My question is "how"?
I mean, it would make sense for a magical character to dispel a magical trap, but how does a martial character (like the rogue) accomplish this?
Is disabling a magical trap like "Use Magic Device"? Are you just that cool? With a wink, snap of the finger, or tilt of the head, the trap is defeated?
But wouldn't that require a Charisma check versus the creator of the trap? A pseudo-dispel attempt made against the trap, replacing caster level with the number of levels attained in the trapfinder class? Something?
/headache
The way I have always figured that part of creating a magical trap is etching runes or similar symbols on the item to be trapped. The symbols may not be visible but they are still there. I seem to remember there being a rule that if two magical traps were in the same area they became a lot easier to spot due to some kind of flicker effect.
A mundane way to disable could involve scratching the runes at the right spot. Another way would be to use a substance that is detrimental to magic to short out the trap. Maybe cold iron as it is traditionally considered to be able to neutralize magic.
Perhaps, but what if the symbols are concealed? The same thing has always bothered me about mechanical traps, to be honest. Even a simple pressure plate would be difficult to disarm, because although the trigger mechanism is visible, the reset mechanism is almost certainly hidden beneath the floor, ceiling or wall.
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Consider that trapfinding is not required to SPOT a magical trap. Merely to disarm it. There is some visible effect that characters can notice. The classes with trapfinding have a knowledge of how to disable those sorts of traps. Most traps are built with alarm as the trigger. Alarm is an abjuration spell. Abjuration spells have this clause in the magic section: "If one abjuration spell is active within 10 feet of another for 24 hours or more, the magical fields interfere with each other and create barely visible energy fluctuations. The DC to find such spells with the Perception skill drops by 4."
I think that is where Mysterious is heading with traps near each other being easier to see.
The symbols are always concealed. That is why there is a perception check to spot them. If it wasn't hidden, it isn't much of a trap now is it?
Yeah, that's always bothered me as well.
For things like pressure plates, it could be something like shoving something of just the right thickness, strength, and flexibility into a gap below/around the plate to prevent it from being depressed, while also making sure that you don't accidentally press down on the plate while trying to disable it.
Magical traps, though...I dunno.
And covered pits. I mean, how does one disable a covered pit?
Dump truck?
And covered pits. I mean, how does one disable a covered pit?
... Pull the cover off? Now its not a hidden trap, its just a gap people have to figure out a way over.
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*whaps the trap*
Ehhhhhhhhhh
*puts two thumbs up*
Even a simple pressure plate would be difficult to disarm, because although the trigger mechanism is visible, the reset mechanism is almost certainly hidden beneath the floor, ceiling or wall.
You're over thinking it. He doesn't have to mess with the mechanism, he just has to stop the pressure plate from working. He could pry the plate up with a crowbar. Or jam the hole the spears shoot from. Or lay some planks over the plate so it's not depressed when stepped on. Or any number of things that would stop it from working without delicate wall surgery.
As for magical traps, magical traps are obviously visible and have some kind of trigger. Messing with the magical sensor would do it. Chipping the runes off. Maybe even just sovereign glue some paper over the glyphs so you can't read them anymore. Faking the password? There's lots of ways--maybe your Rogue needs to be more creative.
Ah, the age old "you're doing it wrong" or "learn to play" remark. Definitely what this thread needed!
Ah, the age old "you're doing it wrong" or "learn to play" remark. Definitely what this thread needed!
I'm not sure I get what you're saying here? You asked for how can a rogue disarm a magical trap. The answer is "because the rules say so." You are free to describe/fluff it however you want. If you don't like the suggestions people are offering, make up your own fluff that you do like. Alternately, houserule that everybody/nobody can disarm them. Whatever makes you happy.
My point is that the rules are incredibly vague on the topic. It's not very helpful to shift the blame unto the player, stating that they need be more creative.
The rules could be clearer on how exactly disabling traps (especially of the magical variety) works. Hence, the confusion.
My point is that the rules are incredibly vague on the topic. It's not very helpful to shift the blame unto the player, stating that they need be more creative.
The rules could be clearer on how exactly disabling traps (especially of the magical variety) works. Hence, the confusion.
It works by the character having the trapfinding ability, and the player rolling a d20 and adding the relevant modifers and the DM comparing the result to the trap DC to disable.
How the player and DM want to describe the in-game aspect is entirely up to them to decide. Make it whatever makes you happy and have fun.
My group? We usually say the rogue "fiddles" with it for a bit and says its safe to pass. Sometimes it blows up in his face while he is fiddling.
@ blackbloodtroll: I'm not angry, I just don't appreciate the insulation that I'm somehow incompetent or unimaginative (or that those I game with might be). It's not helpful and reeks of ad hominem.
The game is all about imagination, surely--but just as I've never defended a town from an orcish invasion, I've never disabled a trap (let alone a magical one).
The rules are, perhaps intentionally, vague for these very same reasons (I doubt the designers were expert lockpicks or engineers, for example).
That's why I created the thread.
I don't mean to sound ungrateful to those that have posted.
Some of the responses have been helpful. I probably should have responded some to the more helpful bits, but I didn't. I responded to the one post which annoyed me. I probably should have ignored it, but I didn't, adding to the negatively--negativity I may full well have imagined.
Whatever the case, please don't let my latest comments distract from the original post.
@ Tarantula: My group has largely resolved traps in the same way, but I'm interested in more in-depth explanations of how the trapfinding ability works. Having the rogue chip away at magical symbols or producing an abjuration-riddled stone to interfere with the trap's "field" of magic is interesting. Those are the sorts of things I'm interested in hearing (thanks, by the way).
Consider also that rogues are able to pick up the rogue talents of minor/major magic. Its almost like they have some magical ability, but only focus on the trap disabling aspect of it (unless they pick up those talents).
I dunno. Asking "how does a rogue trapfind" is almost the same as asking "how does a fighter use weapon training". They practice at being able to do it better than a different class that doesn't get the ability.
If you look at the skill descriptions for disable device:
A rogue who beats a trap's DC by 10 or more can study the trap, figure out how it works, and bypass it without disarming it. A rogue can rig a trap so her allies can bypass it as well.
Restriction: Characters with the trapfinding ability (like rogues) can disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the level of the spell used to create it.
The spells fire trap, glyph of warding, symbol, and teleportation circle also create traps that a rogue can disarm with a successful Disable Device check. Spike growth and spike stones, however, create magic hazards against which Disable Device checks do not succeed. See the individual spell descriptions for details.
Guess what. Due to that language there, only rogues are able to bypass a trap without completely disarming it. Even to the point of changing the way the trap was setup to allow the rogues allies to pass.
I see it as rogues study stealth and disabling over spells and casting. They understand enough magic that UMD is a class skill for them, they can pick up minor/major magic as a rogue talent, and they are able to use very minor magic to tweak the trigger spells on magical traps to change who is allowed past, or delete the trigger all together.
Perhaps there is some magic to the rogue. Still, understanding how something works, especially magic, would be governed by Intelligence, and yet Use Magic Device is Charisma-based. If trapfinding is similarly rooted in the rogue's latent magical ability, it would have nothing at all to do with studying the magical effects of the trap. The rogue would just feel it out (as per a sorcerer, invoking imagery of the Fonz).
Maybe that's not such a bad thing, though.
Ask a rogue how he does what he does, he might respond, The rest of the party just doesn't ask questions! Kinda nifty, thematically.
the rogue messes up the runes in a way that are so incredibly stupid that no arcanist would even think of trying it.
the rogue messes up the runes in a way that are so incredibly stupid that no arcanist would even think of trying it.
I like that one.
I can't help but think of the Doctor waving around his screwdriver, uttering nonsensical science-talk.