Can swarms move through a Wall of Thorns? Specifically creeping doom.

[Scarymike]

I had an awesome combo of putting foes in a Wall of Thorns, then dropping a creeping doom on them.

However, by RAW, I don't think a centipede swarm would move through the wall.

They need a strength check of dc25 to move even 5 feet. Not possible with a str of 1. They are immune to weapon damage, but this is not really a weapon.

Thoughts?

creeping doom

Centipede Swarm

Swarm Subtype

Wall of thorns

[Aureate]

I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Swarm Subtype wrote:

A swarm can move through cracks or holes large enough for its component creatures.

Wall of thorns is bramble, so it should have the necessary gaps.

[Tarantula]

RAW: Wall of thorns does not provide an exception for size, so they would have to make a strength check to move through the wall.

As far as I know, swarms still move slowly through difficult terrain such as overgrown areas, and so they don't get to move through at no penalty like a druid with woodland stride could.

In my opinion: I don't think they would be able to move once caught in the thorns. You could still summon them on top of creatures in the thorns, causing those creatures to take damage from the swarm.

They also have a climb speed. You might be able to argue they could climb up and over the wall of thorns. But that doesn't help get them inside of it.

[Lincoln Hills]

Note the line Aureate quoted. By RaW they'd still take the damage involved in penetrating a wall of thorns (probably a result of many component creatures in the swarm getting sidetracked and split off from the main mass,) but as a barrier it wouldn't be of much use. I might rule differently for swarms of Tiny creatures such as rats... although now that I think of it, rats are infamous for getting into places you would have sworn they couldn't...

[Tarantula]

Fine and Diminutive creatures are immune to weapon damage. Wall of Thorns deals piercing damage. Dev's have stated that Slashing/Bludgeoning/Piercing damage stated in spells is considered weapon damage not spell damage.

That said, if you had a single diminutive creature, would you allow it to move through the wall of thorns without a str check?

If you would allow any single diminutive creature to do that, then yes, the swarm can too. The problem, is wall of thorns doesn't have any exception for diminutive or fine creatures. It is just that dense.

[Lincoln Hills]

Valid point. There's RaW in both directions - with, as Tarantula points out, the possibility of climbing over the wall if it can't be penetrated.

[Artanthos]

RAW: no
Home game: yes

[Scarymike]

Thanks for your input everyone!