[Legendary Games] Ultimate Rulership

[Jason Nelson]

Mead Gregorisson wrote:

Not related really, I will be getting it when it comes on DTRPG so I can keep all of the books together at one location.

While we never begrudge a sale anywhere, Drivethru is our least preferred option for our customers for the simple reason that their distributor's cut is larger than anywhere else, but if that's the store that best fits your needs and provides products you want that shop.d20pfsrd or Paizo.com don't carry, then God bless you and thanks for your business.

Mead Gregorisson wrote:

My question is what Wordpress store plugin to you guys use, or who could tell me? I like it and I am trying to start a prepping store on my blog, so I need a plugin.

Yes, I know... odd question. ;p

That is an excellent question, and the answer is that I'm not exactly sure. Clark Peterson originally set up the site as an offshoot account on the Necromancer Games website, and the whole site became ours when Frog God migrated off the account when they went to their new service.

I set up the store back in March, and my recollection was that the store function was there already. I don't think I downloaded an additional plug-in for it. I did try to download some of Hostmonster's other plug-ins for Wordpress, one for message boards and one for tracking purchases, but I was evidently not web-savvy enough to get them to work. Such are the perils of DIY web design.

I will say this:

Legendary Games is moving to a new hosting service this month. If any enterprising web developer with some free time and a thirst for free product would like to help get our new site ship-shape should email me at [e-mail]. I'd like to talk to YOU!

[Justin Postlewaite]

I just wanted to thank Jason for his very fast and generous help despite my rather rude initial inquiry. I haven't finished it yet but it seems like a great product.

One thing that I'm not sure about is the absence of both the inquisitor and anti-paladin from the building requirements needed to recruit them. I assume this is an oversight as the anti-paladin is mentioned earlier as being recruitable. The inquisitor I imagine as using either the same buildings as either the paladin or cleric (I'm not sure if they should require the military academy as paladins do but it seems reasonable). The anti-paladin I'm not sure about, it would seem odd for them to require a cathedral or temple but I guess if it was an evil cathedral or temple it would fit but I don't think they're explicitly aligned. The other alternate classes have their own requirements so the anti-paladin would seem to as well.

This is a pretty minor nitpick in an excellent book, however.

[Jason Nelson]

Justin Postlewaite wrote:

I just wanted to thank Jason for his very fast and generous help despite my rather rude initial inquiry. I haven't finished it yet but it seems like a great product.

One thing that I'm not sure about is the absence of both the inquisitor and anti-paladin from the building requirements needed to recruit them. I assume this is an oversight as the anti-paladin is mentioned earlier as being recruitable. The inquisitor I imagine as using either the same buildings as either the paladin or cleric (I'm not sure if they should require the military academy as paladins do but it seems reasonable). The anti-paladin I'm not sure about, it would seem odd for them to require a cathedral or temple but I guess if it was an evil cathedral or temple it would fit but I don't think they're explicitly aligned. The other alternate classes have their own requirements so the anti-paladin would seem to as well.

This is a pretty minor nitpick in an excellent book, however.

Antipaladin would be the same as paladin (makes sense, since it is an alternate class of the paladin class, and unlike the samurai and ninja doesn't have any geographic/cultural connotations that go with it. Evil temple/cathedral is what you need. It might make sense to require the kingdom alignment to match or at least be close (perhaps LG, NG, LN kingdom alignment for paladins, CN, CE, NE for antipaladins).

Inquisitor, though, was an oversight. Just use the cleric line.

[Justin Postlewaite]

Jason Nelson said wrote:

Antipaladin would be the same as paladin (makes sense, since it is an alternate class of the paladin class, and unlike the samurai and ninja doesn't have any geographic/cultural connotations that go with it. Evil temple/cathedral is what you need. It might make sense to require the kingdom alignment to match or at least be close (perhaps LG, NG, LN kingdom alignment for paladins, CN, CE, NE for antipaladins).

Inquisitor, though, was an oversight. Just use the cleric line.

Thanks, this makes sense. I guess the building you'd need for an anti-paladin would be pretty scary. I wonder how much the kingdom alignment, the character alignment and the church/cathedral alignment should each matter. The way you listed it N kingdoms can never have either paladin which may make sense-alignment is one part of d&d/pathfinder I'm ambivalent about/don't understand completely. Was planning on starting a thread on it. Seems weird that CN would recruit anti-paladins. Also seems like paladins may only work for a LG kingdom. An anti-paladin would work for whoever he wanted, I guess, but I'd be worried if I was a good kingdom. The campaign matters-if you're playing in Golarion I imagine the church is dedicated to a specific God and only those Gods who have paladins can be recruited from that building. I don't know much about anti-paladins-do they have Gods or are they just evil all on their own? ;)

At least the way you have it listed makes kingdom alignment matter a little more. It seems like it should matter more than a point or two in a kingdom stat. I was thinking maybe it should add 5 or 10% to that stat but that may be too much. Maybe I'm forgetting something else it affects.

BTW this is completely irrelevant but if you do a revision there's a redundant sentence on the page we're talking about: under "Elites" it says both, "other PC classes may be available at the GM's discretion" and in the same paragraph, "At the GM's option, other PC classes may be recruited as elites."

[Alexander Augunas]

Do Treetop Cities and Cliffside Cities receive free City Walls like Cavern cities do? Both Treetop and Cliffslide have what appear to be copy/paste errors that refer to the Cavern City, but I'm not sure how much is the error.

[Technotrooper]

Will this book be available in print format (POD)?

[Alexander Augunas]

Second question. Is it intended that Underwater Cities cannot construct waterways, but they can also build them for free?

[Justin Postlewaite]

I love the different titles but if you want more options check out Noble Titles and if THAT'S not enough for you there's More Noble Titles

And I laughed so hard when I saw Imperious Rex listed.

[Jason Nelson]

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Do Treetop Cities and Cliffside Cities receive free City Walls like Cavern cities do? Both Treetop and Cliffslide have what appear to be copy/paste errors that refer to the Cavern City, but I'm not sure how much is the error.

Both of those paragraphs should have been deleted. Disregard each.

[Quiche Lisp]

Does this pdf stand on its own, or does it need the Ultimate Campaign book by Paizo to be of use ?

I already own the Book of River Nations, and I was wondering how this pdf compares to it, too.

Anyway, thanks to Legendary Games for broadening the players' and GMs' options. More options is good !

[Cthulhusquatch]

Jason Nelson wrote:

While we never begrudge a sale anywhere, Drivethru is our least preferred option for our customers for the simple reason that their distributor's cut is larger than anywhere else, but if that's the store that best fits your needs and provides products you want that shop.d20pfsrd or Paizo.com don't carry, then God bless you and thanks for your business.

That is an excellent question, and the answer is that I'm not exactly sure. Clark Peterson originally set up the site as an offshoot account on the Necromancer Games website, and the whole site became ours when Frog God migrated off the account when they went to their new service.

I set up the store back in March, and my recollection was that the store function was there already. I don't think I downloaded an additional plug-in for it. I did try to download some of Hostmonster's other plug-ins for Wordpress, one for message boards and one for tracking purchases, but I was evidently not web-savvy enough to get them to work. Such are the perils of DIY web design.

I will say this:

Legendary Games is moving to a new hosting service this month. If any enterprising web developer with some free time and a thirst for free product would like to help get our new site ship-shape should email me at [e-mail]. I'd like to talk to YOU!

Well now I feel bad. I also did the same with Kobold Press, I got my first book there and only buy their stuff there because I like keeping them together, not have books spread out. I didn't realize they took a much larger cut than even Paizo.

The plugin may have already been downloaded when you took over and set up the store. I'll have to go through the plugins and see if I can find the one that is most similar. Thanks for the answer!

My web design talents are limited, otherwise I'd use one of the storefronts at HostGator. I'd give you a hand with the new site, if it weren't for that. But I am sure you can find a better volunteer.

[Jason Nelson]

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Second question. Is it intended that Underwater Cities cannot construct waterways, but they can also build them for free?

I was trying to think of the best way to represent that building waterways is kind of superfluous for an underwater city. They can't really build them because THEY'RE ALREADY UNDERWATER! :)

I think this would fall under the purview of common sense: It's an underwater city. Put waterways wherever you want.

However, since I'm going to have Tim fix the two cavern city references, I can have him fix this too, for the sake of absolute clarity.

[Jason Nelson]

Justin Postlewaite wrote:

I love the different titles but if you want more options check out Noble Titles and if THAT'S not enough for you there's More Noble Titles

And I laughed so hard when I saw Imperious Rex listed.

Ha, glad you enjoyed it!

(though, of course, Namor says it "Imperius Rex")

I learned as a freelancer that you can't get too cute with little Easter eggs and such, but it's not gonna kill anybody to throw in a little one every now and then. That's one of the perks of being your own boss! :)

[Jason Nelson]

Technotrooper wrote:

Will this book be available in print format (POD)?

It's in the works. I'm investigating CreateSpace to produce POD books; their prices are much lower than the competition, but I'm interested to see their quality. I may order a sample book just to check it out. If it looks good and if prepping the book for print doesn't take too long, we could have POD ready sooner rather than later.

Stay tuned, but this is definitely on our radar.

[Jadeite]

PoD would be great. How about a compilation of all the CC stuff (maybe without the pregens and the modules). I already own the PDFs, but I prefer prints.

[Justin Postlewaite]

Jaso Nelson said wrote:

Ha, glad you enjoyed it!

(though, of course, Namor says it "Imperius Rex")

I learned as a freelancer that you can't get too cute with little Easter eggs and such, but it's not gonna kill anybody to throw in a little one every now and then. That's one of the perks of being your own boss! :)

Yes, that is the sort of thing you need to be careful with-it will always annoy someone. I haven't dealt with it in this sort of situation but have slipped things in fiction I've written. Its almost more annoying when you're too subtle and no one gets it.

In this case its especially funny since the quote makes much more sense in this context than whenever Namor used it. Stan Lee always said he just put two words together that sounded good (though you can't always trust Ol' Stan, not that he necessarily lies but he is old and has always said his memory is bad-though it is convenient that his memory lapses are almost always in his or Marvel's favor) and weren't meant to mean anything (except maybe the equivalent of "It's clobbering time!"), but in this case a translation of "ruling leader/king" or "conquering leader/king" isn't far off.

[Jason Nelson]

Quiche Lisp wrote:

Does this pdf stand on its own, or does it need the Ultimate Campaign book by Paizo to be of use ?

It is a supplement to the kingdom-building rules in UCam. There are some parts of it that could be useful in a campaign that does not use those rules, but the majority of it is devoted to expanding those rules.

Quiche Lisp wrote:

I already own the Book of River Nations, and I was wondering how this pdf compares to it, too.

The BoRN book was created as a compilation of the original kingdom-building and (if memory serves) mass combat rules James Jacobs wrote for Kingmaker. It essentially reprinted the articles from AP #32 and AP #35, as well as culling additional fan-created material from the Paizo message boards, including some contributions from me that I posted to the boards and for which I received a free copy of the book from Dale McCoy by way of appreciation after he asked if he could use them in the book and I agreed.

Ultimate Rulership is a supplement for the revised kingdom-building rules that appear in UCam. Those new rules represent a combination of those original designs from 2010 with my authorial reinterpretation, revision, and expansion of those rules. That redesign took into account insights from many people's comments about using the original rules and my own experience running a Kingmaker campaign with them for 2-1/2 years. Ultimate Rulership takes my authorial vision for the kingdom rules a step further and is about the same length as the entire kingdom-building section in UCam, effectively doubling the amount of text devoted to the new edition of the kingdom-building rules with a you have available designed for the new edition.

Those who have purchased Ultimate Rulership were also the first ones to see the initial preview of the next product in this line, Ultimate War, targeted for a July 1st release, which will do the same for the mass combat rules as Ultimate Rulership does for the kingdom-building rules.

BoRN is 52 pages, black and white, simple layout and line art, and includes short sections on feats (some personal, some kingdom-related), magic items and spells (ditto), and two PrCs. A total of 16 pages are devoted to kingdom building rules.

Ultimate Rulership is 40 pages, full-color, rich layout and art, internal and external hyperlinks, and a total focus on kingdom-building, rulership, and management.

Perhaps the key difference is that BoRN was designed for a rules system that was current 3 years ago, whereas UR is designed for the kingdom-building rules as they exist now. There are still places where you may find use for many of the rules in BoRN, as even a product called Ultimate Rulership can't possibly cover everything, but many other rules from that product don't apply with the new rules, or have been superseded by changes in the rule set upon which the product was based.

TL;DR - BoRN retains some utility, and I liked the book enough when it was being produced that I contributed to it, but if you want the best enhancement to the revised kingdom rules in Ultimate Campaign going forward, I think you have to give the edge to Ultimate Rulership.

Quiche Lisp wrote:

Anyway, thanks to Legendary Games for broadening the players' and GMs' options. More options is good !

Thanks for the vote of confidence! I hope you enjoy all of our great products!

[T.A.U.]

I have got my copy yesterday night (GMT +1 time), and I'm going to use it on mine next Kingmaker campaign.
I loved the "Cities, Towns, and Villages" part, the months based construction time and the Exotic Settlements (mine "dwarf and elf" fan players will really enjoy it)

[Alexander Augunas]

Yeah, the Months-based Construction is probably the most brilliant aspect of the new rules.

[CalebTGordan]

I like the exotic settlements. We were trying to figure out how to do a cavern based city for some kobolds not long ago.

We are also thinking of a traveling gypsy settlement, with each "building" being a wagon or a large tent. We would have to use common sense on what buildings just wouldn't work, and the settlement would be able to move around the kingdom.

[Tsuji-Giri]

Amazing job Jason, I just have a few clarifying questions for when you have the time.

There are numbers before the month that I assume are monthly payments made to construct a building. Given that this is true then:

A. Why do some buildings cost more when spread out over time but others don't?

B. What happens if the city halts construction for a month or more?

And in regard to populations, it seems far reduced from the original rules . Right now my players have a town that went from a population of 3500 to 350. This also means that when they change to a "city" they will have around 1000 people, which according to the settlement rules places them in the small town category, and when they would have multiple district they may still only have the population of a small city. Is this an error or is this intentional?

Thank you again for this book. The new edict rules are fantastic as well as the exotic settlements and the everything else. I will definitely be giving this high reviews when the product store comes out!

[Jason Nelson]

Tsuji-Giri wrote:

Amazing job Jason, I just have a few clarifying questions for when you have the time.

There are numbers before the month that I assume are monthly payments made to construct a building. Given that this is true then:

That is correct. If it says 6 BP/3 months, that means 6 BP paid each month for 3 months.

Tsuji-Giri wrote:

A. Why do some buildings cost more when spread out over time but others don't?

If memory serves, that only ended up happening a few times, when the math didn't come out to make a neatly divisible monthly cost. I think one of the official buildings costs 58 BP. How do you divide that up into 8 or 10 identically sized portions?

In those cases, I nudged the price a few BP to make it come out in a nicely divisible number.

Tsuji-Giri wrote:

B. What happens if the city halts construction for a month or more?

Then the building doesn't get built until they finish. Not much different than real life, where you may end up with vacant or half-done buildings sitting idle when the developer pulls out or abandons a project. Some get finished. Some never do.

I suppose to be REALLY realistic, I could include a rule about vacant half-done buildings attracting Squatter or Vandal events, or about depreciating your investment for every month the project languishes.

Tsuji-Giri wrote:

And in regard to populations, it seems far reduced from the original rules . Right now my players have a town that went from a population of 3500 to 350. This also means that when they change to a "city" they will have around 1000 people, which according to the settlement rules places them in the small town category, and when they would have multiple district they may still only have the population of a small city. Is this an error or is this intentional?

This is intentional.

It's intentional to help you replicate something much closer to the actual cities and towns described in adventures and supplements. Look at a town like Tatzlford in Blood for Blood - in the adventure, it's a village of 186 people. But it has a Brewery, Brothel, 4 Houses, an Inn, Library, Shop, Smith, Tavern, Temple, Town Hall, and Tradesman. By the official KM rules, that would be 16 squares of buildings, making Tatzlford a small city of 4,000 people.

Now, even with our rules it's still going to come out with more than 186 people, but it's not going to be over 20 times that population number.

My intent was to shrink the physical size (suggesting town lots 200 x 200 feet instead of 750 x 750) and population size of the cities created using these rules to something that felt more typical of a medieval village, city, or town.

If you want to boost the population numbers, you could rule that in a metropolis the population triples instead of doubles as in a city. You could also start packing your cities with more houses and tenements with neighborhood business buildings and you'll start increasing your population density.

Tsuji-Giri wrote:

Thank you again for this book. The new edict rules are fantastic as well as the exotic settlements and the everything else. I will definitely be giving this high reviews when the product store comes out!

Glad you are enjoying it. Looking forward to seeing your review!

[Alexander Augunas]

Maybe a rule where a Lot is worth more people based on the settlement's size would be worthwhile.

For example, maybe one lot is worth 5 people in a village, 25 in a town, 125 in a city, and then the full 250 in a metropolis.

[Jason Nelson]

Those rules are already included in great detail in Ultimate Rulership. Lot population varies by the type of building you put in it, and that base population is halved in a village, as is in a town, and doubled in a city.

I think a good rule for a metropolis would be that the multiplier would be equal to the number of districts in the city (so still 2x for a 2-district city, 3x in a 3-district city, etc.).

[Thanael]

CalebTGordan wrote:

I like the exotic settlements. We were trying to figure out how to do a cavern based city for some kobolds not long ago.

We are also thinking of a traveling gypsy settlement, with each "building" being a wagon or a large tent. We would have to use common sense on what buildings just wouldn't work, and the settlement would be able to move around the kingdom.

How do these rules interface with GMGs settlement rules? (Haven't read the kingdom building rules from the AP yet)

[Jason Nelson]

Thanael wrote:

CalebTGordan wrote:

I like the exotic settlements. We were trying to figure out how to do a cavern based city for some kobolds not long ago.

We are also thinking of a traveling gypsy settlement, with each "building" being a wagon or a large tent. We would have to use common sense on what buildings just wouldn't work, and the settlement would be able to move around the kingdom.

How do these rules interface with GMGs settlement rules? (Haven't read the kingdom building rules from the AP yet)

They are completely integrated with them, including incorporating settlement-based modifiers into aggregate kingdom scores.

[Dark_Mistress]

Sounds cool and good luck with the new web site.

[Bubba Bugbear]

Loving the PDF so far; one question, though...
The Lumberyard is listed as reducing the cost of Sawmills in the same or adjacent hexes to 3 BP. The only source that I see the Sawmill in is Ultimate Campaign (p 211), where it is listed as costing 3 BP. Am I missing something, or is this a typo? I assume the intent was to reduce the cost of Sawmills to 2 BP (?) but wanted to be sure, as we're converting our KM kingdom over to the Ultimate Campaign/Ultimate Rulership rules. Thanks!

[Jason Nelson]

Thanks for catching that typo. It is supposed to be reduces cost to 2 BP.

I'll send that along to Tim.

[Chernobyl]

Love that Ultimate Campaign and Ultimate Rulership are adding to the Kingdom Building rules...does anyone know if they actually fix the kingdom economy mechanism?

[Jason Nelson]

Yes, they do!

[Eric Hinkle]

I've been looking through the PDF, I like it a lot, though my sole complaint (and it's not much of one) is that I do wish there were a few more 'empty hex' developments/improvements. Towns, villages, and cities are all cool, bit it can be amusing to see what else you can stick in empty hexes aside from farms.

It's not a big thing. There's a great list in 'Book of the River Nations', and I love a lot of what I'm seeing, but still, a few ideas would have been nice.

[Jason Nelson]

I figured the 12 hex improvements that I wrote up in Ultimate Campaign covered the major bases with Aqueduct, Bridge, Canal, Farm, Fishery, Fort, Highway, Mine, Quarry, Road, Sawmill, and Watchtower. There comes a time in every product when you just have to say STOP even if you have more ideas, because there are is a limit to how much you can put in one product and because there are always other products to do. But what doesn't come up in one place may resurface in another.

For what it's worth, BoRN's list has 11 hex improvements, 5 of which are already included in the list above. The remaining six improvements are the Apiary, Herbal Cultivar, Royal Reserve, Reservoir, Signal Tower, and Winery, and certainly you could use those along with the from UCam.

[Eric Hinkle]

Yeah, I'd forgotten about the expanded list in Ultimate Campaign, sorry about that. The Fishery is certainly a welcome idea; before UCam I'd wondered if I should just house-rule something like that as a farm or what.

Thank you for pointing those out.

[Teiidae]

Im just hoping there are more Rulership positions.

[Jason Nelson]

Alas, no new rulership positions.

I had already added three more to the list in Ultimate Campaign (the Consort, Heir, and Viceroy), and given that a typical party is only going to be 4-6 PCs, I didn't want to push the balance too far in favor of NPCs in kingdom rulership positions. The PCs are already outnumbered as it is. Adding too many more positions would make that problem even worse.

[Teiidae]

Hey i understand, slightly sucks i have a party of 8 and most of them have retrainers which they want positions for, i dont want to just say flat out no to them. Oh well i shall just homebrew some positions, i still cant wait to see what will be added in ultimate rulership.

[Thanael]

Jason Nelson wrote:

Thanael wrote:

CalebTGordan wrote:

I like the exotic settlements. We were trying to figure out how to do a cavern based city for some kobolds not long ago.

We are also thinking of a traveling gypsy settlement, with each "building" being a wagon or a large tent. We would have to use common sense on what buildings just wouldn't work, and the settlement would be able to move around the kingdom.

How do these rules interface with GMGs settlement rules? (Haven't read the kingdom building rules from the AP yet)

They are completely integrated with them, including incorporating settlement-based modifiers into aggregate kingdom scores.

Thanks. And does Ultimate Campaign or your product add to the GMG settlement rules too, for example new qualities?

[Jason Nelson]

Thanael wrote:

Jason Nelson wrote:

Thanael wrote:

CalebTGordan wrote:

I like the exotic settlements. We were trying to figure out how to do a cavern based city for some kobolds not long ago.

We are also thinking of a traveling gypsy settlement, with each "building" being a wagon or a large tent. We would have to use common sense on what buildings just wouldn't work, and the settlement would be able to move around the kingdom.

How do these rules interface with GMGs settlement rules? (Haven't read the kingdom building rules from the AP yet)

They are completely integrated with them, including incorporating settlement-based modifiers into aggregate kingdom scores.

Thanks. And does Ultimate Campaign or your product add to the GMG settlement rules too, for example new qualities?

UC itself does not add any new GMG settlement rules (though it renames "Economy" as a settlement modifier to "Productivity" to avoid duplication of the "Economy" kingdom score).

Ultimate Rulership does not create new settlement traits or modifiers, but it does integrate the vastly expanded list of settlement traits available on d20pfsrd.com into the system, rather than using just the ones found in the GMG, and it reorganizes settlement traits into categories and as an alternative/companion rule set to the standard monthly kingdom events.

[Heitor]

About the military recruitment,

UR states that militia is lvl 1 Warriors and professional soldiers are lvl 2 Fighters, and elites are lvl 3 warriors (same CR as lvl 2 fighters) or lvl 2 other fighting classes.
Shouldn't it be that professional soldiers are lvl 2 warriors? Else the lvl 3 warriors as elites don't make much sense.

Also, on the higher level elite table (should it be A6?) it is not clear exactly how it diminishes the number of "normal" elites. A lvl 5 elite is considered 5 normal elites? If my elite limit is 100 I can either recruit 100 lvl 2 rogues or 20 lvl 5?

On other note, I really like the Espionage rules. Is there any counter-espionage measures? I just bought the book and haven't read past page 8 yet XD

Edit: And why July 1st? I need the mass combat expansion for next week!! =p

[Rathendar]

hmm, the preview earlier cinched this for me after i finished my skim of UltCamp when i got it. will be picking this up this weekend. Thanks for your work.

[Heitor]

Oh, c'mon, I just lost a huge edit ><
Well, the thing is, building with BP/month costs present the problem that things now take as much time to build as if it was using the Downtime system from UC, but cost absurdly more.

Eg., a castle costs 7,390 GP on downtime and takes 12 months to build in downtime, but 5 BP/month for the same 12 months, anything from 60,000 to 240,000 total, depending on kingdom size.

Is it intended or just a disassociation with the downtime system?

On a side note, could we consider the BP/month cost as consumption? So a kingdom with a lot of consumption reducers like farms and fisheries could lessen that cost? And would the magical discount (Lyre of Construction, being a dragon with stone shape at will) apply every month or only once, as it UC?

[LMPjr007]

When will this be available at RPGNow?

[Jason Nelson]

Heitor wrote:

Oh, c'mon, I just lost a huge edit ><

Well, the thing is, building with BP/month costs present the problem that things now take as much time to build as if it was using the Downtime system from UC, but cost absurdly more.

Eg., a castle costs 7,390 GP on downtime and takes 12 months to build in downtime, but 5 BP/month for the same 12 months, anything from 60,000 to 240,000 total, depending on kingdom size.

Is it intended or just a disassociation with the downtime system?

On a side note, could we consider the BP/month cost as consumption? So a kingdom with a lot of consumption reducers like farms and fisheries could lessen that cost? And would the magical discount (Lyre of Construction, being a dragon with stone shape at will) apply every month or only once, as it UC?

When writing my chapter of Ultimate Campaign, I had no idea what the downtime rules would be. I knew there was a section dealing with downtime, but that was about it. These rules therefore take into account nothing from the downtime system.

I don't think it's unreasonable to rule monthly construction cost as consumption, though there's a strange quirkiness to FARMS then becoming the most essential terrain improvement when it comes to undergirding construction. If you were to go that route, you would probably want to change sawmills to work like farms to reduce consumption for wooden buildings and quarries to do the same for stone buildings. You could do it, but I think you'd want to adjust some other rules at the same time.

As for magic items and spells making construction cheaper, again the simplest path is to stick with the published version, which is that magical stuff applies once per building, period. However, with building spread over multiple months, I think it's rational to allow magical building to apply multiple times to the same building; in this case, I'd probably suggest you move the "magical building stuff bonus" to be once per month rather than once per building.

As an addendum, you could rule that the standard rate of 2 BP is assuming one week of work, which is the standard required amount of rulership activities. Therefore, you could in theory realize 2 BP per week of devoted magical building time. This would also be a logical place to factor in magical buildings. Perhaps a Caster's Tower allows one additional week of magical building in that city per month, a Magical Academy two, etc., or allow exchange of magic item slots for magical construction benefits.

Anything in this vein could work as an alternate rule.

[Jason Nelson]

LMPjr007 wrote:

When will this be available at RPGNow?

Should be available tomorrow evening, or Saturday at the latest. But you can get it here right now! :)

[Thanael]

Jason Nelson wrote:

UC itself does not add any new GMG settlement rules (though it renames "Economy" as a settlement modifier to "Productivity" to avoid duplication of the "Economy" kingdom score).

Ultimate Rulership does not create new settlement traits or modifiers, but it does integrate the vastly expanded list of settlement traits available on d20pfsrd.com into the system, rather than using just the ones found in the GMG, and it reorganizes settlement traits into categories and as an alternative/companion rule set to the standard monthly kingdom events.

Huh? I wasn't aware that there's more traits on d20pfsrd than in GMG. Where do those come from?

[Tarondor]

So... has anyone written up a unified document between Ultimate Rulership and the kingdom-building rules in Ultimate Campaign, and would that be kosher if they weren't selling it for profit?

[LMPjr007]

Thanael wrote:

Huh? I wasn't aware that there's more traits on d20pfsrd than in GMG. Where do those come from?

from Cityscapes -New Settlement Options for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game by Skortched Urf' Studios.

[Chernobyl]

Jason Nelson wrote:

Alas, no new rulership positions.

I had already added three more to the list in Ultimate Campaign (the Consort, Heir, and Viceroy), and given that a typical party is only going to be 4-6 PCs, I didn't want to push the balance too far in favor of NPCs in kingdom rulership positions. The PCs are already outnumbered as it is. Adding too many more positions would make that problem even worse.

I've been toying around with running Kingmaker, and I've been thinking of adding a Council of Mayors (from all the towns you wind up building), and that would be a good place to put NPC's and Retainers.

[Jason Nelson]

Tarondor wrote:

So... has anyone written up a unified document between Ultimate Rulership and the kingdom-building rules in Ultimate Campaign, and would that be kosher if they weren't selling it for profit?

If you're referring to game mechanics, those are published under the OGL and are Open Content.

If you're referring to descriptive text, or anything specifically designated as not being Open Content, that's not Open Content.

A good rule of thumb is that if it's been posted up on a site like d20pfsrd or the Archives of Nethys, it's probably fair game for you to repackage. If it's not, it's generally not kosher even if you're giving it away, since being able to get it for free from you makes some people less inclined to want to pay the original creators to get it from them.

You can, of course, do anything you like for your own personal use, but posting it publicly without proper permissions, not so much. You can always ask the content creators for permission, specifying what you intend to do, and see what they say.