I understand that you can only get armor AC from one source, however what if you wear Bracers of Armor with only armor effects, not granting any armor bonus at the same time as armor?
Would you still get access to the effects?
Would one cancel out the other?
Thanks
Hexen
I thought about doing the same thing but alas it doesn't work, read the last two sentences of the bracers of armor.
I thought about doing the same thing but alas it doesn't work, read the last two sentences of the bracers of armor.
So if I wear padded armor, and have at least 2 AC in the bracers it would work?
I thought about doing the same thing but alas it doesn't work, read the last two sentences of the bracers of armor.So if I wear padded armor, and have at least 2 AC in the bracers it would work?
until you enchant the padded armor.
until you enchant the padded armor.I thought about doing the same thing but alas it doesn't work, read the last two sentences of the bracers of armor.So if I wear padded armor, and have at least 2 AC in the bracers it would work?
OH so if I have a padded +1, and bracers of armor 3 it would work?
I could enchant the armor with +9 worth of effects, and all would be fine?
until you enchant the padded armor.I thought about doing the same thing but alas it doesn't work, read the last two sentences of the bracers of armor.So if I wear padded armor, and have at least 2 AC in the bracers it would work?OH so if I have a padded +1, and bracers of armor 3 it would work?
I could enchant the armor with +9 worth of effects, and all would be fine?
Well, the bracers only go up to +8, and you gain no benefit from your padded armor and its magical bonuses while the bracers are better, so there wouldn't be much point...
"Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning." From PRD Bracer of Armor
If you have enchanted +1 Padded Armor with +9 worth of special Ablities it won't work if the Bracers are +2. The armor entirely ceases functioning. Now the reverse works if you armor is higher than your bracers then the braces armor bonus only ceases but any special quality the bracers provide would still work.
So you could have Bracers +1 AC with +7 worth of special Qualities that would work with any armor you are wearing that is greater that +1 armor bonus.
"Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning." From PRD Bracer of Armor
If you have enchanted +1 Padded Armor with +9 worth of special Ablities it won't work if the Bracers are +2. The armor entirely ceases functioning. Now the reverse works if you armor is higher than your bracers then the braces armor bonus only ceases but any special quality the bracers provide would still work.
So you could have Bracers +1 AC with +7 worth of special Qualities that would work with any armor you are wearing that is greater that +1 armor bonus.
No, this doesn't work. If you get higher AC from your armor, then the bracers do not grant any armor or any armor special abilities. If you get higher AC from your bracers, then the armor does not grant any armor or armor special abilities. You can have one or the other, but not both.
The question arises about what happens when the bonus from armor and the bonus from the bracers are identical. RAI seems to be that the bracers and the normal armor don't function together; it's one or the other. However, if your armor grants a +2 armor bonus (padded armor +1, for example) and you buy bracers of armor +2, both offer a +2 armor bonus to AC. It's not a big deal if you just have AC bonuses on both items. They don't stack, so you just get a +2 bonus to AC. But what happens when you have +1 padded armor of invulnerability and +2 bracers of armor of medium fortification? Both items provide a +2 armor bonus to AC, and therefore one is not higher than the other since they provide an equal bonus. In this slim case, RAW seems to say that you would get both items' effects (the invulnerability and the medium fortification).
I don't think it ought to work this way, but a very strict reading of RAW could lead to that interpretation.
I've never really understood the AC from one source rule. Ability modifiers and the like I understand, they enhance your base and as such do not effect each other. I also understand not being able to stack armors. After all many of your heavier armors are assumed to have lower level armor incorporated(Plate has chain, etc.)and it is pretty silly and unrealistic to try to wear multiple armors at once. I don't get AC bonuses from different sources not stacking though. If I, in my trusty leather armor, find a pair of magic bracers which are harder than anything I have ever seen and seem to guide my arms so as to always defect incoming blows then why would wearing them make my leather armor stop offering me any form of protection? If I have a ring of protection which offers me my own personal forcefield to deflect incoming blows and a ring which creates a gust of wind to deflect ranged attacks, why does one negate the other when an arrow comes my way?
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I've never really understood the AC from one source rule. Ability modifiers and the like I understand, they enhance your base and as such do not effect each other. I also understand not being able to stack armors. After all many of your heavier armors are assumed to have lower level armor incorporated(Plate has chain, etc.)and it is pretty silly and unrealistic to try to wear multiple armors at once. I don't get AC bonuses from different sources not stacking though. If I, in my trusty leather armor, find a pair of magic bracers which are harder than anything I have ever seen and seem to guide my arms so as to always defect incoming blows then why would wearing them make my leather armor stop offering me any form of protection? If I have a ring of protection which offers me my own personal forcefield to deflect incoming blows and a ring which creates a gust of wind to deflect ranged attacks, why does one negate the other when an arrow comes my way?
Your examples are technically incorrect for this problem. The two options you've described are items that add a Deflection bonus to AC and those do stack with armor bonuses. The issue their talking about is bracers that add an ARMOR bonus to AC.
I've always viewed it as bracers of armor actually add a form fitting, non-restrictive field around the wearer that functions as if they were wearing a real suit of armor. This way it's like they are actually wearing armor and you can't put a suit of armor over another suit.
"Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger armor bonus, the other source of armor ceases functioning." From PRD Bracer of Armor
If you have enchanted +1 Padded Armor with +9 worth of special Ablities it won't work if the Bracers are +2. The armor entirely ceases functioning. Now the reverse works if you armor is higher than your bracers then the braces armor bonus only ceases but any special quality the bracers provide would still work.
So you could have Bracers +1 AC with +7 worth of special Qualities that would work with any armor you are wearing that is greater that +1 armor bonus.
Keep in mind that this includes any armor source, mundane leather armor grants a higher armor bonus than +1 heavy fortification bracers, hence the leather armor would be in effect.
Some die-hards will no doubt want to game the system by using "equal" armor bonus (padded +1 armor with lots of additional enchantments, along with +2 bracers with extra enchantments) arguing that neither is greater and thus they stack.
This - I believe - is against intentions, thus won't fly at my table.
@ Mauril
The question arises about what happens when the bonus from armor and the bonus from the bracers are identical. RAI seems to be that the bracers and the normal armor don't function together; it's one or the other.
The rules are unclear about how to rule on which armor acts, but they are clear that they do not stack. When there is a difference in the AC bonus, then the higher AC bonus takes precedence. When there is not, the rules don't say which takes precedence, but they clearly say they do not both act. I'd say it is the wearer's choice, decided when the 2nd piece of armor granting item is put on.
@ Corrik
Mathweii has hit the nail on the head here. Your bracers aren't like Wonder Woman's, causing your arms to fly into the path of bullets and send them scattering away. Rather "They surround the wearer with An invisible but tangible field of force" (SRD). They create a suit of armor made out of force which rests on your body. That doesn't stack with other armor for the same reason that putting a second set of plate mail on top of your first set of plate mail doesn't work.
An armor bonus to AC represents armor's force-spreading effect. Armor protects by taking a direct blow and spreading the force of impact out over a greater area of your body, lessening the impact. That's why armor bonuses don't add to touch AC, you are still getting hit by the blow, it just doesn't damage you. If all that needs to happen is you get hit, though (such as by, let's say shocking grasp), then spreading that electrical effect out over a larger area of your body won't help. Something which makes what would be a hit instead glance off and go astray is a deflection bonus to AC. That DOES stack with an armor bonus's force-of-blow-absorbing properties.
The only argument I've ever given credence to with regards to Bracers and Armor is this one.
If the bracers are higher than the base armor rating of whatever you are wearing (such as +4 Bracers and +3 Leather Armor), then the person wearing both should have the option of turning off the enhancement bonus on his armor in order to get the bracers benefits. In other words, treat the enhancement on the armor as a command word activated item. I actually had no issue with that. The only time it comes in to play is when the person is dealing with incorporeal creatures, as the bracers armor is a force effect, and works against the incorporeal.
The only other time I can see someone wanting both is if he wears plate mail, and wants something to sleep in so he has an AC if he's attacked at night.
@ Corrik
Mathweii has hit the nail on the head here. Your bracers aren't like Wonder Woman's, causing your arms to fly into the path of bullets and send them scattering away. Rather "They surround the wearer with An invisible but tangible field of force" (SRD). They create a suit of armor made out of force which rests on your body. That doesn't stack with other armor for the same reason that putting a second set of plate mail on top of your first set of plate mail doesn't work.
An armor bonus to AC represents armor's force-spreading effect. Armor protects by taking a direct blow and spreading the force of impact out over a greater area of your body, lessening the impact. That's why armor bonuses don't add to touch AC, you are still getting hit by the blow, it just doesn't damage you. If all that needs to happen is you get hit, though (such as by, let's say shocking grasp), then spreading that electrical effect out over a larger area of your body won't help. Something which makes what would be a hit instead glance off and go astray is a deflection bonus to AC. That DOES stack with an armor bonus's force-of-blow-absorbing properties.
Actually I think you would find that if you did put on a second set of armor that it would indeed provide more protection. You just wouldn't be able to move, or likely see, and it would probably be quite uncomfortable and have to either be quite large or made specifically to wear over another suit of armor. These reasons make it a no go for reality or game play. For example, put one pillow on your arm and punch it. Now put two or three more pillows on your arm and punch it with the same force. You'll probably notice a difference, depending on the level of force of course. Putting a personal force field on top of that seems like it would add another layer of protection to me, and being that it is force would likely work against touch attacks.
I fully understand why AC doesn't apply to touch attacks, and I don't argue with that rule. I think there are one or two spells and abilities that probably shouldn't be touch attack but that is not an issue with the rule.
Actually I think you would find that if you did put on a second set of armor that it would indeed provide more protection. You just wouldn't be able to move, or likely see, and it would probably be quite uncomfortable and have to either be quite large or made specifically to wear over another suit of armor. These reasons make it a no go for reality or game play. For example, put one pillow on your arm and punch it. Now put two or three more pillows on your arm and punch it with the same force. You'll probably notice a difference, depending on the level of force of course. Putting a personal force field on top of that seems like it would add another layer of protection to me, and being that it is force would likely work against touch attacks.
I fully understand why AC doesn't apply to touch attacks, and I don't argue with that rule. I think there are one or two...
I guess 2 responses.
The first, which lies more in numbers than in reality, is that the game just isn't designed to handle ACs as high as what you would get if you allowed bracer's AC bonus to stack with armor's AC bonus.
The second is more an appeal to realism.
As you pointed out, yes, two pillows provide more protection than one pillow, but also wearing two sets of platemail is really not feasible. If you are looking for that level of physical protection you might as well just build a big steel cube with a snorkel.
I see the force armor that the bracers provide as being a similar thing. It is not a thin- and smooth-as-silk layer which rests above you, but a thick block of solid air. It moves with you, yes, but it still takes up space, and if you try to put it over other armor then they are going to get in each other's way. If it isn't rigid then it doesn't serve armor's primary force-spreading purpose. So putting the force armor of bracers or a mage armor spell on top of other armor doesn't work because they interfere with each other.
Or, for a different interpretation, the force armor exists concurrently and in parallel with any other armor. If you are wearing leather armor and force armor then the force armor is allowed to overlap with the leather armor, but if the leather is tougher then the force armor really has nothing to offer (like trying to reinforce a breastplate by riveting a piece of cloth to the inside). If the force armor is tougher then it stiffens the leather to it's level(riveting a breastplate behind a shirt), but in so doing overrides any other effect that the leather was granting.
Now, these are both just fluff readings, but they are possible explanations for why the armor bonuses don't stack.