Multiple attacks with Fire Snake on same creature


Rules Questions


I'm wondering if it is possible to hit the same creature multiple times with an attack like Fire Snake. Assume I'm a 10th Level Sorcerer, and I cast it starting with one creature that is X distance away. I then "snake" it one square away, then reverse direction and hit it a second time, move it away, then back for a third strike, and so on, until I'm out of movement. If I hit it five times this way, it should take 5 x 10d6 damage, correct? Just trying to understand how line and this spell can work. I get that it can hit multiple targets alone a line, but am intrigued about hitting one tough target more than once. Thanks in advance for assistance with this.


I dont think you are going to find a definitive answer as Fire Snake uses an unusual area which is not dealt with in the CRB. line spells are addressed but the CRB assumes they go in a straight line rather than being shaped.

Personally I wouldnt allow it, it's an instantaneous spell and causes 1d6/level to creatures in the path. You arent counting out each square of length and resolving individually.


nope... andreww is right
that is an instantaneous duration spell with an interesting mechanic to determine area of effect...

Spoiler:

FIRE SNAKE
School evocation [fire]; Level druid 5, sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a snake scale)
Range 60 ft.
Area see text
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
You create a sinuous line of flames that you may shape as desired. The fire snake affects one 5-foot square per caster level, and each square must be adjacent to the previous square, starting with you. The fire snake may not extend beyond its maximum range. Creatures in the path of the fire snake take 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 15d6).

The one 5 foot square per caster level determines only 'which squares are effected by the spell and which aren't', once that determination is set, the effect is affected creatures take 1d6 damage per caster level.

still a good spell, but not what you are hoping.


I don't understand your last line. Why wouldn't I count out each square of length? I have 10 squares with which to resolve the line. I can go in a straight line. I can go five up and five over. There's nothing that I see, visually or in the text, that says you cannot criss-cross your path...really, no limitations at all with regards to direction.

I suppose if you were the GM you could overrule my attempt, but because it is innovative doesn't necessarily mean that it's wrong, does it? Not trying to be obstinate, rather, trying to maximize use of a potentially devastating spell.


You can clearly criss cross your path. What I am saying however is that the spell resolves instantaneously and damages anything in its path. It doesn't say you get to apply multiple damage rolls, anything in its path gets one save versus one lot of damage.


Okay, I'm still confused, but hey, at my age (52), things like that happen. I'll just go with the assumption that y'all are far more experienced than I and that I'm wrong. Appreciate the quick response.


don't visualize this spell as a summoned creature attacking every square one after the other...

... it is a fireball that lets you 'not hit friends'.

when you cast it... it goes "BOOM" and hurts everyone in the area of effect... criss-crossing your path doesn't layer an effect there twice.. still only one "BOOM"

Liberty's Edge

Zsz'zen wrote:
I'm wondering if it is possible to hit the same creature multiple times with an attack like Fire Snake. Assume I'm a 10th Level Sorcerer, and I cast it starting with one creature that is X distance away. I then "snake" it one square away, then reverse direction and hit it a second time, move it away, then back for a third strike, and so on, until I'm out of movement. If I hit it five times this way, it should take 5 x 10d6 damage, correct? Just trying to understand how line and this spell can work. I get that it can hit multiple targets alone a line, but am intrigued about hitting one tough target more than once. Thanks in advance for assistance with this.

Doing 50d6 against a single target is WAY too powerful at any level. Heck at 15th level, it would be 105d6!

This question would likely be answered in the 'Combining Magic Effects' area of the Core Rulebook. That section deals with multiple spell effects hitting a single target, but it is not a leap to use those guidelines on a single spell. There are two passages to note:

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the one with the highest strength applies.

Instantaneous Effects: Two or more spells with instantaneous durations work cumulatively when they affect the same target.

It is still a GM call, but I would hope that any GM would state that no matter how many times you wrap the fire snake back on itself, the damage dice do not increase.


Okay, now I have it. Guess it would be a bit over powered if it did it the way I was thinking, eh? :)

Liberty's Edge

Fire Snake wrote:
You create a sinuous line of flames that you may shape as desired. The fire snake affects one 5-foot square per caster level, and each square must be adjacent to the previous square, starting with you. The fire snake may not extend beyond its maximum range. Creatures in the path of the fire snake take 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 15d6).

Everyone in the area of effect takes damage. The caster defines the area of effect, according to the spell's guidelines. You don't take damage for every time the caster can trace a line through your square. The spell does what it says, nothing more.


Because it is instantaneous it works like this, first you describe where you want the lines to be drawn, then they burst into flame. So with that sequence, it wouldn't matter how many times you cross a square, the fire does the same amount of damage because said fire erupts from the ground at the exact same moment, once your hit, the fire is gone.


Similarly, since it's an instantaneous effect, if a large creature has two of its squares affected, it would still only take the burn damage once. There would be no doubling of the damage from two separate square effects.


I've got a question about fire snake someone might be able to answer...

Since it only has a flat 60 feet of range, reach spell isn't applicable, right?

Same thing with Lightning bolt's 120 foot range.


Reach spell would not apply.


Pyatt wrote:
would it hit the same target more than once if it was of large size and u hit each square it was occupying at the time?

Nope, similar to fireball the 'area of effect' is just a yes/no question to determine whether or not a target is included in the spell effect.

The spell effect is then applied to all targets that were determined to be included.

It doesn't matter how many times you say "yes" to "is he included?", the targets takes the damage once.

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