Underwater creatures attacking on board characters.

[Bavollio Frallino]

Hello,

I looked at the core books and on the web but didn't get a real answer for this. Here the situation.

I'm gonna make my party run through Treasure of Chimera's Cove Module. At some point, they will be aboard a fairly small ship and a giant octopus will attack. The octopus has a range around 20 with its tentacules (If I remember correctly. Books aren't around for now).

If I check the underwater combat rules, it says that :

"Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land."

and

"A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land".

The octopus with remain in water for the combat so we can assume that it is completly submerged. But that would mean that the party can't defend againt the creature (unless they go underwater). Thing is, the octopus is going to raise its tentacules above sea level in order to attack. (Which, I suppose, we can consider being at least chest deep and therefore getting only improved cover). But the tentacules are only out of the water during the attack so... The octopus still remains completly submerged while its the players' turn.

I thought that readying an attack action that triggers when (a tentacules is within reach) could permit to attack the octopus. Thing is that attacking a single tentacule would probably be not that effective. Even inflicting the equivalent of the octopus full HP of damage on a single tentacule won't kill the creature for sure. And what would be the tentacule AC anyway ?

I'm not a fan of attacking the "arm" (tentacule in this case) of a large creature with reach cause that would create a precedent and I already see things like "I'm attacking the dragon's tail when he's making the tail sweep" or whatever.

So, how you guys think such a combat should be done ?

[Nefreet]

In order to attack the Octopus's tentacles the characters would need the Strike Back feat. Since it's a pretty niche feat, this is unlikely to come up.

They will simply have to come up with some other tactics. Perhaps retreat further into the boat, or dive under water. Summon a water elemental.

It sounds like it's supposed to be a challenging encounter, so, challenge them ;-)

[Bavollio Frallino]

Thanks Nefret. At least I know they can go up that easy on the octopus.

Land creatures are pretty affected by such situation. Is there any penalty for a underwater creature for attacking creature on land ?

[Nefreet]

Not that I'm aware of.

There are a few low-level encounters in some PFS scenarios where the party is either on a boat or a dock and gets attacked by a creature from the water. Even without reach, they still have improved cover. I ran a subtier 1-2 game where the critter had an AC of 22 just from being in the water! It wasn't really that scary of a fight on paper, but boy did they have trouble with it.

Their only choice was to jump in. They still suffered a -2 penalty to hit the thing, and dealt half damage because nobody had a piercing weapon, but at least it wasn't effectively -8.

What you could do, though, is give them "higher ground" for being in the boat. I'm sure they'll take a +1 wherever they can.

[Bavollio Frallino]

Thanks Nefreet. You're great help :)

[Barachiel Shina]

Personally, I allow characters to still attack something below the water from above. I just follow the attacking underwater rules and give the creature total concealment.

Aren't harpoons designed to strike something from above water and into the water? According to the underwater rules, no one can successfully harpoon unless the target surfaced.

[Nefreet]

Which is why sailors wait for whales to breach before firing.