TPK - Thoughts and Feelings

[Akerlof]

Andrew Christian wrote:

In this case, whatever the full official ruling ends up being in Guide 5.0, I'm positive Mike will make sure that it is as unambiguous as he can make it (even if that means the current ruling stands).

At risk of putting words in Redward's mouth, that's exactly what he's asking for.

Quote:

As for spelling out in the charts, that I think might actually confuse things if you start putting a bunch of extra information on the charts for what things cost.

The raise dead spell indicates you incur two negative levels. The Core Rule Book indicates what that means.

And GM's should know that these must be resolved.

It depends on how obvious the rules for clearing conditions are in the Guide. If there is a big heading like All conditions must be resolved at the end of a scenario that details what to do about negative levels (due to damage or Raise Dead), ability damage, paladins falling, etc. in the "PFS Special Rules" section of the guide, I can see an argument for not including a note in the PP table. On the other hand, if there's a sentence indicating that a PC with any continuing conditions should be marked dead in reporting buried in the GM section under the "Dealing wih Afflictions" heading, then yes you do need to add something that an average player would be expected to see. I think it's reasonable for a player to not read the GM section of the guide until they start to think about GMing PFS games, and putting a note next to the cost of a Raise Dead is a pretty logical place to catch the attention of a player who is trying to prepare for the possibility of his character dying.

Furthermore, it should be made very prominent in the next guide because it is a significant change from the current PFS rules: Experienced players who know the Guide well will need to weed out that needle of change in the haystack of repeated verbiage. After all, the current wording of the guide is "all conditions (including death) not resolved within the scenario or module carry beyond the end of the adventure." (Page 23-24) The only mention of ability damage is in relation to diseases that result in an ability score of 0.

Finally, it's not all that obvious a ruling. I would personally prefer to sit down with a player who says "I got raised last week but didn't have the money for the Restorations, so I've got some negatives," to "I got raised last week, so all I have for gear is this club and sling, but hey, at least I don't have any negative levels!" (I have a feeling that the player who was too cheap to buy his 7 WIS fighter a restoration made enough bad decisions that he would be frustrating to play with in normal circumstances.)

This is a big enough change, and one that can result in character death, that it needs to be made very obvious for both new and experienced players.

[Kyle Saltz]

As for TPK. A good GM should try to foreshadow a major battle or prepare some players with the reality of death. I do believe in personal and social responsibility. If players want to be foolish then they get what they get. Some rolls are just unlucky. I have implemented a hero point system. Where every game session you can reroll one roll. Or save it and they can stack. People doing above and beyond the call of duty in gaming are also awarded a hero point. This has helped with people just being unlucky on a roll that could end a character or stall the general advancement of the game. I try to lead a mature gaming session that holds players responsible. If those ideas helps anyone then that's great. The major focus is that everyone has fun. If you can do that then everyone wins.

[Chris Mortika]

Kyle, just so I understand: you implement hero points for Pathfinder Society games?

[nosig]

Chris Mortika wrote:

Kyle, just so I understand: you implement hero points for Pathfinder Society games?

he has no stars so I would guess not. 10 GM games would be one star...

I'm guessing he wondered in here from the regular boards, and doesn't realize he's in the PFS one.

[The Earl of Gray Park]

Chris Mortika wrote:

All conditions, including attribute drain that otherwise doesn't have any effect, needs to be cleared by the end of the session or else the PC is declared dead.

Chris, I had a GM at PaizoCon tell me both negative levels couldn't be cleared at the same time and that the next scenario would have to be played with one negative level unless the GM of that next scenario would let me clear the one remaining negative level at the beginning of that next scenario. The GM listed the remaining negative level on my chronicle sheet as a condition gained even though I was willing and able to have it removed.

So now what?

[Bbauzh ap Aghauzh]

That is totally wrong. Not sure where the GM got that idea. Perhaps that you can only do a restoration per week? But time between scenarios is ambiguous.

Don't worry about it. Locally here we will let you cure that one before your next session. A gm error of this magnitude will not make your character unplayable or dead, as long as you have the wherewithal to clear it before your next session.

[Sin of Asmodeus]

Just last night I walked the line of tpking a group in rise of the goblin guild. Dice went against the group in the alchemist room and within two rounds most everyone was in negatives.
Since this was a new table that had six but went down to four the two who were dying and the one who surrendered I took alive and ransomed back to Shelia Heidmarch for shiny things. Plus I kep there cure light wound sticks.
better than letting three people walk away dead I think.

[WoofboyX]

BigNorseWolf wrote:

If something drops that many of your party that quickly you grab a paralyzed person and haul ass out the door.

I recently got to be on the receiving end of a TPK. It was a combination of a dumb mistake, 1st level characters, and a succession of REALLY unfriendly dice rolls.

I played a ranged rogue. Gnome. We made the mistake of chasing a young yeti only to meet MOM. Now, we might have survived that but MOM, on a claw claw bite against our Paladin on the first attack got a CRIT, CRIT, Hit for Max, Crit for Max, Crit for near max. No more paladin in one round.

The rest of us were squishies or near-squishies. It was a sad slow "I know we're dead and now I just have to watch it happen". I missed with my bow 4 consecutive shots, all terrible die rolls (I think my high roll was an 8). If I had gotten 2 we might have lived. :( I knew I couldn't run from it and expect to get away. It was MUCH faster than my little gnome legs. I COULD have made it if I had just bailed the second I saw what was going to happen, but I knew and liked everyone at the table so I figured "well, we're all in the soup together, somebody stir please."

On the 5th round, I was the last person standing, and then it tore my face off.

The sad part was, this character was a port of one of my favorite long-time characters from 3.5. It was my second scenario playing that char. No way to rez anyone in the party. The GM felt awful.

We opted not to continue the second 1/2 of the scenario with pre-gens. Instead we left and had a mad character remake and all weekend gaming session. :)

The result. Maximo Lizardo, gnome sorceror, amateur stage magician, pyromancer (fire elemental bloodline, professes to be the distant relative of a gold dragon).

Level 3 about to be 4 as soon as I get my lazy self in gear and apply the most recent chronicle sheet.

[Ferious Thune]

Illeist wrote:

But yes, this module (the first layer of Thornkeep) has no such alteration.

Ah. That explains why the guy running it locally did a round of First Steps to get everyone to 2nd level before running the first part.

[Silbeg]

Sin of Asmodeus wrote:

Just last night I walked the line of tpking a group in rise of the goblin guild. Dice went against the group in the alchemist room and within two rounds most everyone was in negatives.

Since this was a new table that had six but went down to four the two who were dying and the one who surrendered I took alive and ransomed back to Shelia Heidmarch for shiny things. Plus I kep there cure light wound sticks.
better than letting three people walk away dead I think.

SOA, I think you did a great job handling that situation. There really is no reason that in many cases TPKs have to happen. If it makes more sense for the bad guys to ransom the characters off, at least those that are living, they probably should do that. assuming, of Course, but the reasonably intelligent creatures. Unthinking (or hungry) undead, animals, other things like that, probably just kill you if they have the chance. But humanoid creatures, which are thinking, and can find a way to gain advantage from what could be your otherwise deaths, I think they should do that. To me, that is just being a good GM.

Congrats on a job well done!