Here we go, a surprising reveal!
I have played plenty of pathfinder adventure paths, got to know PF over the years, played too much 3.5, and mixed the two. I have discovered that while the adventures are pretty good, plenty of the characters are interesting, the dungeons are superb; the crunch of the system can get in the way of a game and a fantasy system and game does not need this amount of crunch!
Yes, the rules, the crunchiness, the long time spent levelling or considering options is not time spent playing. Vast troughs of abilities, a skill system trying to cover everything, numbers crawling ever higher requiring scraping and far too much game mastery to reach them, it is unnecessary and can be discouraging for new players.
I made a new game system recently. Its central philosophy was to be hack and slash combat and adventuring while being as smooth as enjoyable as possible. Maths would be kept at a minimum, no +3+12+2+1, not because of a problem with maths (I have extensive 3.5 experience), but because throwing giant numbers at a target number is not gripping play.
It centers around, for combat, attack and defence rolls, but there are almost no modifiers. If you are good or skilled, the dice you use increased. Yes, it is a fantasy conversion that does not use d20, but the d8, d10, and d12 are used a great deal. I also wanted to give the d12 some spotlight. You don't even get into modifiers, apart from a few situational bonuses(charge grants a +1), until you get past d12 and into d12+1. Shields increase your defence die, there is no need for a long complicated calculation of AC. You have a defence die, and that is what you roll against an attack, in real time, dice against dice, attack against defence.
So I wanted to post this up. That there is a better way to play fantasy. A more gripping way, a way that does not require game mastery, only a wish to adventure. It is far simpler, and extremely easy for new players to pick up, and relaxing for more experienced players that no longer need to carefully calculate every part of their sheet, less they be behind the power curve. Some have compared it to AD&D (before expansions) and making a build is extremely easy. Upgrades occur through build points, which raise dice and unlocks skills and new abilities. There are no feats, but as the dice used for a stat or skill increase, unlocks become available. These are kept simple, and effective. No complicated feat buggery here.
The games so far have been truly enjoyable, for the players and the dm. Levelling takes almost no time, there are no levels, only upgrade "build" points.
As the players journey on, I am using pathfinder material, and it is truly useful. The complex mechanics of pf (or 3.5) matter naught, when you have a clean and easy to use system. Adventure is easy!
The next step will be using whole adventure paths, and not just pieces from adventure paths.
The good news about an extremely easy system, is that using monsters isn't a chore. You assign their attack, defence, hp, soak if any, and then get into their special abilities. Which don't have to be complex with ultra high saves, you just put them in the game.
I also made a soak system that is far simpler than the current DR arrangements.
Still listening TPFL...
Was there a link that I missed?
Ah, you want some info. Okay:
System
It was a system first tested in a viking setting, so it was called the viking system for a time. It has since been used for fantasy games and futuristic games.
The system is a very straight-forward combat and skill based system, set around opposed rolls. Should you want to do something, you declare your intent and roll the appropriate dice. This will typically be met with an opposed roll or in rare situations not involving an opponent, it will be against a target number, e.g. make a scale the walls check with a target number of 3.
It is a system that uses every dice other than the d20, with d12 being excellent (and mods to a roll being very low, rare and easy to factor in).
All stats are either a number or the dice to be rolled, D4 to 12, represent the dice used.
The main stats are:
Attack: used to make every attack, including thrown and for feats of strength. Start with D6.
Defence: evading attacks, parrying, dodging traps. Start with d4.
Luck: this governs initiative in the event of a situational tie (initiative is based on weapons used, context and who chooses to act swiftly). Luck covers unforseen events, taking a risk and diving into the unknown. All players start with d6 luck.
HP: good old hit points, your health bar, how much punishment you can take before perishing. All players start with 7 hp.
Soak: this is where armour matters, since armour grants soak and allows you to ignore some hp damage. Players start without armour and on soak 0. Light armour is 1 (1 point of damage is soaked), heavy armour is 2.
Sanity: your mental strength, lowered or improved by a variety of events. Running out of sanity is bad. Start with 3 sanity.
Social: your ability to talk and convince. It covers negotiation, intimidation, persuasion. Start with d4.
There are also points used to influence rolls, represented by tokens. Each point is usable once per day and you start with 1 in each.
Power point: grants a +2 to an attack roll.
Poise point: grants a +3 to a defence roll. Can also be used to escape a combat when stun-locked (can't seem to parry and get control).
Archetypes and Builds
This game does not have classes, you in essence make your class over time with upgrades. Of which there will be many initially, but then they will slow except to enter a skill. Making a tank is easy, upgrade hp and defence and go for heavy armour. A concentration on specific skills will unlock new builds of your making—an assassin would be high attack and sneak.
What the system does have are starting archetypes, of which there are four each with differing benefits.
Fighter: 1 D upgrade to attack/defence, or +1 hp. Gain an additional power or poise point.
Leader: start with d8 social (instead of d4) and the calm situation ability twice per day.
Mystic: danger sense and flange once per day (you easily escape combat).
Resilient: ignore sanity loss once per day, +2 starting sanity.
Unlocks
There will also be additional special abilities unlocked by levelling stats. A generalist is without a weakness, but specialists learn new talents.
By pursuing an upgrade path with build points, new unlocks emerge. The new potential upgrade appears as a notice in the character’s interface.
D8 attack unlocks dirty kick/shield bash. As a variant attack, it does not damage but moves the opponent around in the direction you desire depending on how much you win by, e.g. win by 1 isn’t much, basically a shove, win by 4 is to kick/bash them totally off their feet so much so that they get air.
D10 attack unlocks Attack Speed (AS). Which unlocks a new attack every three additional build points to AS, with two only required if using a +1 to AS weapon.
D12 attack unlocks sword break. You attack their weapon and if they lose by 4 their weapon is instantly broken (some weapons are immune or resistant to breaking). If you win by 2-3, the weapon is damaged (-1 to their attack and closer to breaking as its durability is hit).
D12 attack unlocks knockback. You drive a foe around the battlefield with each hit if you wish (weaker than dirty kick but no roll needed). Moved approximately 2 metres, can follow or hold position.
D12+1 attack unlocks bleed attack: 2 hp over four turns (1 each two turns). Bleed can be used x3 per day. A further build point makes this x6 per day.
D12+2 attack unlocks armour cutting strike, 1 point of soak is always ignored.
D8 defence unlocks +2 against traps.
D8 defence unlocks sidestep, +2 defence against ranged (darts, shuriken, daggers, ranged monster attack).
D10 defence, unlocks the disarm defence and grants +1 to that defensive action (normally this is on -2).
D10 defence unlocks the weapon lock defence. If you match or beat your opponent’s attack, you can hold them in a weapon lock grapple for three turns. They can not attack during this time, but can drop their weapon to be free of the lock.
D10 defence, upgrade forces opponents to take -1 to charge attacks.
D12 defence, you unlock eyes in the back of your head, no bonus to enemies for backstabs and you always get a defence roll unless K.O/paralysed.
D8 luck unlocks trip attack and grants a +1 to the trip attack (typically on -1).
D10 luck unlocks speed upgrade +1. All speed upgrades improve mobility, jumping, tumbling, climbing and swimming.
Speed +2, can take blink step (teleport 3 metres immediately in the time it takes to move 1 metre). Usable three times per day and it creates openings to exploit in combat.
D10 luck, can take flange once per day.
D12 luck, a further build point takes flange to x3 per day. This is greater flange and you get a better head start.
D12+1 luck, unlocks ignore one attack per day (used after the results are known). You also gain initiative.
10 hp, 1 soak to slash/cut can be taken, stacks with armour soak.
13 hp, 1 soak to all.
15 hp. enable immune to bleed and all forms of slow damage.
17 hp, free upgrade, you are now immune to poison.
Each hp point also means the player can go longer without rest. Generally a player at 7hp is capable of 12 hours of activity, 4 hours of low activity and needs 8 hours of sleep.
Points
A build point can be used to gain a power or poise point each day.
+3 upgrades to a power or poise point, gain +1 point free.
7 points in either power or poise, and two points can be spent at once. Dubbed Mighty Rage and Deflect Anything.
Kill Rewards
Get an insta-kill with a charge, unlocks the charge +2 upgrade (normal charge is +1).
Get an insta-kill with an attack while hidden, unlocks the bandit attack upgrade, +2 to attack (not the normal +1 when undetected).
Kill two fellow players, -1 sanity for each. Gain the red display identifier to other players after your first kill.
Kill three fellow players, no more sanity loss, -1d to social.
Kill four gain +1 sanity up to +4. Lose a further -1d social, gain fearless and SHISHOGAN! (Lone wolf and cub reference).
That is a massive block of text, thank you for reading if you are still here, but I will add a little on damage. It is an attack and defence system that tries to keep the adrenaline up by going through each and every attack, and the responses to those attacks. You don't actually roll damage dice (so no more, hit by 10, and do minimum damage, god I hated that after a few years).
Damage is easy, if an attack beats defence by...
1-2 = 1 damage
3-4 = 3 damage
5-6 = 4 damage
7 = insta-gib. Yep, instantly killed.
Soak starts at 0, and armour can give you soak 1-3. 3 being magical armour crafted by dwarves, fairies and liches all during a magical rain dance. So yes, 3 is rare.
The good news about armour, is it can turn a light hit into nothing. However, when you start to take harder and more accurate hits, 1 really can't do so much, you need soak 2 to save your hide. Even then, whatever your hit points and soak, you can still be decapitated if you totally drop the ball against a skilled opponent (d8 and above).
A friend ran the math for me, on attack vs defence, it was quite interesting.
Lastly, this rule set is for a recent game, and I think some setting details are still in there. I've also made it for a more typical fantasy game, where players started advanced and specialised into certain roles. So archetypes can be a heavy layer over the scaffolding, or you can avoid them. For the recent game, they have been building and improving their characters from the very beginning, and not starting as experienced adventurers.
The kill players thing is in reference to a setting of players trapped inside a game.
Still here. Confused without examples and due to W.O.T (wall of text), but still here...
Do you mean examples of how combat works, or examples on how this has rocked, in part using pf materials, but not the pf system?
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More the former, but also the latter in terms of players' views of player experience pros and cons compared to PF...
If you have thoughts on GM experience pros and cons that would be cool too...
My players are not new to rpgs or games, but have expressed they are happy with the system and that it is simple to do things. Some of them do not, absolutely do not want to play a complicated system like PF. They don't have the time or interest to learn it, and unlock system mastery. There also aren't levels forcing your character to improve in a certain way (after this level you get this, but not before this) there are build points, and you assign them to make a build and concentrate them to specialise or spread out to generalise.
Cons, er, we don't have a rulebook. This is homemade, it is influenced by an Australian rpg that one of the players has got into. So there is a bit of browsing on the com that is required, but it is also a small ruleset, so this doesn't take too long.
Gming, the best pro is time. I make the dungeon, I prep the treasure and monsters, but genning monsters takes 1-2 minutes from scratch. Assign attack and defence die, does it have soak, what is its hp, add its special abilities and the effects they have. Dungeon prep is a lot shorter, you need less books open, monsters and foes aren't very complex on paper. That doesn't mean they aren't challenging or interesting to fight; and I would add, two pages of special abilities and side rules for a single foe, does not actually make them exciting. Use them, and move on, don't get bogged down in rules.
Saves, there aren't any exactly, and it has been good to escape that part of d20 too. Often defence is rolled to avoid something, or the "wise wolf" skill is used to detect a trap. Yes, while pf showed skills could be cramped down, I've cramped them down even further. Percep and sense motive got put into one.
I can add a bit on combat by explaining initiative.
It has been called the "stock exchange" initiative. Those who act quickly, who declare actions and jump in, go first. There is no roll and wait. Now the dm does have to be careful to not let one person dominate, but when an action is matched by a monster or foe, such as a double charge, then it comes to a luck roll. Initiative is gone, it is replaced by quick thinking and declaring actions, and a luck roll (some of the time).
If the players think and act fast, they are fast, that is how it goes. This encourages participation.
Movement is different to pf, since a round is 1-2 seconds (and even rounds as pf and dnd uses them does not exactly exist because initiative is removed). Ranged can be very strong, very strong indeed, but drawing, loading, sighting are all actions--they are not done for free. So if someone is rushing at you from a room away, you may get 1 shot at them as they charge, but that is it, and then you receive the charge with your bow, but no other weapon, or shield (which boosts defence) out.
Combat is attack dice vs defence dice, very low mods to rolls, once dice each, special abilites can be used, some which drain away actions (having to pick yourself up).
If you are attacked, you must parry (beat the attack by 1) to get initiative. If you equal (block) or fail (and are injured) they continue to have the attack, and can keep attacking. It is all about momentum and control. Some items like polearms allow you to take initiative from a charging opponent.
So yeah, been using this system with pf material and others influences. Converting over has been fun, playing games away from complex rpg systems.
Well it all sounds VERY interesting, but I have trouble grokking it all as separate chunks of text w/o examples or stats.
What Oz game is it based on - a homebrew or published system? (I'm up in the Blue Mountains west of Sydney btw).
Are you going to reveal a .doc at some stage? Plz plz...
I'm very interested in simple systems but not so much OSRIC or Savage Worlds etc...
Sorry to be so demanding. ;)
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Always going on about the crunch... This is an outrage..
"Oh here we f*cking go, the crunch this, the crunch that. Why are you so obsessed with the crunch?"
To Oceanlongname, what is grokking? Thanks for your replies.
The Oz game it is in part based on, is Lace & Steel.
I like it simple, but I'm also not into savage worlds (the art is nice though).