Good wizard necromancer spells for cleric / agent of the grave

[proftobe]

Another player in RotRL is playing a cleric of urgithao/agent of the grave. He just hit 5th level in the class and can pick any 3 necromancy spells off any other list. He generally runs him as a bad touch cleric who just got undead giant body guards. So what 3 spells should he take? Ive narrowed it down to
Spectral hand
vampiric touch
Enservation
Circle of death
any other ideas? He wants to stay away from spells over 6th level because with 6 players there's a Chance he wont hit 14 until close to the end.

[Zog of Deadwood]

Fear is one of the best spells for clearing moogs in the game.

Enervation is a very solid choice.

Vampiric Touch is okay, but IMO is better with the feat Reach Spell, either naturally or via a rod, than with Spectral Hand because it doesn't require an extra spell in combat to get it off.

[Heymitch]

Zog of Deadwood wrote:

Vampiric Touch is okay, but IMO is better with the feat Reach Spell, either naturally or via a rod, than with Spectral Hand because it doesn't require an extra spell in combat to get it off.

I disagree. Spectral Hand lasts minutes per level, and gives you medium range with any touch spell up to 4th level, without raising the spell level, or relying on a 3 times/day Rod. So, it's great with Vampiric Touch, but it's also useful with cure spells and condition removal spells of all sorts.

Is your fighter tied up by a gargantuan grapple monkey? Zap him with a Freedom of Movement spell from at least 170 feet away.

Is the barbarian being dominated by the big bad? Touch him with Protection From Evil from across the battlemap, so you don't have to step into reach of that greataxe of his.

Cast Spectral Hand once, and you've opened up your tactics for the entire combat, especially if you've prepared spells for just this contingency.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Command Undead
Enervation
Ray of Exhaustion
Fear

I'd pick among those. Vampiric Touch scales up slowly. If you don't expect to level very high, you might not want to bother.

[Saraiso]

If you are going a "bad touch" type cleric, Spectral Hand is simply fantastic. Sure, it takes your first round of combat, unless you know theres a fight and can pre-cast it, but suddenly ALL of your 4th level and lower touch spells can be used at range.

This means not only your inflicts and vampiric touches, but your cure spells, your restoration spells, your remove X condition spells, bestow curse... everything that would otherwise require you to waste precious actions moving into threatened range with the angry monsters. I think over time you will find spectral hand gets used for a lot more than 3 touch spells per day, making it a significantly superior choice to a rod of reach.

Other spells I'd recommend:
Fear
Ray of Exhaustion
Suffocation
Enervation
Command Undead

[Zog of Deadwood]

Saraiso wrote:

If you are going a "bad touch" type cleric, Spectral Hand is simply fantastic. Sure, it takes your first round of combat, unless you know theres a fight and can pre-cast it, but suddenly ALL of your 4th level and lower touch spells can be used at range.

This means not only your inflicts and vampiric touches, but your cure spells, your restoration spells, your remove X condition spells, bestow curse... everything that would otherwise require you to waste precious actions moving into threatened range with the angry monsters. I think over time you will find spectral hand gets used for a lot more than 3 touch spells per day, making it a significantly superior choice to a rod of reach.

Sure, the Spectral Hand spell is objectively better for attacks than the Reach Spell feat if you are starting the combat after one or more rounds of spellcasting so it is already cast. But it has some disadvantages even then 1) it costs you hit points to cast (which you don't get back until the spell ends and you can lose if it is destroyed, 2) it has a visible effect (a glowing hand) while Reach Spell does not, and 3) it will most likely have to be cast for every major combat, so it will either take up most of your 2nd level spells or you'll be using a wand (in which case you might be better off with a wand and UMD).

If, on the other hand, you are NOT starting a fight with it already cast, the round you take to do so is a heavy, heavy tax. Most combats last very few rounds. Having to take the beginning of every unforeseen major fight to cast a preparatory spell is very suboptimal.

[Saraiso]

Zog of Deadwood said: wrote:

If, on the other hand, you are NOT starting a fight with it already cast, the round you take to do so is a heavy, heavy tax. Most combats last very few rounds. Having to take the beginning of every unforeseen major fight to cast a preparatory spell is very suboptimal.

Yes, from a purely theoretical standpoint in one fight, that extra round to cast spectral hand is a steep cost. From what I have seen in play however, it is less of an issue than theory makes it out to be.

Perhaps its a GM thing, but frequently we get into fights in large temples and other areas, or the place is crowded with minions, and the cleric needs to spend a full round simply moving to get from the fighter back to the ranger who got hit by dragon breath and is in the negative, or any number of other situations.

If there is ever a situation where you would need to move farther than a single move, then casting spectral hand doesn't cost any actions at all.

However, you still would be well served getting a rod of reach, for those emergencies or ambushes.

My only complaint about the rod is that in the games I play in, the cleric casts a Whole lot more touch spells than 3/day, and those rods get pricy quickly if you are buying too many of them. 2-3 preparations of Spectral Hand however is usually all you'll need; as with its minutes/level duration one casting serves for a full fight, or maybe two or three depending on how fast your group moves :P

You are correct though, it does cost 1d4 hp, and have the glowing telltale hand, which, if your enemy is savvy and magically inclined can let them know to dispel it.

Personally, if a baddie wants to spend their action dispelling my spectral hand instead of killing our team, I say more power to them :P

Edit: One other advantage the spectral hand is, is that it is still a Melee touch attack. Not only does this use your str instead of dex on the attack roll (which could be good or bad depending on your stats) but it lets you hold the charge if you miss your attack roll.

Since Reach Spell changes the spells range from touch to close, it becomes a ranged touch and follows the rule for those, which means if you miss the spell is wasted, and you cannot hold the charge to try again next turn.

Just something else to think about to save those spell slots, if your dice hate you like mine sometimes do :)