I'm a former WotC customer. I've decided I no longer want to support their company. I do however really like 4E. I know Paizo can't make Pathfinder 4e products, but if I wanted to convert it to 4e myself which books should I buy and how much time would it take to convert?
Well, uh... I think you're asking about using Golarion as your setting while sticking with 4E mechanics. This can be done, although by the standards of a 4E setting Golarion is crawling with "ritual magic".
As for how much time it will take to convert... you have a choice between simply "re-skinning" Monstrous Manual foes with new names, or doing a lot of conversion work. NPCs and monsters, you see, in Pathfinder's system use the same basic building blocks that PCs do (although they have a few options, such as monster races, that are ordinarily barred to PCs.) This differs strongly from the root 4E philosophy - that monsters/NPCs don't have to obey any of the same rules PCs do as long as they present "a challenge." The concept of solos, elites, and monsters that have tons of blast/burst/multiple-target recharging abilities doesn't necessarily translate - PF monsters, even the villains, tend to rove in packs in order to offset this.
There are certain other issues when it comes to converting PF adventures, but those will vary based on what Adventure Paths you're attempting to convert.
Yea first and foremost WHAT do you want to convert? Adventures? Setting Material? Classes? I think adventures might be attainable, in fact some of that has already been done. Check out this thread in the rise of the runelords forums 4E Conversion Blog
Bear in mind, also, that if you 'no longer want to support' WotC, you'll need a little cooperation from the players at your table. Ensure that all 4E materials purchased are acquired second-hand (used book stores, EBay, etc.) so that WotC does not profit in spite of your boycott.
And I forgot to mention that if it's the setting rather than Pathfinder's mechanics that you're interested in adopting, the Inner Sea World Guide should probably be your first Paizo purchase, as I'm told that it holds the "fluff" of Golarion. (Myself, I use Pathfinder to run Greyhawk, so I'm not much help on sources of Golarion fluff.)
lokiare wrote: I'm a former WotC customer. I've decided I no longer want to support their company. I do however really like 4E. I know Paizo can't make Pathfinder 4e products, but if I wanted to convert it to 4e myself which books should I buy and how much time would it take to convert? Buy adventure paths. You will likely spend a lot of time converting opponents. Note that you can reskin monsters and NPCs or simply substitute them if need be. Many APs are "underpowered" so you might as well use 4e's superior balance system, and elites or solos where appropriate.
You'll want to get very familiar with page 42 (for converting skill DCs and the like -- check the errata for this!!!), and you could use those DCs for impromptu skill challenges.
Traps won't take much time to convert, unless they're the complicated "drown the PCs"-style traps.
You'll have to completely redo treasure. On the other hands, NPCs don't need treasure at all. Just give 'em what's in the treasure parcel, or not, if you like.
It takes 13 on-level encounters to gain a level in Pathfinder, and 10 in 4e. Fortunately, XP is not used as a cost in either edition, so frankly you can just give PCs a level whenever you feel like it.
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Removed a couple posts. Please stay on the topic -- conversions -- and don't attempt to restart edition wars.
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Mainly I don't want to give WotC any more money, and I want to reward Paizo for being such a good company. So I'll probably start by purchasing the Inner Sea World Guide. I have a campaign I'm running right now, but it's going to span dimensions.
Right now a very powerful, think demi-god, Mind Flayer Lich that calls itself The Blue Death is trying to take over the world like it has with so many others. Its pretty much unkillable because its phylactery is the minds of its cult members, The Brotherhood of the Blue Death. So no matter how many times it gets killed it simply comes back because the world is filled with this secret cult. At some point they will acquire an airship and start dimension hopping to free dimensions from the Blue Deaths rule. At that point they will probably find themselves in Galorian.
So I'll have to see about specific adventures. I'll probably change out some of the treasure and bad guys to fit with the campaign. They will probably have to reconstruct The Blue Death's prison (they accidentally let it out at the beginning of the campaign). So several converted adventures could swap out items needed to rebuild it.
Huh, that kinda sounds like a cool campaign idea.
HangarFlying wrote: Huh, that kinda sounds like a cool campaign idea. I've copyrighted it, and may publish a system agnostic adventure somewhere. lol :)
If you're looking for a pretty durn good adaptation of the Rise of the Runelords AP, take a look at Tales from the Rusty Dragon. I helped with the channel divinity feats, and honestly love what Scott did with it.
lokiare wrote: Mainly I don't want to give WotC any more money, and I want to reward Paizo for being such a good company. So I'll probably start by purchasing the Inner Sea World Guide. I have a campaign I'm running right now, but it's going to span dimensions.
Right now a very powerful, think demi-god, Mind Flayer Lich that calls itself The Blue Death is trying to take over the world like it has with so many others. Its pretty much unkillable because its phylactery is the minds of its cult members, The Brotherhood of the Blue Death. So no matter how many times it gets killed it simply comes back because the world is filled with this secret cult. At some point they will acquire an airship and start dimension hopping to free dimensions from the Blue Deaths rule. At that point they will probably find themselves in Galorian.
So I'll have to see about specific adventures. I'll probably change out some of the treasure and bad guys to fit with the campaign. They will probably have to reconstruct The Blue Death's prison (they accidentally let it out at the beginning of the campaign). So several converted adventures could swap out items needed to rebuild it.
So you want to put this adventure into Golarion then? Obviously it would require some modifications (adding in the cult and the mind flayer) and adding in dimension hopping airships.
Well if you want to do some plane hopping in addition to the inner sea world guid you might want to pick up The Great Beyond. Its the Pathfinder Guide to the Planes of Golarion. Its OGL (3.5) but that wont make a big difference for you since you are converting to 4E anyway.
In addition if you are only looking to buy paizo products and not neccessarily interested in adventures you could go for support products instead. Maps, Pawns, Minis, Card decks, etc all are relatively system neutral. The chase cards are one of my favorite items, and they would be relatively easy to use as part of a 4E skill challenge instead of using the normal rules for chases. And obviously the map packs and flip matts are great adds to any gaming table.
Golarion Goblin wrote: If you're looking for a pretty durn good adaptation of the Rise of the Runelords AP, take a look at Tales from the Rusty Dragon. I helped with the channel divinity feats, and honestly love what Scott did with it. The PDF download links are invalid :(
I'll definitely look into that.
lokiare wrote: HangarFlying wrote: Huh, that kinda sounds like a cool campaign idea. I've copyrighted it, and may publish a system agnostic adventure somewhere. lol :) Key problem with your copyright... Mind Flayers are the intellectual property of ye olde WotC. They were labelled as "Product Identity" under the OGL, and therefore exempted. There's a reason there's no official conversion.
BillyGoat wrote: lokiare wrote: HangarFlying wrote: Huh, that kinda sounds like a cool campaign idea. I've copyrighted it, and may publish a system agnostic adventure somewhere. lol :) Key problem with your copyright... Mind Flayers are the intellectual property of ye olde WotC. They were labelled as "Product Identity" under the OGL, and therefore exempted. There's a reason there's no official conversion. Except they don't own the rights to mind flayers and its public IP from H.P. Lovecraft. Also using the GSL I can put out an adventure that includes them.
I can simply call them something else if I want since the identity is an H.P. Lovecraft creation and WotC only owns the words "Mind Flayer"
You know, if an alchemist came up with a way to turn gold into lead, I'd be less than impressed.
Heck, a lot of people play PF in Greyhawk or FR, so why not?
lokiare wrote: BillyGoat wrote: lokiare wrote: HangarFlying wrote: Huh, that kinda sounds like a cool campaign idea. I've copyrighted it, and may publish a system agnostic adventure somewhere. lol :) Key problem with your copyright... Mind Flayers are the intellectual property of ye olde WotC. They were labelled as "Product Identity" under the OGL, and therefore exempted. There's a reason there's no official conversion. Except they don't own the rights to mind flayers and its public IP from H.P. Lovecraft. Also using the GSL I can put out an adventure that includes them.
I can simply call them something else if I want since the identity is an H.P. Lovecraft creation and WotC only owns the words "Mind Flayer" H.P. Lovecraft did not create mind flayers. Gary Gygax created mind flayers several decades after Lovecraft's death, inspired vaguely by the illustration on the cover of the novel "The Burrowers Beneath" by Brian Lumley.
Please do yourself a favor, make sure to research these matters thoroughly before opening yourself up to a lawsuit.
Thank you, Evil Midnight Lurker, for saving me typing time.
Lokiare, that same basic research will reveal that Wizards has retained Gygax' (Gygax's?) creation as their IP to this day.
Hence, no Mind Flayer in Bestiary 1, 2, or 3.
If you want to make a "similar, but different" creature, remember that DnD was never in direct competition with Brian Lumley's novel, or its cover art. Therefore, a "similar, but different" creature had minimal risk of being considered a violation of Lumley's cover-artist's creation. On the other hand, you're talking about copyrighting a "similar, but different" creature from the WotC owned property in a field where you will be competing directly and explicitly with WotC.
Samsung vs Apple is a better example of what you're looking at, rather than Gygax vs Lumley.
Edit
And, since mind flayers are maintained as "product identity", you can't end-run using the GSL, either. Especially since re-skinning "product identity" is a defined violation of the GSL.
I can't really say in terms of PF specific creatures (that should be simple enough to turn into D&D 4e mechanics), but I stumbled upon a thread that's converting the current (as of July) adventure path into D&D 4e over on the Wizards forums. and it looks like a pretty solid conversion. If you're willing to incorporate a wintery setting and/or Baba Yaga to the campaign (for some reason), this might help a bit. Reign of Winter 4e Conversion
Just figure out what the CR s are and just build the encounters with the buget. This was just about the only positive I could get from 4e.
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