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Worf-nerd term-origin, Star Trek: The Next Generation- Having a previously established, powerful character be horribly defeated by a new one to show how powerful a new one is.
The campaign name is "Defenders of the Realms". Here is the set up, all the player characters are Asgardians or other higher beings. I've told the players that they will far more powerful than normal 5th level characters but they don't seem to understand just HOW much.
SOOO...My plan is to have the fight 3 adult white dragons right out of the gate. The kicker, the players are going to walk through it with minimal difficulty. I'm custom making all the monsters they are going to fight so they will all be different and unexpected, unlike the standard Midgard Dragons. Also, normal humans will be considered small compared to them.
The execution. Me-"You enter the chamber, it filled to the brim with shining jewels and coin. On the far side of the room are three large white dragons that have corned 5 small warriors, 2 of which are grievously injured.
Player: "Well, what are they? The warriors?"
Me:"Do you have knowledge: the planes?"
Different Player: "Oh, I do" *rolls* "Oh, not so good. Only a 13"
Me: "Don't worry it was an easy check. They are the dominant race on This world. They are Humans"
*Players go nuts*
What are your thoughts?
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It's a bad idea to "Worf" the dragons if dragons are supposed to be the scary BBEGs that most fantasy makes them out to be. But if you're not doing that, then it's a dandy idea. Since you're making custom monsters to provide challenge, you won't need BBEG dragons, so it should be dandy. If your customer monsters include powerful dragons, make sure to give the players a distinction so they know why the first dragons were butter before their hot knives but the new dragons are kicking their butts.
Have you already taken into account the game rules for them being outsiders on this plane?
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I think this could be a genuinely good idea. It'd be a great way to demonstrate how different your campaign is and provide your players with a paradigm shift.
It's a bad idea to "Worf" the dragons if dragons are supposed to be the scary BBEGs that most fantasy makes them out to be. But if you're not doing that, then it's a dandy idea. Since you're making custom monsters to provide challenge, you won't need BBEG dragons, so it should be dandy. If your customer monsters include powerful dragons, make sure to give the players a distinction so they know why the first dragons were butter before their hot knives but the new dragons are kicking their butts.
Have you already taken into account the game rules for them being outsiders on this plane?
Yes I have, 3 of the races are. But one has an ability that makes it a native outsider on every plane it travels to.
So they can be dismissed, yes. However, I am ruling that spells that only target humanoids will work on them if cast by another outsider and viseversa.
The main enemies of the early game are going to be frost giants. The BBEG is the fire demon, Surtur.
I think this is a pretty good idea. Good luck!
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I am interested in this, I might try something like this on some of my own players, could you either post here or PM me some of the details of the buffs you are giving the PCs please.
But to answer your original question, worf-ing the dragons always puts a bad taste in my mouth, dragons are described as some of the only races who's power tier rivals the gods themselves, in 2e they were the big bad evil guy almost every time it wasn't a demon a wizard in his tower or something regional (like drow or illithids) but from what I've seen worfing them seems almost cliché
I do want to point out that the Asgardians had their own dragons that were significantly stronger than the ice giants (Norse mythology is fun) the closest thing paizo has to them is/are the linnorms (they are all very very big, have very powerful breath attacks and if you hurt/kill them you are subject to various curses) if you are sticking true to the mithology, most linnorms should also be casters of at least 4th level,
I am interested in this, I might try something like this on some of my own players, could you either post here or PM me some of the details of the buffs you are giving the PCs please.
But to answer your original question, worf-ing the dragons always puts a bad taste in my mouth, dragons are described as some of the only races who's power tier rivals the gods themselves, in 2e they were the big bad evil guy almost every time it wasn't a demon a wizard in his tower or something regional (like drow or illithids) but from what I've seen worfing them seems almost cliché
I do want to point out that the Asgardians had their own dragons that were significantly stronger than the ice giants (Norse mythology is fun) the closest thing paizo has to them is/are the linnorms (they are all very very big, have very powerful breath attacks and if you hurt/kill them you are subject to various curses) if you are sticking true to the mithology, most linnorms should also be casters of at least 4th level,
The only ones i can think of are THE dragon from Beowulf, the Niohoggr in the roots of Yggdrasil and the one slain by Siegfried.
Because I am unoriginal I may or may not have them fight the Jabberwok re skinned as Fin Fang Foom.(Even though this is more mythological Asgard than marvel Asgard, I can never resist using cool bestiary monsters every now and again. Hmm...getting a lot of new ideas.)
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I didn't say that there were a lot of dragons in the Norse mithos, just that they were powerful.
Just throwing it out there,
I had a great uncle who was really into this stuff, got a degree in it and everything, he told me stories, unfortunaly (or possibly fortunately) my dad is really into comics (and well so am I), and I sometimes get confused.
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Other powerful beasts you could have them fight are the spawn of rovagug, super powerful.
I should totally have a high-ranked Devil suffer the Worf Effect, introducing a Nightwalker as the true BBEG for a campaign.
Better than to give the message "you have no trace of any chance to win that", it's a lot better to say "this will be really, really tough".
Instead of having dragons be instant killed, make the dragons put up a good show, but still almost always losing. Or make it that two dragons together can defeat the new threat, but they are both killed while doing it.