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Now, as a preface to this post I must admit that I have never played with psionics or even looked at them, however I have heard about them. From what I hear it basically revolves around an alternative casting system that utilizes a point based system rather than the traditional Vancian (sp?) system. With that in mind it appears to me that Paizo is steadily leading up to that system with some of the recent(ish) classes that have been released and Mythic and other systems they have released. Gunslingers for example have grit points to determine the fun little "extra"(for lack of a better term)stuff they can do. Samarai have resolve and Magus has arcane pools, Even the Monk and Ninja have ki for their super fun "extras", all point based systems. From what I have heard of Mythic, Mythic characters will have a "Mythic Point" pool from which to draw their mythic powers. Just some food for thought for those who are imptient for Paizo to officially release Psionics (or psychic magic). I think they are working on it and it is on the horizon, they're just slowly leading up to it so that it won't be a complete change to their system.
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It' possible. Psionics has always been a very odd system that really splits the player/DM base. Some people love it, some people hate it, (generally about 50/50) and other are undecided. The original Psionics was a system that sort of worked like a mutant special power, just something odd you where born with, very much like a 3E SLA, typically used a number of times per day. It later became another system that used Power Points, somewhat similar to how Spell Per Day works if you broke them down so that each spell level know = a number of spell points and you where a spontaneous caster. You might have 5 Power Points, be able to use 3 Powers (spells) as you saw fit, and once you ran out of Power Points, you where out of "spells".
A few things really set Psionics apart (and to many far above) spellcasting.
1.) unlike vancian spellcasters, you where not at all limited to being required to cast only a few high level abilities and stuck with your lower level crappier spells. If you wanted, you could simply just cast all high level powers all the time. It would cost you more, but with the way the game actually works with Levels and CR encounters, that might actually be a lot more efficient.
2.) Psionics have all of the strengths of arcane spells, (flashy, powerful, etc. . .) with few of the limitations. But the real issue is that they do not conform so much to the base assumption of what a power should be able to do, or how it should be restricted to fit into the Power Level range the way that Spells generally are. Psionics also tended to allow you to do things that spells specifically could not do, such as target armor or shields for direct damage. It led to a lot of abuse.
3.) most of the base game line assumes Magic, so most monsters have either Arcane or Divine spellcasting, or use non-Psionic Spell-Like Abilities by default. Attaching Psionics to the core rules, even if it does have variations for Psionic versions of monsters was a mess. Especially if the base assumption was NOT that Magic and Psionics where the same, (so that Spell Resistance also applied to Psionic Powers and Psionic Resistance also applied to Magic). If that is not true, than Psionic characters basically have a free pass against the vast majority of the monsters they will ever face, because they are all going to have SR and not PR. Elves immunity to magic sleep does not apply to Psionics, etc. . . It's very skewed in Psionic's favor.
4.) Another huge complaint that Psionics, as a system had was that it had a lot more variety than spells. For the most part, the only way for Spellcasters to change their spells up was through Metamagic, and most of the time that required it to be prepped that way in advance. Most powers simply came with built in Metamagic-like effects that didn't require you to spend Feats to be able to do, and did allow you to do things that you couldn't even do with Metamagic sometimes. The simple ability to be able to pick on the fly if you wanted to blast someone with Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Force, or Sonic Damage (all from a single Power, not by picking from multiple Powers prepped for the day) was leagues ahead of how Magic Spellcasting worked.
Paizo has said multiple times that they are interested in doing a book about Psionics at some point in time, (like Epic Level play it's been on the back burner since before the CRB was released), but it will not use the Power Point system, and be exactly like Vancian Magic. Another issue is that Psionics really lacks a place in the game. Oracles and Sorcerers (and Witchs, Summoners, and Alchemists for that matter), already fill the niche that Psionics even arguably fits, and this has always been true. Besides simply saying for fluff that your caster (or even Monk) is "psionic" is probably the way to go.
That all being said, it wouldn't surprise me if there where some mention of Psionics on the way. I probably wouldn't expect it t be a full new system, but rather an article similar to what has already been published (in the Golarion Campaign Setting), and more along the lines of guidelines on how to use existing material flavored as psionics.
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They've also said that when they do do Psionics the continent of Vudra is where it would be from on Golarion. This leads me to believe that it will happen if they ever want to fully flesh out Golarion, otherwise they would have a whole continent that will have absolutely no support and as we know, that is not how Paizo operates.
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Like I said, I'm not for or against psionics, I just feel like all the point based systems that are in place already are a good lead up to an alternate form of magic that utilizes points instead of spells per day. I wanted to make sure this thought got out into the universe, in case some day it happens I can say I called it ;)Personally I think from the name alone psionics should be purely mental, attacks that cause confusion, paralysis, etc. and not actually be able to do energy damage or "physical damage" as such, but should be more designed to target a creature's mind as oppossed to the body. Also some telekinesis would probably fit.
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It' possible. Psionics has always been a very odd system that really splits the player/DM base. Some people love it, some people hate it, (generally about 50/50) and other are undecided. The original Psionics was a system that sort of worked like a mutant special power, just something odd you where born with, very much like a 3E SLA, typically used a number of times per day. It later became another system that used Power Points, somewhat similar to how Spell Per Day works if you broke them down so that each spell level know = a number of spell points and you where a spontaneous caster. You might have 5 Power Points, be able to use 3 Powers (spells) as you saw fit, and once you ran out of Power Points, you where out of "spells".
A few things really set Psionics apart (and to many far above) spellcasting.
1.) unlike vancian spellcasters, you where not at all limited to being required to cast only a few high level abilities and stuck with your lower level crappier spells. If you wanted, you could simply just cast all high level powers all the time. It would cost you more, but with the way the game actually works with Levels and CR encounters, that might actually be a lot more efficient.2.) Psionics have all of the strengths of arcane spells, (flashy, powerful, etc. . .) with few of the limitations. But the real issue is that they do not conform so much to the base assumption of what a power should be able to do, or how it should be restricted to fit into the Power Level range the way that Spells generally are. Psionics also tended to allow you to do things that spells specifically could not do, such as target armor or shields for direct damage. It led to a lot of abuse.
3.) most of the base game line assumes Magic, so most monsters have either Arcane or Divine spellcasting, or use non-Psionic Spell-Like Abilities by default. Attaching Psionics to the core rules, even if it does have variations for Psionic versions of monsters was a mess. Especially if the base assumption was NOT that Magic and...
The 'built-in metamagic' in powers is nothing more than how spells scale with level, only psionic characters have to pay extra. For example, a magical fireball and its psionic equivalent (Energy Burst dealing fire damage) both deal 5d6 damage when a character gets them at level 5. 5 levels later, however, the sorcerer is dealing 10d6 damage with his fireball, and probably attaching a metamagic feat to it. The Psion, on the other hand, has to pay an extra 5 points to deal the same amount of damage, and doing so prevents him from adding an actual Metapsionic feats--because those require paying additional power points, and at 10th level, he can spend no more than 10 on any one power.
Psionic/Magic transparency *is* the default assumption of the psionic rules, so 3 is not, in fact, a problem at all.
I have no idea where you're getting the idea that Powers aren't balanced on the same 'assumptions of what a power can do'. Many powers are literally identical to spells, except that they scale up by spending more power points. Yes, Psions can cast Charm Person and Charm Monster from the same power, but casting the Charm Monster version requires expending sufficient power points that you're effectively using the same spell slot Charm Monster would occupy if you were a wizard. not to mention the many things wizards can do that Psions simply can't--Illusion and Necromancy in their entirety, to name two off the top of my head. Psionics is better at blasting, but it is really no stronger than Vancian casters--indeed, probably weaker and more balanced overall.
Many powers, especially of the psychokinetic (direct energy damage) types, have four energy types built right in. No spell asides from limited wish, miracle and wish - that I am aware of - has that kind of flexibility built in. I don't really count shadow conjuration and shadow evocation as they have significant limitations that balance their inherent flexibility.
I suppose this inherent flexibility could be considered a fair trade for the damage dice themselves not scaling to ML. Many (back when) considered this a more-than-fair trade as a psion could unload quite a few full-ML powers per day even when compared to Sorcerers.
In effect, psionics is, or comes across as, a variant spell-like ability system with 'special effects' and substantial adaptability. For all the 'transparency' (PR = SR, dispellable, etc), powers are inherently Silent, Still and Eschewed by comparison to spells. While this is somewhat less of an advantage in PF than it was in 3.5, 2 levels of inherent metamagic for virtually every 'spell psionically cast' is a considerable one when combined with many powers' flexible on-the-fly energy type adaptability (more no-cost metamagic).
I hope it's not Vancian. Why even bother if they're like Wizards only with different fluff? Then again, the only class I really want is the Soulknife...
Paizo has said that if they put out a psionics book it will be psionics is the same as magic system.
This is also part of their reluctance to put out a psionic system - because if they get it wrong and psionics doesn't feel different to magic then there will be a lot of goodwill lost, by a sizeable portion of people who like psionics and they won't buy the book.
Then you have the no psionics in my fantasy game people they will kick up a stink, they the same people as the no guns, no space ships, no traveling to WWI earth to fight tanks, kind of people and they won't buy the book.
Then there is the DM who buys stuff for his game and he has both types of players from the above they aren't going to buy the book because neither is going to use it.
Me I loved 3.5 psionics and once you and your GM to understood the rules, there was no way it was a game breaker or a glass canon, it was a little more flexible.
The 3PP company that puts out the pathfider version of Psionics does a very good job. I hope tha Paizo will go with those rules instead of going vancian on psi and making it bland and uninspiring.
I think that with everything Paizo does they will take their time to make sure it works properly and innovative at the same time. The problem with 3.5 Psionics at least from what I heard, my group never saw one over third level, is that the classes were either way Op or useless.
There is also the problem with fitting into the world. If you try to shove them into a world where they haven't existed before then you have problems. I remember a Dragon article that suggested that psionics be decedents of a race that came from the same plane as mindflayers. This sort of works but only if you've planned a place or a time for it like Paizo has with Vudra
Paizo has said that if they put out a psionics book it will be psionics is the same as magic system.If I recall correctly, it was James Jacobs that said that, and it wasn't an official statement of company policy so much as it was his opinion about what he'd like to see happen.
Correct. However, considering he's the creative director of the company, has a lot of sway in what they do, and has in his very open and straight-forward "Ask James Jacobs Anything" thread never given any hint that Paizo will embrace the power point system, we can probably consider the two synonymous for this matter. Which makes sense, since why would they retread territory that has already been done by WotC and Dreamscarred Press several times over rather than innovate? Paizo's good at innovation, let's see how Psychic Magic turns out.
If you want a sneak peak at psionics, look at the new module The Dragons Demand. Each of the two new creatures introduced have a decidedly psionic flavor to them. One has a special ability called Id Insinuation, the other has a special ability called Psychic Blast. Sound familiar? These are probably really good examples of James Jacobs idea of how psionics should be treated within Pathfinder. Full Psionic rules may not be too far in the future, especially if the AP starting in February does more, if what I think is going to happen is true. Most Pathfinder Psionic content seems to be tied into the Dark Tapistry somehow, and isn't that where the AP is rumored to be going?
I could have swore that one of the Devs said they did not plan to release anything for psionics because the 3pp that dropped a few books on it did such a good job.
I love psionics, ever since I fully read the rules to them I find the the preferred mode of casting. They always have a risk of burning too hot and dying out before the end of the day, but a lot of added flexibility and your low level spells actually scale properly.
If you do use them, make sure to pay attention to the rule that you can never augment your spells to a higher PP cost than your manifester level; I think most people that think they are overpowered overlook this rule.
I think they should just buy Ultimate Psionics off Dreamscarred Press, add and tweak a few things to their liking, slap a Paizo label on it and call it a day. lol
Of course this won't happen, buuuut this is what Ithink they should do.
I have returned form the dead to take over the worl- oh, holy craaaaaap! *its head rolls off the side of the screen*
Productive necro
The devs have all said that Psychic Magic will not be based on the 3.5 psionics system. GMs who want to use a system based on 3.5 psionics in Pathfinder should use Dreamscarred Press' Ultimate Psionics. That system, however, will not be getting any support in Paizo products.
Occult Adventures will introduce a traditional slot-based ("Vancian") psychic magic system. The flavor of psychic magic will be based on 18th- & 19th century spiritualism and occultism. This is unlike the D&D psionics system, which was based on the pseudoscientific parapsychology movement of the 1960s and '70s.
I'm aware psychic magic won't be like psionic. My home groups have all discussed the topic a bit. Hence the "of course this won't happen" part. None the less, I think that's what they should do.
@Haladir I really like the pseudoscientific parapsychology flavor of psionics. Since psychic magic will not utilize the power point system, I'm glad it also has a different feel. This way, as LazarX said, we can still use both. I've no problem with magic adapting a power point system, but I would not want my beloved psionics to adapt a vanician system.
Productive necro
I'm becoming known for this, lol. I'll comment on what I stumble on no matter how old it is.