I just want to make sure i am understanding a difference....
With the fly spell: being attacked in the air or collision don't have a chance of making you fall because you arent flying with wings
Wings of flying: you will have a chance to fall from collision or attacks because even though its an item made using the fly spell...you now use wings
and if i am correct, would it be a stretch to create wings of flying that are instead something like cape of flying that doesn't use wings?
Attacked While Flying: You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature's movement.
Collision While Flying: If you are using wings to fly and you collide with an object equal to your size or larger, you must immediately make a DC 25 Fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.
When the wearer speaks the command word, the cloak turns into a pair of bat or bird wings that empower her to fly with a speed of 60 feet (average maneuverability), also granting a +5 competence bonus on Fly skill checks.
So you are correct in your observations.
ok, thanks
I just had an idea for a character that uses boots of the cat and wings of flying to bull rush flying enemies into the ground to kill them from 100 feet in the air, while only taking 10 damage from the fall.
:)
"Avoid Falling Damage: If you are falling and have the ability to fly, you can make a DC 10 Fly check to negate the damage. You cannot make this check if you are falling due to a failed Fly check or a collision."
would bullrush count as collision?
I would say anything that would make you fall out of the air would count as a collision. It makes sense that if you have wings and could normally make a DC 10 check to avoid falling damage if you run into a skyscraper, that you could do the same if someone tries to bullrush you in the air.
Now, if you can grapple them and pin them then that may cause them to be incapable of flight. I would need to review the rules for grappling, pinning and what happens with flight.
Interesting situation. If you rule that bull rush only counts as being attacked then you need only make a check to avoid losing 10 ft of altitude. If you rule that bull rush counts as collision then you have to make a check to avoid plummeting. My initial thought was that you intentionally collide with someone using bull rush but I'm not sure now. If it did work that way, you would provoke an AoO like normal (unless you have improved bull rush). Then, if you get hit by the AoO and lose 10 ft of altitude you can't complete the bull rush. If you can't bull rush to force a collision roll how would one accomplish this?
The DC 10 fly check is not allowed if you are falling due to a collision.
well, that's what feather fall is for
"i collide with him forcing us both to fall, then *Dr. evil pinky maneuver* i feather fall myself"
Snap leaf just became more awesome.
Part of the fly spell is that when it ends(even if dispelled) you only fall 60ft per round for 1d6 rounds and take no falling damage unless this slowed descent doesn't put you on the ground safely. That isn't to say you aren't still subject to plummeting from collisions, you are. But being attacked only makes you fall 10 ft lower than where you currently are if you fail the fly check. Also, the fly spell requires the same amount of concentration as walking (none at all).
Interesting situation. If you rule that bull rush only counts as being attacked then you need only make a check to avoid losing 10 ft of altitude. If you rule that bull rush counts as collision then you have to make a check to avoid plummeting. My initial thought was that you intentionally collide with someone using bull rush but I'm not sure now. If it did work that way, you would provoke an AoO like normal (unless you have improved bull rush). Then, if you get hit by the AoO and lose 10 ft of altitude you can't complete the bull rush. If you can't bull rush to force a collision roll how would one accomplish this?
The DC 10 fly check is not allowed if you are falling due to a collision.
If you can make a DC 25 fly check its sort of irrelevant for you. Of course that it isn't always the case so we have to think about what happens.
I guess it makes sense that if you bullrush and force a collision you have to make a DC 25 fly check or you plummet to the ground, both creatures. If you happen to have the boots of the cat then you take minimal damage while your enemy would take much more.
If you can't bullrush to cause a collision it seems like you could still fly into them and cause a collision somehow. Thats what the rules are there for.
Now the real question is, at what rate do creatures fall? And since damage caps at 20d6 which is on average 70 points of damage, are you just better off actually attacking your enemy?