| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, has anyone started considering ways to use the new Ultimate Campaign kingdom-building stuff in their Kingmaker campaign? Did you/are you gonna convert your kingdoms to the new building stats?
Maybe we could start working on numbers for trade agreements. Has anyone estimated the distance from the Kamelands to the River Kingdoms?
Um, the Stolen Lands ARE in the River Kingdoms.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Same here. Don't have the book yet, but it will depend on my KM groups. Don't see KM1 rerolling everything, but KM2 is only half a year old so I might adjust it. Still, would love a good Excell sheet or not going to happen :P
Lazy DM is lazy (when it comes to accountancy) :p
What they said. Soon as the PDF is available I'll likely be snatching it up and updating my players' available resources immediately.
The Kingdom building in Ultimate Campaign seems to be a strange mix of things I'd already done because they were obvious (hex improvements other than farms, rebalancing the economy to ditch the magic item element), while adding more detail to bits I'd already simplified (such as adding more building types after I'd cut the list down by about half).
I am likely to add one or two of the hex improvements I hadn't already thought of, but apart from that I don't think there's anything in that section I can use.
I haven't looked at the mass combat rules yet, and that's the part I really don't like in Kingmaker so I'm hoping the Ultimate Campaign version will be an improvement.
I haven't looked at the mass combat rules yet, and that's the part I really don't like in Kingmaker so I'm hoping the Ultimate Campaign version will be an improvement.
Yeah, same. Though I imagine that it won't make much of a difference for my group - we don't do mass combat, we just use the army rules to determine how much trouble the PCs will have navigating their way through the wartorn battlefield to make their way to the commanding officers or other notable members of the opposition. >_>
we don't do mass combat, we just use the army rules to determine how much trouble the PCs will have navigating their way through the wartorn battlefield to make their way to the commanding officers or other notable members of the opposition. >_>
That was kind of how I was planning to run it. After all, that's what high level characters are for. However, there are potentially some situations where two battles can be running simultaneously, or they happen before the PCs can react, and those are the ones that the rules are there for.
I like the idea of running a battle as a single combat, it's just the right level of abstraction, but I'm not convinced by the implementation.
I hope someone gets those things up to the SRD soon.
I'm on board for this.
It's a early, I've only paged through Ultimate Campaign. But my Kingmaker PCs are only about halfway through Book 1, so I'm sure I'll be putting all of this to work.
I look forward to collaborating with you all! Thanks Rune for creating a centralized thread for it.
I'm wondering about implementation of stuff from the random exploration tables. Things like "difficult hex" and "hunting grounds" didn't exist in vanilla KM, right?
What would be better... to randomly determine these modifiers upon party entry, or plan placement in advance?
They did not.
I can see benefits to both. Depends how much the GM prefers lots of pre-prep to ad-libbing.
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
It was nice to see trade and diplomatic edicts shown in the rules in UCAM. I was a bit disappointed in how simplistic they were, but then again, I like complex, which is not everyone's stein of beer (I don't drink tea).
Viceroys and heirs were nice additions to the kingdom roles.
My players, eager to farm the crap out of every hex the druid lets them, will go nuts over the new fish farm hex improvement. The only thing stopping their kingdom from becoming Kansas is the druid throwing fits about them disturbing ancient animal migration patterns.
I REALLY like the addition of +1 BP to some of the improvements during the taxation phase, like mines.
Haven't dug into mass combat yet, so I would love to hear if there were any changes there from anyone who has read it.
In order not to derail the thread, I will post my other thoughts in a spoiler....
I absolutely adore the Talismanic section under magic creation, but I was extremely disappointed to only find a handful of special items. Lists of rare and exotic items to assign to magic creation is one of my current struggles at the moment. There were a few lists of fantastic items (like hen's teeth, the sound of silence, etc) listed in the old 2nd ed magic user's players guide, but otherwise, its fairly barren. It is hard to come up with special ingredients that are rare, expensive, and challenging in the quantities necessary to cover a wide variety of misc items.
If anyone has a good source for this let me know. I would love to establish currencies within my Witch market. Right now, Orphan's tears, Tears of Innoncence lost, Martyr's anguish, Essence of Faith, souls, voices, and talents are all coin of the realm in the witch market (besides the obvious gold, gems, magic items, etc).
which is not everyone's stein of beer (I don't drink tea).
I'll take yours, you can have the alcohol I won't be touching.
My FLGS hadn't received their shipment yet, so I'm depending on you guys to "hook me up"! Give more! Daddy needs his shot of UCa :D
Look up the main Product Discussion thread. It's the one you see at the bottom if you go to the UCam product page. There's lots of info.
I found the diplomatic edicts reasonable, the trade is a little too complicated for my tastes (on only one paragraph the author creates three new terms for the system - TRL, RM, LM). I hope we can arrive at a consensus for, let's say, how many hexes there are between the southern border of KM's map to Mivon. I know it would make my work real easier.
Our map has Mivon 3 or 4 hexes off the bottom of the map.
So by our estimates, Mivon's "claimed borders" (the River Kingdoms map) are the southern shore of Candlemere!
Jovoxx(?) is about the same distance below the overlap edges of the Greenbelt & Dunsward maps.
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you're looking to implement the new kingdom-building rules with your KM campaign, you really should look into the new Ultimate Rulership product from Legendary Games, which has a metric ton of ideas I wasn't able to fit into UCam. Should be available for purchase tomorrow, barring any last-minute layout issues.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
|
Hero Lab is going to have an add-on that allows you to manage your kingdom using the Ultimate Campaign rules. I hope it won't be too complicated to create .user files for it because that is probably going to end up being what we use. Everyone in that group uses HL.
I think they just renamed "Brothel" into "Dance Hall" and still left over a few mentions here and there.
Really? Would be awesome, but it's probably paying again. And I would prefer the excel, since I can change things the way I want them to.
Really? Would be awesome, but it's probably paying again. And I would prefer the excel, since I can change things the way I want them to.
I would like to see an excel too.
I'm going to use UCa kingdoms rules now in my homebrew campaign and in the next kingmaker campaign we will play after this one ends (soon, i hope)I think they just renamed "Brothel" into "Dance Hall" and still left over a few mentions here and there.
Yes, brothel was renamed Dance Hall, as J. Jacobs answered here.
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
|
I should point out that, if you really want actual sleazy places in your kingdom, the new Ultimate Rulership expansion to the kingdom-building rules from UCa does contain both the Bordello and the Gambling Den as new buildings.
Pfft, Dance Halls. As if. You wanna be where the REAL action is. :)
|
If you're looking to implement the new kingdom-building rules with your KM campaign, you really should look into the new Ultimate Rulership product from Legendary Games, which has a metric ton of ideas I wasn't able to fit into UCam. Should be available for purchase tomorrow, barring any last-minute layout issues.
You are Evil!
How much?:D
Its my understanding that herolab is working on a kingdom calculator
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
|
If you're looking to implement the new kingdom-building rules with your KM campaign, you really should look into the new Ultimate Rulership product from Legendary Games, which has a metric ton of ideas I wasn't able to fit into UCam. Should be available for purchase tomorrow, barring any last-minute layout issues.You are Evil!
How much?:D
Available right here for the low, low price of 9.99 for 40 pages of full-color, beautiful, creative, no-holds-barred kingdom-building awesomeness!
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
|
Pfft, Dance Halls. As if. You wanna be where the REAL action is. :)Rofl...
Jason - thanks for this. Any chance that Legendary will create (& sell?) a
kingdom building calculator...?I ask - as I'd like to buy your product to use (have already purchased
Ultimate Campaign), but I've found out as we go along that I'm absolutely
cr*p at keeping things straight without a calculator to do it for me...
EVERY single time I do the math, add things, deduct things...the session
finishes & I go to plug in the new numbers/buildings/positions etc in to
the spreadsheet...& I've got numbers wrong...often in more than one place.If you guys are producing this Ultimate guide - I'd buy it, if it was
supported in that way...& I'd pay money for the calculator too...I ask - as it's possible (Oh god, I hope!) that we might get an updated
sheet from someone here on the site for the UC book, but even then that
book will only be used in my game IF someone's kind enough to do something
that I can't - program Excel...
My Excel skills are pretty basic as well. I could ask the guy in my gaming group who created the Excel spreadsheet for kingdom building in the campaign I ran if he would like to make one, but I may also see if the HeroLab folks want to work with us to incorporate this product into an add-on to their spreadsheet. We shall see!
|
|
If you're looking to implement the new kingdom-building rules with your KM campaign, you really should look into the new Ultimate Rulership product from Legendary Games, which has a metric ton of ideas I wasn't able to fit into UCam. Should be available for purchase tomorrow, barring any last-minute layout issues.You are Evil!
How much?:D
Available right here for the low, low price of 9.99 for 40 pages of full-color, beautiful, creative, no-holds-barred kingdom-building awesomeness!
** spoiler omitted **
The way to pay for it was a bit of a surprise, but the price is hardly a problem (thankfully).
"How much?" was one of the key phrase of one of my players in the first edition AD&D. It was his standard reply every time some NPC started explaining the difficulties of doing something or why the gods could be reluctant about rising one of his friends or followers from death.
It was his way of cutting the red tape and going to the heart of the matter.
:-)
Thanks to the rolls of the reaction dices it worked often enough. In our gaming group we still recall his CG cavalier meeting a family of 4 blue dragon (2 adult spellcasters) as a random encounter and his hiring them for the war he was fighting.
A natural 100 as a initial reaction from his "Hello!" and a 98 as a reaction to his offer.
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
|
It should be buyable/downloadable in the usual fashion now. The original file was too big (over 10 MB) to upload to Wordpress, but Tim was able to shrink it down on final so that we could upload it for sale.
Regardless, it's already sent to YOU!
|
I am just getting started to run book two and i am reading and comparing the rules from the Ap and the UCG.I am hoping the UCG fixes issues with players being cheezy and trying to make super sums of money and buy huge amounts of magic gear, If not I will just ban the magic item creation building for my game.
Regarding the original topic; Jason, would you provide your expertise to roughly estimate Mivon's distance from the Kingmaker map?
Comparing the River Kingdoms maps to the Kingmaker ones it appears that the southern KM hexes should be fully inside Mivon territory. The adventure evidently assumes otherwise (we would have a big war if the PCs kingdom started claiming Mivonese lands).
Using the Inner Sea World Guide map, I overlayed a hex grid with similar measures to the kingdom-building system (using the map scale). So Mivon would have around Size 80, with an Economy bonus of +82/+92. If I have some time left I'll try to do the same with a couple River Kingdoms, and try to estimate what kind of bonuses treaties with them would provide.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
On an unrelated topic - what would happen if a kingdom established a second vassal kingdom? Would it have another "Viceroy" role? Since the rules first came out I've been equating the kingdom of Brevoy (rules-wise, not fluff) to a massive central kingdom with numerous vassal duchies. Each big noble house would basically be a separate kingdom, paying vassalage and taxes to the Dragonscale Throne.
Regarding the original topic; Jason, would you provide your expertise to roughly estimate Mivon's distance from the Kingmaker map?
Comparing the River Kingdoms maps to the Kingmaker ones it appears that the southern KM hexes should be fully inside Mivon territory. The adventure evidently assumes otherwise (we would have a big war if the PCs kingdom started claiming Mivonese lands).
Using the Inner Sea World Guide map, I overlayed a hex grid with similar measures to the kingdom-building system (using the map scale). So Mivon would have around Size 80, with an Economy bonus of +82/+92. If I have some time left I'll try to do the same with a couple River Kingdoms, and try to estimate what kind of bonuses treaties with them would provide.
Based on an excellent photoshopped map put together by another poster (which I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to link to), Mivon should have only the eastern side of the lowermost row of hexes on the Hooktongue Slough map. Everywhere else, there's at least one row of unclaimed hexes below the Kingmaker map.
I said there was the equivalent of (2.5) 3 hexes between the border of the PC map, and that of Mivon. This is no-man's land, and prevents "accidental" incursions. :)
Are there any rules for how long it takes to muster more troops? It only says that you can create and rebuild new units during the Edict Phase.
Once I make the descision to create three units of 100 4th level rangers, how long does it take until I can send them to battle? And also, where would the unit "appear" when it is ready?
I can hardly instantly replenish my army while on campaign in the middle of a desert. Is that coverd, or entirely left to the GM?
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
|
Are there any rules for how long it takes to muster more troops? It only says that you can create and rebuild new units during the Edict Phase.
Once I make the descision to create three units of 100 4th level rangers, how long does it take until I can send them to battle? And also, where would the unit "appear" when it is ready?
I can hardly instantly replenish my army while on campaign in the middle of a desert. Is that coverd, or entirely left to the GM?
You can only create or reform armies during your kingdom turn, during the Edict phase, so only once a month.
Once a war begins, you shift into a scale that moves by days, not months. An army's movement score is how many hexes it can move per day, and each battle is assumed to take more or less one day (though it's left intentionally ambiguous, so battles move at the speed of plot). So, unless you only fight one battle a month, you won't be able to replenish your armies in the middle of a campaign.
Also, since if memory serves armies have to be formed in a city with a Barracks or a Garrison, you can't form them in the middle of the desert. Your main army will be out there; your new army will form up in whatever city has a Barracks or Garrison.
There are more detailed rules for recruitment described Ultimate War, coming around the end of the month, but Ultimate Rulership also includes rules on recruiting special soldiers of various types with Recruitment edicts, as well as limiting recruitment based on population and militarism.
|
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
|
I said there was the equivalent of (2.5) 3 hexes between the border of the PC map, and that of Mivon. This is no-man's land, and prevents "accidental" incursions. :)
That's about where I put Mivon at the start of my Kingmaker campaign, with them expanding north to about the bottom edge of the map as the PCs explored south. It's a fuzzy border at best, but anywhere around that bottom row of hexes works fine.
So it is assumed you started recruiting and training at some point in the past and they become ready for battle when you go through the Edict Phase?
That certainly makes mercenaries a really interesting option. You could get them instantly, accounting for how long they take to march to your battlefield, and they also come with several tactics they learned from past experience.
And they also don't require paying consumption during times when you don't need them on standby.
So the big question is: How much do they cost? They should be pretty damn expensive. At least three times the normal monthly consumption for a unit of their type, I would say.
Las question: How about integrating already existing troops into your armies? Like volunteers who come to join your cause? Should they come with a discount, since they are already trained and equiped, or would it be just a lot simpler to simply have them cost full consumption from the first month they join you?
My players asked some volunteers from among the settlers and ex-bandits to go down to the Stag Lord's fort for some militia training from Kesten Garess. This made him feel useful (since he's not on the council) and let them keep an eye on the borders of their kingdom (since they haven't actually claimed that hex yet).
As each group of militia is trained, I am giving one of their towns a defence bonus of +1 for having trained men available. They will have no other effect until they are mobilised.
|
|
It should be buyable/downloadable in the usual fashion now. The original file was too big (over 10 MB) to upload to Wordpress, but Tim was able to shrink it down on final so that we could upload it for sale.
Regardless, it's already sent to YOU!
And "How much?" worked again.
;-)I have only skimmed it, but I see that it seem to resolve some problem we had with the regular rules, like the taxation rate doing very little.
In our Kingmaker campaign we already used a variable divisor, dependent on the tax edict, for the tax income of the kingdom instead of a simple +x to economy.
This week end I will take some time to read all of it.
In our Kingmaker campaign we already used a variable divisor, dependent on the tax edict, for the tax income of the kingdom instead of a simple +x to economy.
Care to elaborate on it? Seems interesting :)