Fighter Archetype
Base 3 - Skill Focus (Intimidate) - +3 to Intimidate
Fighter 1 - Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Level 4:
Viking Archetype - Frightening - Demoralize as a Move Action
Fighter 2 - Dazzling Display
Level 5:
Switch to Inquisitor, stay Inquisitor
Base 5 - Ancestral Scorn - Evil Outsiders Sickened/Nauseated when Demoralized
Stern Gaze - 1/2 Inquisitor Level (min 1) to Intimidate
Level 7:
Base 7 - Tribal Scars (Bear Pelt) - +6 HP, +1 Fort, +2 Intimidate
Level 9:
Base 9 - Persuasive - +2 to Intimidate/Diplomacy
So at Level 10, with some appropriate gear:
Stats:
4 - CHA (+2 Level)
2 - Skilled
13 - Rank 10 + Class Skill
2 - Dominator
6 - Skill Focus (Rank 10)
4 - Persuasive (Rank 10)
3 - Stern Gaze (Inquisitor 6)
2 - Tribal Scars
5 - Monstrous Mask (vs Humanoids)
Gear:
1 - Cracked Pink and Green Sphere Ioun Stone (Intimidate)
5 - Maiden's Helm
2 - Bear Pelt of the Bonebreaker
1 - Headband of Alluring Charisma
Total:
+45 Intimidate to Demoralize
+49 Intimidate to Demoralize Small Creatures
+50 Intimidate to Demoralize Humanoids
+54 Intimidate to Demoralize Small Humanoids
To successfully Demoralize a creature to Frightened via the Thug Archetype, you will need to have at least +10 against at creatures ability to avoid demoralization:
(10 + Enemy Hit Dice + Enemy WIS Mod)
Accesories to the Build:
Cruel Weapon Enchantment - When the wielder strikes a creature that is frightened, shaken, or panicked with a cruel weapon, that creature becomes sickened for 1 round. When the wielder uses the weapon to knock unconscious or kill a creature, he gains 5 temporary hit points that last for 10 minutes.
Wand of Blinstering Invective - 30ft. Intimidate Spread, 1d10 Fire Damage, DC 14 Reflex or catch on fire. SR can negate fire, but not demoralization.
Strategy:
Walk in, Wand of Blistering Invective to Disperse, dealing damage and demoralizing enemies. Next round if there is someone near, Move action to Demoralize, standard action to attack. Repeat strategic demoralization of strong enemies, allies pick off weaker enemies.
Bonuses:
- Much stronger on Humanoids (+5)
- Evil Outsiders will be Nauseated from the sheer roll of the Demoralization check (d20+45 vs 10+Enemy HD+Enemy WIS Mod).
Weaknesses:
- Constructs
- Oozes
- Plants
- Vermin
- Undead
- Creatures that has immunity to mind-affecting effects
The Unnatural Presence trait lets you use Intimidate to demoralize on animals and vermin. So there's that. The Boar Style feats also reduce intimidate to a move action and give you another way to intimidate for free while attacking. Viking fighter looks pretty awesome actually.
There's been some debate about demoralizing undead, I think as long as they are not MINDLESS undead you can do it.
I think too, that sometimes using Frightened will be not what you want to do, but the option is there, and it's a good option. If your Intimidate is high enough and you walk into a room where you get ambushed by a bunch of little guys, or your squishies are being engaged, making the enemy flee for a round can be really really useful. Just Dazzling Display and watch them all run. Sometimes you'll want them nice and grouped up, but, options are what it's all about right?
As far as a race, I'm thinking of Oni-Spawn. Yeah, they take a penalty to CHA but they get a bonus to STR and Intimidate, so that helps a bunch. Plus they really fit the Unnatural Presence trait (which I honestly wouldn't leave home without, being able to intimidate two more varieties of normally un-intimidatable creatures for the price of half a feat is pretty darn nice.)
A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
That's a lot of effort to purpose build for a couple of -2's. What am I missing?
It's with the rogue archetype Thug that it gets really good. You're able to trade 4 rounds of shaken for a round of frightened, which means they HAVE to flee from you if possible. So it's useful crowd control.
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Moreover, if you have something that can hit a whole group, for example Dazzling Display or Burning Invective, you can pretty much prevent a round of attacks from the enemy.
As for Oni-spawn vs Demodand-spawn, I chose Demodand because it had no penalty to CHA, only to INT, which as a Rogue base, you still gain much more than any other class. The CON and WIS bonus helps suppliment the saves that would be weak for a Rogue that switches to Fighter. The Bear's Endurance 1/day is a nice thing to have as a backup plan when you enter into the fray to Dazzling Display.
Oni-spawn still has its perks. STR and WIS bonuses, which still helps with the saves and increses damage, while the Alter Self 1/day pushes more damage by giving you a STR bonus for entering into a Medium-sized creature. However, due to the situation that you have to be in the fray as a rogue, as well as losing some CHA, which in turn will change the whole layout of your point-buy system, Demodand is what I would prefer.
Kyton-spawn would also be an option, but to push something that would drop WIS and a spell-like ability that would be in place of an Intimidate, it is kind of iffy. If you do dip into the Viking/Boar Style set to gain Demoralization as a Move Action, then you can try Intimidate as Move, Web as Standard, but it is a 1/day.
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If ur a Human/Assimar u can pick up the Terrorizing Display feat to buff ur allies as well.
I currently am playing a character like the one you wish to play and it is going swimmingly. It is currently at level 11 primarily tanking for the party, well as best as one can tank in this game. The character also does decent damage but sadly only against multiple enemies. Its single target damage is alright but nothing in comparison to that of our 2h and archer fighters. Atm i only have the shirt at +2, the necklace at +1, ring at +1, cloak at +1, Headband at +4, and weapon at +1 with all of its other enchantments. The build bellow though is my end game plan for it and its math for the most part.
-Race / Class-
Half - Elf / Fighter - Lore Warden, Rogue - Thug
-Stats (20 pt)-
STR 28 (Base 15)(+2 racial)(+5 leveling)(+6 item)
DEX 20 (Base 14)(+6 item)
CON 10 (Base 10)
INT 13 (Base 13)
WIS 10 (Base 10)
CHA 20 (Base 14)(+6 item)
AC 41 (+ an addition 4 from combat expertise and an additional 5 from defending for a total of 50, also + 10 more from Offensive Defensive)
Touch 21
Flat - Footed 30
-Class / Feats-
R01 EWP Whip, Dodge
R02 Talent Weapon Training (Weapon Focus Whip)
R03 Whip Mastery
R04 Talent Offensive Defense
F05 Mobility, Spring Attack
F06 Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack
R07 Dazzling Display
R08 Talent Strong Impression (Intimidating Prowess)
R09 Shatter Defenses
R10 Talent Combat Trick (Lunge)
R11 Skill Focus Intimidate
R12 A Talent Improved Evasion
R13 Persuasive
R14 A Talent Entanglement of Blades
R15 Improved Feint
R16 A Talent Feat (Greater Feint)
R17 Skill Focus Bluff
R18 A Talent Skill Mastery
R19 Deceitful
R20 A Talent (w/e u want)
Traits = Bully, Defensive Strategist
-Gear-
+5 Defending Holy Ghost Touch Whip
+5 Mithril Chain Shirt
+5 Shield Cloak
+5 Ring of Protection
+5 Natural Armor Necklace
Dusty Rose Prism (Ioun Stone)
Belt of Physical Might (Str/Dex)
Headband of Alluring Charisma
-Misc-
Character performs a full-round action intimidate to demoralize all enemy targets within a 30ft radius then proceeds to attack with Whirlwind Lunge Attacks that apply Offensive Defense upon all targets or Entanglement of Blades depending on situation. For single targets move action with a whip attack or full-round action intimidate with full attack next round. Intimidate at cap level is d20+48 (20 ranks +3 trained + 6 skill focus + 4 Persuasive +5 Cha +9 Str +1 trait) and bluff is d20+38 (20 ranks +3 trained + 6 skill focus + 4 Deceitful +5 Cha).
How does Dazzling Display prevent a round of attacks from the enemy?
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How does Dazzling Display prevent a round of attacks from the enemy?
The thug archetype allows the character, when making an intimidate check, to demoralize an enemy to become frightened for 1 round instead of being shaken.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo---rogue -archetypes/thug
Okay, got that. Thug. Not bad. I can see how that archtype makes sense to build for. ...the others - not so much. And - thanks.
nvm, they all work I suppose.
That link is busted, Esper.
A thug with Bleeding Attack would be kinda fun. Frighten an enemy so they have to spend their actions running away, and make them bleed out while they run.
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Usage of the Sap Master/Knockout Artist feats in combination with Enforcer means you could make them shaken for a long, long time.
Alternately, a Thug dealing nonlethal with high crit range weapons and Enforcer has even more ways of rendering an enemy frightened, on top of the sickened condition from Brutal Beating. That also opens up Sneaking Precision and Critical feats to add even more debuffs to your melee attacks.
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A Thug Rogue is an Archetype of a Rogue. Similar to a Zen Archer or a Invunerable Rager Barbarian.
SunsetPsychosis, you can choose to grab that, which is nice, but there are some times that you can not get into position to do Sneak Attacks, like guys with Uncanny Dodge, which can be a bummer to wait something off. Though that extra damage from the Sap Adept or Knockout Artist is nice to do at times.
Imbicatus, note that Dazzling Display is a Full-Round action. This is why I suggested to use a Wand of Blistering Invective, or just cast it yourself. This way, you can move into position and hit as many enemies as you can, including doing some damage.
blackbloodtroll, unless you are hitty-hitty with your thug/inquisitor/etc, you just may need only that 1 level dip into it. Level 2 gives you evasion and a Rogue Trick that can be converted to a Combat Trick or Ninja Trick. If you are pushing the Level 3 Thug to do some damage or such, you can try pushing that Rogue Trick -> Ninja Trick to obtain Pressure Points to do some STR/DEX damage on that sneak. As for your Inquisition, I forgot all about Inquisitions in my build, though Imbicatus' idea of the Conversion Inquisition can might help on the Will Saves as well.
Don't forget the new Omen trait from Ultimate Campaign.
Omen: You are the harbinger of some future event. Whether this event bodes good or ill, you exude an ominous presence. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Intimidate checks, and Intimidate is always a class skill for you. Once per day, you may attempt to demoralize an opponent as a swift action.
Also, try to get Enlarged. Many of your enemies will be size medium and a +4 to Intimidate when Large is pretty nice.
If you are a half-Orc, it's worth the investment in Orc Trail Rations. +2 to Intimidate if you eat nothing but these. Listerine not included.
So a level one Inquisitor gets: +3 as a class skill, say +1 from Charisma, +1 skill rank, +1 from Inquisitor Bonus, say +3 from Intimidating Prowess or Skill Focus, +2 from being a half-orc, +1 from the Omen Trait, +2 from the Orc Rations:
Total at 1st level: +14 to Intimidate. If he has the Plant domain he can Swift Action Enlarge and it can now be +18. Decent at 1st level.