We are just about to start Racing to Ruin. To my surprise, the PCs are looking to align themselves with the Red Mantis faction.
In my mind, the Red Mantis have one primary goal, and that is to find the artifact. I had originally planned to have them create a base to slowly explore the city, and occasionally come into conflict with the other factions. I was toying with the idea of having them be the first faction to make an alliance with the lillend. Once the artifact was located, I had originally planned on having them leave.
Now that the PCs, may be with them, I kind of feel like the Red Mantis would most likely kill off the PCs to prevent loose lips. I don't think they'd have a big interest in exploring the rest of the city, and certainly would have no interest in a regular base of operations.
Any ideas or thoughts on how this could pan out?
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I don't think there is any special reason that the artifact has to be where it is at. I would say move the mantis blade to Ilmurea somewhere. Where the blade would have been put evidence that a priest of Acheblahblah carried the blade down off to battle Serpentfolk in their city somewhere, but don't mention that the city is underneath. Then when the PCs learn of Ilmurea the Assassins will have reason to want to explore that city as well.
By the time the PCs emerge from Ilurmea with the blade the imminent danger the serpentfolk should be enough to encourage the RM assassins to participate to the end.
The Morlocks could have the blade as they are former Azlanti, or they could have lost it to the Urdefhan or the Serpentfolk, or even the Vemerak or something.
Thanks. I think I'll run with that.
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One thing I did to keep the Red Mantis in the city until the end was add several large chambers inside the ziggurat. Instead of the Mantis Blade being in the wall, Lessikal's stoneshape was concealing a set of stairs leading down to the chambers. The walls below were covered with thousands of ancient prayers to Achaekek that the Mantis would need a LONG time to fully record... probably years. Thus they would be sticking around for a while.
Also at the ends of the chambers was a warded vault. This was where the Mantis Blade was kept. Key phrases to the vault were scattered throughout the other six districts of the city so the Mantis faction scouts had a reason to keep exploring the city even after they located the Temple. They needed the keys to penetrate the vault.
This set up also motivated the Red Mantis to stick around in book 6 and join the PCs' army to stop the threat in Ilmurea. The Mantis didn't want these holy chambers of Achaekek to fall into serpentfolk hands if they rose up and conquered the surface world here.
Shrug. Just how I did it.
One thing I did to keep the Red Mantis in the city until the end was add several large chambers inside the ziggurat. Instead of the Mantis Blade being in the wall, Lessikal's stoneshape was concealing a set of stairs leading down to the chambers. The walls below were covered with thousands of ancient prayers to Achaekek that the Mantis would need a LONG time to fully record... probably years. Thus they would be sticking around for a while.
Also at the ends of the chambers was a warded vault. This was where the Mantis Blade was kept. Key phrases to the vault were scattered throughout the other six districts of the city so the Mantis faction scouts had a reason to keep exploring the city even after they located the Temple. They needed the keys to penetrate the vault.
This set up also motivated the Red Mantis to stick around in book 6 and join the PCs' army to stop the threat in Ilmurea. The Mantis didn't want these holy chambers of Achaekek to fall into serpentfolk hands if they rose up and conquered the surface world here.
Shrug. Just how I did it.
Thanks. I like that idea too.
Well, this ended up playing out differently than I thought it would. The group landed in Eleder, and left the docks by themselves. They immediately sought out the library to start some research. On the second day, Sasha appears and lets them know that her employer would like to meet them. They group meets with Chivane, but they politely decline her assistance. Perhaps I played up Sasha’s nervousness too much, or the group just decided they couldn’t side with assassins.
So they figure out the location of Tazion, and get an idea of where the other factions are at. Since they had been so tight lipped about everything, the Pathfinders had just set sail for the Shiv, and the Aspis were getting ready themselves. The PCs decided to make the trek on their own. One of the PCs background was as a Mwangi native (Ranger), so they wanted to move fast. They bought enough supplies for 6 months of traveling (just in case) along with horses. They also decided to go through the foothills north of Kabuto and the Screaming Jungle to avoid well-traveled routes.
With this in mind, I estimated the closest faction would be the Red Mantis only because they decided to follow the PCs. The other factions who actually investigated the Shiv on their own would be at least 1 to 2 weeks behind. I’m guessing they should actually be closer to 3 weeks ahead of the other factions.
They did a great job of avoiding some encounters in favor of keeping a steady march, and then once in Tazion, they kept the moonstones to futher slow down anyone following them.
I may allow the group a full 4 weeks of exploration before any factions arrive (besides the Red Mantis). I suspect this is the part which will get hard for them without a supporting faction. They don’t have any resources for selling stuff, and haven’t really had much opportunity to upgrade equipment as they wanted to get moving.
Any thoughts?
There is talk of a Mwangi Faction here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ptux?Creating-a-Mwangi-Faction
There is talk of a Mwangi Faction here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2ptux?Creating-a-Mwangi-Faction
Thanks, and I saw that. However, they don't seem very interested in any faction really. They did a really good job of getting there first and protecting what they knew. I just don't know how they're going to hold onto their discovery once the other factions start showing up, even if I do give them four weeks to explore without competition.
Also since they are already past Tazion, I'm not sure adding a Mwangi faction will really add any value at this point. The one PC who is a Mwangi native, hasn't shown much interest in the politics between Sargava and the native population.
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Well once they get there, they should realize that a small party just isn't going to be able to cart away all the discoveries from an entire lost city... that's what they needed the faction for.
Oh and to get the fame and fortune for discovering the city they'll need to cart off a city's worth of stuff. I mean anyone can CLAIM to have found Saventh-Yhi. Only when you roll up with tons of stuff are they really going to believe you, right?
So, I'd say give the party their 4 weeks of exploration. Allow them to get first choice on camp location (obviously) and begin to pacify districts. Also describe the tons of stuff (plaques, statues, carvings, etc) that they're not going to be able to reasonably move without supply caravans. Hopefully by the time the Factions start arriving, the PCs will realize they need them. Reward their fast work with camp bonuses for any clearing out they've done already and probably upping the initial faction reward offers considerably (a value to match and be useful to their new levels for sure).
Just one way I'd suggest doing it.
Just one way I'd suggest doing it.
Thanks. That sounds pretty similar to how I was thinking, and gives me some affirmation that I'm not out in left field.
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Thanks. That sounds pretty similar to how I was thinking, and gives me some affirmation that I'm not out in left field.
You're welcome! And I got thinking about this a bit more.
You would be well within your rights to say that some of the factions that arrive in Saventh-Yhi (probably the later arriving factions) actually start with LOWER scores if you want. Have the faction leaders describe how they were brutalized by every encounter out there since they didn't have the PCs as trailblazers. That's what the PCs were being hired for: to take out encounters in front of the caravan. Without them, the factions could have lost a lot of goods/animals/porters on the way to the city.And the factions that arrive not too long after the PCs probably needed to go out and get trailblazers of their own. That just screams rival adventuring party in the city, if you wanted to go that route. Might help to give a bit of direction/excitement to Book 3 (which can fall flat without the DM spicing things up.)
My own players had an alliance with the Pathfinders/Pirates and were in a sort of "cold war" with the Consortium in the city. Neither side wanted their camps to start directly attacking each other, but they certainly did everything they could to mess with Ishirou and his Consortium crew every time they saw them out exploring. It was actually MORE difficult to slow them down without actually killing them (and escalating a conflict.)
Just tossin' out a few more ideas. Let's the PCs know they really were needed ("Wow, they really got beaten up without us clearing the way...") but let's them know they aren't irreplaceable ("Hey! Those guys went and got adventurer/trailblazers of their own?")
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There's no reason that the PC's couldn't still join a faction later. If there was one faction they were considering, maybe have the PC's encounter that faction in a skirmish with another (rival) faction and see what they choose to do. I know you said the PC's decided not to go with the Red Mantis, but if they choose to later, the organization might not kill them off if they believe that the adventurers could be useful at a later date. I had Chivane approach the PC's from a different angle: Yes, people say we are evil, but really our deity was created to serve all the others. So in a way, we already work for your deity, Mr. Cleric. Clearly, you should ally with us.
Good stuff
Yes, I like that too. Luckily, I have plenty of time before we play this again, maybe a couple months. I should have time to create a few more competing adventurers, though I may have enough with what I have happening.
The time schedule will be something like this.
Day 1 = PCs arrive in Savinth-Yhi
Day 2 = Red Mantis Arrives
Day 31 = Pathfinders arrive
Day 35 = Aspis Consortium arrives
Day 39 = Free Captains arrive
Day 42 = Sargavan Government arrives
Day 46 = Mzali War Party arrives
Day 50 = Immortal Court of Zura awakens
The last two events will be rather flexible, and I may change when the Mzali show up and when the vampires awaken.
There's no reason that the PC's couldn't still join a faction later. If there was one faction they were considering, maybe have the PC's encounter that faction in a skirmish with another (rival) faction and see what they choose to do. I know you said the PC's decided not to go with the Red Mantis, but if they choose to later, the organization might not kill them off if they believe that the adventurers could be useful at a later date. I had Chivane approach the PC's from a different angle: Yes, people say we are evil, but really our deity was created to serve all the others. So in a way, we already work for your deity, Mr. Cleric. Clearly, you should ally with us.
Oh, I agree. I expect them to eventually side with one faction or another eventually, especially when they realize they don't have
1. a way to sell items2. access to continuous supplies
3. guards for a base camp
4. a viable means to purchase equipment
I will also have Chivane be a little more diplomatic when they meet again. I really wasn't trying to have her be menacing in the first meeting, but I may have played up her coldness too much. She also didn't know what the PCs were up too when they first met, she was just very curious about all the attention other groups were giving to them and the Shiv.
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In summary, I’ll probably use the following for rough guidelines on how the factions will act and react to the PCs.
The Red Mantis = Now that they know of the existence of Savinth-Yhi, Chivane’s primary goal is to recover the Mantis Blade. This blade may be in Savinth-Yhi, but I may move it to Ilumurea. They won’t be overly aggressive to any faction, focusing more on exploring and watching what others uncover. If someone else finds the blade, they’ll raid that faction, and possibly leave. If they discover a temple to Red Mantis and valuable writings / glyphs / things to study, they may stick around.
The Pathfinders = My group is a little adversarial with the Pathfinders due to poor diplomatic relations with Gelik. This may change, but for now he is the gnome they love to hate. Otherwise the Pathfinders will be exploring in earnest and will most likely align themselves with a city faction, possibly promising to help expel the other invaders (Aspis or Sargavan) in exchange for rights to explore peacefully.
Aspis Consortium = They are all about looting the city and getting as much profit as they can. They will make an alignment with the ape-men, but that will dissolve into conflict rather quickly when both sides lose patience with each other. They will be the second most aggressive faction; openly attacking other factions if they have the upper hand, and stealing whenever possible. Their tactics will involve securing or clearing out as much area as possible to stake a claim, removing obvious valuables first, and only doing a thorough exploration once they have control.
The Sargavan Military – For this faction, this is primarily a military expedition. They will be the most armed and numerous faction. They are laying claim on this land in the name of the Sargavan government. They will destroy anyone or anything that opposes them. Fortunately for the other factions, they attack the serpent folk section rather early and get caught up in a stand off. It will be clear that once the Sargavan’s defeat the serpent folk, another faction will be next.
The Free Captains = These guys are just looking for gold. They are the least organized, but have great local trading connections along the riverways. They get hit hard by the Sargavans at first, but move on quickly as they are not really interested in open conflict. They really have the most to offer and gain from an alliance with the PCs.
The Mzali = This war party is only interested in killing off all of the foreigners who have invaded their land. The fact that this isn’t part of their land, doesn’t stop them. They will block off the main entrance to the city, and cause a lot of problems getting supplies and equipment in and out.
The Vampires of Zura = This group was put in stasis as part of a plan to re-take the city once the Earthfall was over, but heroes destroyed much of the runes meant to awaken them. Since then, the mummies and other undead that still patrol their catacombs and temple, have kept anyone from triggering their release. Now that will change when someone gets deep enough into their complex.