I'm looking for an AP to run with my friends in the near future and Skull & Shackles has really caught my eye. Before I commit to it, I am curious to hear from those who've either run it or are in the process of running it about their experiences.
Are there any parts of the campaign that come off as weak or in need of work? Are there any changes you'd recommend to any characters or story elements? Is the naval combat system good? Also, how does Skull & Shackles stand up against the other APs?
hmmm.
first part of the AP is pretty deadly (check the obituaries) but fun.
second part is good, one might have some quibbles, and rather sandboxy
third part : railroadish, but has some good scenes. The regatta, if properly prepared can be terrific
fourth part : one...ahem huge island dungeon crawl plus a (IMHO railroadish) pirate party. The whole setup smacks more of a feudal kingdom (are you fit to rule this, our domain ?) , than of a confederation of pirates. YMMV
fifth part : another set of smaller dungeon crawls, not much piracy anymore. Most astoundingly the one dominant BBEG gets slain here....
sixth part : huge but abstract sea battle plus dungeon crawl to become the pirate king. Huge parts of it can be bypassed by a very simple deduction
IMHO : a good AP, but there could have been so much more piracy ( I don't see freebooters skulking around castles) - sneaking over overgrown islands, ghost ships etc.... mostly missing. Many of the fantastic NPCs introduced early on in the path simply dwindle away. There is also a tendency by the authors "to build" the most notorious pirate captain
A lot of non-combat skills are heavily used (Professions, bluff diplomacy etc stick out ), and in parts the the AP can be pretty "Jack-Sparrow-ish"
There will be strong difficulties to replace dead charatcters during part #1
Gunslinging is supported, but in a minor way, and apparantly not necessary for the players.
Overall, good start, less fun later on in the path unless you like the "we sneak through this ancient castle of our BBEG" approach
I'd give a 2- (B-).
"Isles of the Shackles" will be an almost quintessential purchase.
Excellent support material : check out some of the books for Freeport by Green Ronin and the donwloadable "Razor Coast" by Nicolas Logue
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I've been running S&S for the last year and we'll be finishing in this Tuesday. From what I've seen...
To get the bad stuff out of the way, I would like to first say the naval combat system isn't very exciting or engaging, or realistic. For the most part it's your ship's captain making skill checks against the enemy's captain, and the rest of the group can...make assists, or fire seige engines that for the most part are useless--if you do enough damage to have any effect, it means the enemy ship is worth significantly less, or you sink it and miss out on a literal boatload of treasure. I would suggest using the homebrew ship combat here http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p54b?Naval-Combat-For-a-Whole-Party#1 or get the Fire as she Bears book, which I hear has a great ship combat system, and a better system for ships in general.
Parts of the adventure path, particularly in the beginning, can be quite deadly. This creates a problem in the first module, as for your first level and a half you're on a ship with a clearly defined number of people all with names and (for the most part) stats already given, so it's nearly impossible to explain introducing a new character. After that however, a little flexibility can make introducing a new character fluid and easy--but you'll need to give them a backstory for why they hate the rest of the party's previous captain (though his tendency to have mutinous crews doesn't make that too difficult--we know of at least two successful mutinies against him).
There are also a few parts that feel railroaded, especially the first module which seems to drag on forever in an effort to drive into your players a hatred for their evil captain. Unfortunately what it really does (as written) is to develop a hatred of the first mate, which is important, but the captain himself is mostly absent for the module--literally three lines of dialogue and he hands it over to the first mate. I would highly suggest including him some more with some cruel behaviors (look in installment 5 for inspiration, he is a sick, evil bastard). There are a few other parts (part 4 particularly) that feel somewhat railroaded if the GM doesn't take some steps to make it feel more natural.
It is not all like this however--part 2 (except the very beginning that gets you on your ship) is a wonderful sandbox is run correctly, filled with opportunities for some gool ol' piracy. Use the "random encounters" here to create some higher level opportunities at higher level and you can eliminate some of the railroad feeling later on. I personally upgraded the pirate hunter and ghost ship battles and put them in modules 4 and 5 respectively.
This AP also has many wonderful RP opportunities and great benefits for making skilled and/or clever characters as opposed to standard "bash door, kill monster, take treasure" types. It's filled with colorful NPCs that feel real and relatable, enough so that one of my players' characters started a relationship with one and they're planning to get married at the end of the AP. Another character is already married somewhat against her will, but that's another story altogether (though also shows the advantages of not straight-up murder style).
All in all my players loved this AP without too much need for modification on my part, but you do have to make sure to read ahead--I would suggest skimming through the entire adventure path before running the first module. It'll let you set up alot of hooks for later that your players will love, or love to hate.
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Yep I agree pretty much with the last 2 posters. I'll just add to read this forum. There are some really good tips to make the AP really good. It's not too difficult to do either. There is a wonderful post on making a Sandbox out of the AP and getting the most out of it I think its exporing the shackles if i recall. Definatley do as Dazz said and read it all through first as some of the plot hooks and NPC motivations don't show up until later volumes. The first part is ruthless so be careful and the 21 days on the wormwood can become a bit tedious if not careful (I cut them down to 12 in the end). Book 2 suffers from the same type of end dungeon as 1, I just used a mini island treasure hunt instead. Book 3 is kind of all over the place and back and forth, Im not there yet so im still figuring out whether I want to change it or not. Book 4 as the other 2 said but im not bothered as its a change of pace and my players won't mind dry feet for a bit. Part 5 is OK but as the others say the BBEG dies here. Easy fix just bring him back at the end of 6, speaking of which 6 is good but I would suggest switching it round. Have the cave first then finish with the fleet battle.
Also I would suggest using Fire as She Bears for the ship combat, Dead Man's Chest has some great ideas (ship travel, wind, weather tables for every season, better navigation rules, random shipboard event tables and a great island treasure hunt mini adventure to boot).
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I'm looking for an AP to run with my friends in the near future and Skull & Shackles has really caught my eye. Before I commit to it, I am curious to hear from those who've either run it or are in the process of running it about their experiences.
Are there any parts of the campaign that come off as weak or in need of work? Are there any changes you'd recommend to any characters or story elements? Is the naval combat system good? Also, how does Skull & Shackles stand up against the other APs?
Its without a doubt the best AP I/we've ever played, and one of the best campaigns we've ever played period, regardless of game system.
Its kind of sandboxy in parts and kind of railroady in parts but never so much so to either extreme that it detracts from the fun.
I can make a few suggestions that might enhance your play a bit, and if you decide to run the AP, feel free to drop me a line to discuss more.
Suggestions:
Make full use of your NPC's. Sandara was a constant companion to the PC's, romantically involved with one of them. Rosie Cuswell stayed aboard ship as a member of the crew and 'watched the boat' when PC's went ashore. Also rememeber that they will have an entire crew at their disposal most times, and if the crew is treated/paid well, there's no reason they wouldn't have the resources of an armed force at their fingertips.
Keep in mind that throughout the AP the characters will want/need to engage in piracy - two things about that: The first is that it usually works out to a single encounter day, allowing the PC's to use all their resources at once, greatly amplifying their effectiveness. Second, try to keep these encounters from becoming hum-drum affairs. We had some instances where we just assumed success over a few weeks time and the loot to go with it (usually between sessions) for expendiency's sake, but try to have some memorable battles, some surprises and some potentially interesting NPC's for them to encounter as they capture ships on the high seas.
Finally, if you're interested in pursuing the campaign as an option for good aligned characters, I've done some work on a fairly simple re-write to make that possible, previewed here.
Thank you all so much for the advice. Thanks for the warnings about the first 21 days and the ship combat. I've purchased the Fire as She Bears book and plan on incorporating that system. I'm currently reading through the modules and seeing ways to tie them together better and maybe change the ending a bit so it is more than just a dungeon crawl.
YMMV, but I found the first 21 days as a great opportunity for role playing and the players to really get to know the NPC's and one another before having to attack The Man's Promise. The players really enjoyed it and it has become one of my most popular campaigns very quickly as a result!
I guess it depends on what you put your focus on. Sure the skill checks had to be done and the obligatory whippings for those that failed, but I put more of an emphasis on the time after shift when they could role play with the npcs. I did not make it easy to shift NPC attitudes. They had to spend time getting to know them first and could only make one shift per NPC per day. Yet still they got most of the crew at least friendly in the end. Even the dwarf with a 7 INT and 6 CHR was having a good time!
The beginning really depends on the GM. It's a pretty fine line between making the PCs hate their oppressors and making them hate the game.
I think the book actually makes a mistake in how it assumes to lead PCs to hate their overlords. Punishing the PCs too much annoys the players and when you aren't succeeding at level 1, it can be very frustrating. Instead, punish NPCs the players care about. In fact, it makes more sense that Scourge and Plugg would take note of the PCs allies and punish them for aligning with the 'wrong crew.'
Sandra befriends the PCs right away and sneaks them some of their items? Well, guess who should get a lashing that night for doing so.
This is good advice. The first two parts of The Wormwood Mutiny are pretty much a straightforward railroad and can be frustrating and even boring for the PCs, particularly if your players' playstyle leans more towards action than intensive roleplay. The key here is to be aware of your group's strong and weak points (both as characters and players) and adjust accordingly. Hillary's idea of influencing the PCs by punishing their friends among the crew is excellent, but even so 21 days of beatings before the real action gets underway can strain the interest of anyone who's not a diehard roleplayer. Many GMs (myself included) have telescoped the initial actions on the Wormwood by eliminating some or all of the "off" days in between incidents, and this can help move things along if your PCs' interest is fading.
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I was a player in a Skull & Shackles campaign and I was greatly disappointed. The campaign, as written, seems to be unplayable and we had to drop it after the third near Total Party Kill.
I have no idea how anyone could enjoy the first 21 days.
And it didn't get better from there. Not one character shined.
In the end, I just wish we had the time & money invested into the game refunded, though I'd trade it all for the opportunity to meet the author of the first book in a dark alley. I won't even give him the courtesy of mentioning his name, but suffice to say I'll not be buying any of his products again without significant due diligence. There's a special place in hell for that guy.
I disagree respectfully. My players are diehard rollplayers and are used to old school down in the dungeon kill the monster, get the treasure Rappan Athuk style. They actually found it refreshing to have an opportunity to actually role play for a change. When the rogue on day 18 refused to give up her weapons and go down to the bilges unarmed they were all ready to mutiny on her behalf because they had become endeared to one another. Use that time to build not only party unity, but a relationship with the NPCs. I don't completely disagree about possibly punishing those they care about, it just did not become necessary for us. Rosie became like a sister to them by day 21.
Thank you all so much for the advice. Thanks for the warnings about the first 21 days and the ship combat. I've purchased the Fire as She Bears book and plan on incorporating that system. I'm currently reading through the modules and seeing ways to tie them together better and maybe change the ending a bit so it is more than just a dungeon crawl.
One of the things we did that worked out well was that every character got 1 additional skill point per level that had to be spent on Swimming, Profession: Sailor or Craft: Shipbuilding.
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I agree with brvheart, it a REALLY great AP if it's handled correctly. It does need a GM who is pretty experienced as you need to know when to either rack up the pain or slow it down a bit. My players found book 1 to be REALLY punishing but enjoyable at the same time. One thing to try to do is not to have the days on the Wormwood turn into a series of dice rolls. Use the rolls the players make and adapt them, let them Role-play as much as possible, use the crew and NPC's, give them character and flavour, by the end the players should have latched on to some of the crew and they will be like henchmen to them or even full blown PC's to a certain extent. Make Plugg and Scourge menacing and his lackies like school bullies but also give the players some breathing space too, mix some laughs into it if you can. The aim is for the players to gain hatred for Plugg et al and a certain amount of awe, fear and respect for Harrigan when the players see him which can then make things a little easier later on. The best and only way you can tell if the days need condensing is to look at the players. If they are enjoying it let them carry on, if they look bored move it forward. My group were not bored and were enjoying it but it was more a case of them wanting to mutiny as they hated Plugg so much, I knew it would be suicide so I condensed the days had the storm happen on day 10 and the Man's Promise fight happen straight after. Then as soon as the PC's left with Plugg on the Man's Promise I just left them to their own devices. The mutiny happened on night 2 in my eyes at the right time. Be very careful on the island and Grindy caves too, they can be a TPK if you have a bunch of trigger happy run and kill without thinking types. I had one death but we use hero points so he came back (at a price though).
Book 2 is fantastic if you sandbox it after Ricketys. My group were just going up and down the coast raiding ships, villages and spending plunder in ports for nigh on 20 3 hour sessions. they have only just finished Tidewater after roughly 35 sessions of play overall.
My advice is to let the players have the riegns on this one. Stick with the plot and sets when needed but for the most part react to what they do and only railroad them if you need too to further the plot.
Be mean yes but also be careful that you don't overdo it. Remember the aim of any game is to have fun, if you are too relentless it will kill the game.
One of the things we did that worked out well was that every character got 1 additional skill point per level that had to be spent on Swimming, Profession: Sailor or Craft: Shipbuilding.
Another good idea. I did something similar with Traits: my players started with threeTraits rather than the usual two, but one of the three had to be chosen from the Campaign Traits in the S&S Players' Guide.
I may "borrow" your extra Skill Point idea as well.... ;D
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We just finished up Skull & Shackles last night! I was waiting till then to respond to this thread. Having played it, I can say it left me with two impressions I never had from any other AP I’ve run, and I’ve ran six.
First, when we wrapped up last night it somehow didn’t feel like the end. The last book was over but there were so many things the group never got around to doing. Having the treasure side quests in the covers to hand out and with access to the support articles and the Isles of the Shackles book, there’s enough material to sustain a game for years. But on the medium advancement track it’s hard to sustain it all over the course of the campaign.
Second, this sucker has replay potential like none other. I could literally run this for two or three different groups start to finish and because of the sheer number of options, character interests and decisions it would feel like a completely new game each time I’m sure.
Of course with that last notation comes agreement with what someone posted above: this campaign doesn’t do it all for you. A GM is going to have to do prep and keep ahead of locations and story to run an entertaining game.
Now to your questions!
>>Are there any parts of the campaign that come off as weak or in need of work?
Not necessarily weak but not to my or my player’s liking. Books 3 and 5 have a scavenger hunt-like feel to them that I tightened up a LOT. I kept the basic storyline intact but streamlined a number of the situations and used these books more as toolkits than running them straight as-is. Otherwise the books were great. I find the criticism of including some ‘dungeons’ to go through as a bad thing is just strange. They’re towers and seaside forts and ancient ruins that fit right in with the story – there’s tons of seafaring action, so a chance to map some rooms is great!
>>Are there any changes you'd recommend to any characters or story elements?
As mentioned, read the books ahead of time and make notes as you go. Your group may like the running around gathering feel of books 3 and 5 and will need less work.
My only other hint may not apply to all, but you know on the really cool “hand-drawn” map of the Shackles in the Map Folio? There’s a giant whale with a fort on its back depicted. My group looked at that and all asked “what is that?!” I told them it was an old legend the maker of the map must have included. They weren’t buying it and I knew I had to find a way to integrate it into the game before the end. I pulled it off by using elements in the Kobold Press book “To The Edge of the World” and merging it with the island/tower adventure of book 5. Nuff said.
Also, check out this thread to look into getting a copy of the ‘director’s cut’ of book 6. It brings to light a lot of detail and situational elements they cut for size but it helps a great deal in prepping to run it.
>>Is the naval combat system good?
As written the ship-to-ship rules were not liked, because it didn’t engage the entire table. There’s a post here with advice we used that turned that all around however, and then the system worked just fine. Also, the fleet battles rules worked very well with only two house rule tweaks. We allowed different sized ships into the same squadron and had more criteria for when to make a morale check (in playtesting we had squadrons that got pulverized stick around and others that were untouched that fled because of poor dice rolls which seemed very weird).
>>Also, how does Skull & Shackles stand up against the other APs?
This comes from a biased standpoint because my favorite AP’s are the sandbox ones. With that in mind the only one that could tie or beat Skull & Shackles is Kingmaker. It’s such an open sandbox experience on an even larger scale than Kingmaker it is literally difficult for me to pick a favorite between the two. It’s hard to even compare to the AP’s with a more determined storyline and how the players get from point to point.
With that aside it’s a great AP in my group’s opinion that stands with the big hitters like Rise of the Runelords and Curse of the Crimson Throne.
LOL, FOC! Well, you could always put them in a binder.