
Selene Spires |

So this Sunday my family got together. My brother was up due to my Mom's condition (which we will know more this Wed), my sisters came over, and their daughters(they had one each) were all over.
And it seems to be inevitable but another trans talk started this time by my father (though only my brother was there) and my brother joined in. My mom defended trans people, not in educated way but at least she tried. But this just made things worse as it took a 5 min discussion which I could ignore into a 10 min debate(arguement).

Selene Spires |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Added to the above. My Mom was telling me to come out to my brother...he would understand. He may just have those views because he doesn't know anyone who is trans. It is a nice sentiment and I wish would be true, but I am too vulnerable to take the risk.
And every time I have come out to people it just seems more people hurt me than support me. And even most of the support has been minimal.
:(

Selene Spires |

The annoying thing about my family is we are not as a whole racist, eexist, etc. I raised to judge the invidual...and any racism was wrong. I have clear memories of my Dad snapping at his mother(my grandmother) as she talked about those $%& attacking Pearl Harbor.
It is just the trans stuff. They just stuck on the whole notion of biological gender 'Truth'. Trans people are full of self hate.
Not caring about what modern studies say.
Sigh
And than certain friends..
I think I run into issues because they think I am being wrong on how to play LGBT+ characters. I also tend to play sex positive characters. Unfortunately due to attacks that say LGBTQ+ folks are just all about the sex...this has become what is deemed as a 'Bad Sterotype' to certain liberals.
So...now people who hate me are controlling how my 'allies' view me because probably because of their own sex hang ups.
Sighs
And people who run the site...are treating me like I am crazy.
'Those people are liberal.'
'Etc.'
When it should 'We will keep a eye on it.' Atleast. Dismissing my concerns is bs.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

And than certain friends..
I think I run into issues because they think I am being wrong on how to play LGBT+ characters. I also tend to play sex positive characters. Unfortunately due to attacks that say LGBTQ+ folks are just all about the sex...this has become what is deemed as a 'Bad Sterotype' to certain liberals.So...now people who hate me are controlling how my 'allies' view me because probably because of their own sex hang ups.
I notice that if they let you have a stable relationship, this "problem" might go away.
And people who run the site...are treating me like I am crazy.
'Those people are liberal.'
I need someone to explain to me how this is relevant?
Just because someone is "liberal" (and even if this true most of the time) doesn't mean that they can't unconsciously (or even intentionally) perform bad actions.

Ambrosia Slaad |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |

I think a big part of the problem is many anti-trans cultural narratives are specifically anti-trans women because they're built on cultural misogyny, both unconsciously unexamined and consciously overt. You're violating people's unfair and incorrect stereotypes of both gender and womanhood.
Our culture still looks down on women who are strong, independent, assertive, and unashamed of their healthy sexuality; those qualities are seen as unabashedly positive qualities in men, but discouraged and seen as shameful in women. Similarly, these rigid gender roles work against men who take the lead in running the home & rearing children when the wives are the primary breadwinner. And all too often, women who benefit from their lower but still privileged positions in society often work to harass, slander, and shame women who are perceived as rejecting or bending those roles,
Now, build upon that with someone who violates our culture's rigid, unfair, & unrealistic expectations of gender identities. There seems to be actual real fear in trans women rejecting male bodies to embrace women's physicality. Unrealistic portrayals of men's bodies are pervasive and lauded as the ultimate goal, so much so that men who don't meet that standard are perceived as weak, lazy, and lesser men. Trans women reject that bullsh!t, not just by eschewing "male" roles but by going so far as to chemically and surgically undo the unwanted metamorphosis brought on by male hormones and puberty. People are against both trans kids taking hormone blockers to halt puberty and trans adults taking HRT as adults. Trans men aren't accepted, but their transition is seen as still upholding the societal prerogative that manhood is valued far above womanhood, similar to how lesbians are less threatening because their attraction to women upholds the narrative that women are sexual objects. Trans women break the male privilege societal foundation, which is why they are so often falsely accused as deceivers and would-be molesters & rapists. Too many hetero guys are terrified that any attraction to trans women means they will be perceived as secretly gay, and fear of losing their hetero male privilege leads them to react with all forms of violence.
You're not crazy; you're pushing back against a mountain of bullsh!t from the majority of society. I don't think the majority of society hates trans women; I think the majority, including way too many "allies", are afraid of their support for trans people costing them their own all-too tenuous positions of privilege and acceptance.

Selene Spires |

Selene Spires wrote:And than certain friends..
I think I run into issues because they think I am being wrong on how to play LGBT+ characters. I also tend to play sex positive characters. Unfortunately due to attacks that say LGBTQ+ folks are just all about the sex...this has become what is deemed as a 'Bad Sterotype' to certain liberals.So...now people who hate me are controlling how my 'allies' view me because probably because of their own sex hang ups.
I notice that if they let you have a stable relationship, this "problem" might go away.
Selene Spires wrote:And people who run the site...are treating me like I am crazy.
'Those people are liberal.'I need someone to explain to me how this is relevant?
Just because someone is "liberal" (and even if this true most of the time) doesn't mean that they can't unconsciously (or even intentionally) perform bad actions.
1)Or Allow for multiple healthy relationships.
2) One problems with both parties is for some reason people think they have to be 100% with everything their party says. So when asked they will say they are pro-trans right...critize people who are not...assume the 'sound bites' are the whole truth...etc. And than something that should be a good thing happens...they meet a actual Trans person. It becomes bad when they don't fit the square box that the political parties use (so it is simple). It is the trans person who is wrong! Instead of self examination and actually learning from that person it is easier to blame the trans person as not being 'real'.
Oh they won't voice this to others in fear of getting their liberal creds revoked.
Ultimately I have gotten the best response from people who are more moderate in view, even if they lean more right than to the left. Well except for one person who is very left, but she had known other trans people before me.

Selene Spires |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |

I think a big part of the problem is many anti-trans cultural narratives are specifically anti-trans women because they're built on cultural misogyny, both unconsciously unexamined and consciously overt. You're violating people's unfair and incorrect stereotypes of both gender and womanhood.
Our culture still looks down on women who are strong, independent, assertive, and unashamed of their healthy sexuality; those qualities are seen as unabashedly positive qualities in men, but discouraged and seen as shameful in women. Similarly, these rigid gender roles work against men who take the lead in running the home & rearing children when the wives are the primary breadwinner. And all too often, women who benefit from their lower but still privileged positions in society often work to harass, slander, and shame women who are perceived as rejecting or bending those roles,
Now, build upon that with someone who violates our culture's rigid, unfair, & unrealistic expectations of gender identities. There seems to be actual real fear in trans women rejecting male bodies to embrace women's physicality. Unrealistic portrayals of men's bodies are pervasive and lauded as the ultimate goal, so much so that men who don't meet that standard are perceived as weak, lazy, and lesser men. Trans women reject that bullsh!t, not just by eschewing "male" roles but by going so far as to chemically and surgically undo the unwanted metamorphosis brought on by male hormones and puberty. People are against both trans kids taking hormone blockers to halt puberty and trans adults taking HRT as adults. Trans men aren't accepted, but their transition is seen as still upholding the societal prerogative that manhood is valued far above womanhood, similar to how lesbians are less threatening because their attraction to women upholds the narrative that women are sexual objects. Trans women break the male privilege societal foundation, which is why they are so often falsely accused as deceivers and would-be molesters & rapists. Too many...
100%.
I wish I knew you, Rysky, and a bunch of people here in RL.It is very frustrating I think I really don't know any actual LGBTQ+ people in RL.
1) I don't so I don't have people who have similar experiences.
2) It sadly just shows how lacking in empathy people have for people who are different.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

1)Or Allow for multiple healthy relationships.
Point of fact. If a male player/character started building a harem, how would the group react?
2) One problems with both parties is for some reason people think they have to be 100% with everything their party says.
I can't answer that without getting banned by the Mods here. ::the NO Politics rule. :(
So when asked they will say they are pro-trans right...criticize people who are not...assume the 'sound bites' are the whole truth...etc. And than something that should be a good thing happens...they meet a actual Trans person. It becomes bad when they don't fit the square box that the political parties use (so it is simple).
I'm not buying the "political parties" line. Bigotry can be surprisingly diverse.
It is the trans person who is wrong! Instead of self examination and actually learning from that person it is easier to blame the trans person as not being 'real'.
I know what you are saying; but this makes my head hurt.
I wish I knew you, Rysky, and a bunch of people here in RL.
It is very frustrating I think I really don't know any actual LGBTQ+ people in RL.
Not being LGBTQ, I wouldn't help with that. As we have encountered elsewhere, I still get LGBTQ things wrong from time to time.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

As a Hetero CIS White Guy, can I make a couple of comments?
Our culture still looks down on women who are strong, independent, assertive, and unashamed of their healthy sexuality; those qualities are seen as unabashedly positive qualities in men, but discouraged and seen as shameful in women.
True, and sadly ironic. It is something I have seen in other men, but have trouble understanding. When women did being "smart, independent, and/or assertive" (i.e., whole people) become exclusive with being "sexy"? If anything these qualities enhance a woman's "hawtness." Perhaps, I am just abnormal.
Unrealistic portrayals of men's bodies
Unrealistic portrayal of Men's Bodies?!

Selene Spires |

Selene Spires wrote:1)Or Allow for multiple healthy relationships.Point of fact. If a male player/character started building a harem, how would the group react?
Selene Spires wrote:2) One problems with both parties is for some reason people think they have to be 100% with everything their party says.I can't answer that without getting banned by the Mods here. ::the NO Politics rule. :(
Selene Spires wrote:So when asked they will say they are pro-trans right...criticize people who are not...assume the 'sound bites' are the whole truth...etc. And than something that should be a good thing happens...they meet a actual Trans person. It becomes bad when they don't fit the square box that the political parties use (so it is simple).I'm not buying the "political parties" line. Bigotry can be surprisingly diverse.
Selene Spires wrote:It is the trans person who is wrong! Instead of self examination and actually learning from that person it is easier to blame the trans person as not being 'real'.I know what you are saying; but this makes my head hurt.
Selene Spires wrote:Not being LGBTQ, I wouldn't help with that. As we have encountered elsewhere, I still get LGBTQ things wrong from time to time.I wish I knew you, Rysky, and a bunch of people here in RL.
It is very frustrating I think I really don't know any actual LGBTQ+ people in RL.
To answer question...they were two characters who were pretty scummy in regards to relationships. Though for various reasons they dropped out.
It was treated 'okay'.
Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Lord Fyre wrote:To answer question...they were two characters who were pretty scummy in regards to relationships. Though for various reasons they dropped out.Selene Spires wrote:1)Or Allow for multiple healthy relationships.Point of fact. If a male player/character started building a harem, how would the group react?
Not quite the same thing. As you said "multiple healthy relationships."
This can happen with Hetero people, just as easily … and would lead to exactly the same interpersonal conflicts that would happen in a LGBTQ "harem." Both "harem" and "reverse harem" are a real, though uncommon, literary genre. Just do a quick search on Amazon.
It was treated 'okay'.
That makes clear what I was getting at.
* - A Male Character building "multiple healthy relationships" with women would treated as "okay." "A girl in every port" is a very stereotypical male behavior* - Your Female Character building "multiple healthy relationships" with women was treated as stereotypical and wrong.

Selene Spires |

It was treated more of a in joke. They will get there's sooner or later.
Here are examples:
Player 1 went with multiple women and in front of them and in public pretty much said he was slept with both of them and all well welcome to 'to climb the mountain'. This caused the women to fight. And one of them challenged them to a duel. He lost the duel(it was to 1st blood) and than was call me after.
Player 2 was playing a scum bag on purpose. Just trying to get laid and dump them. But it was okay because he would eventually get his deserved fate.
Some how my character got lumped into the same box as Player 2 even though she was very different in how she would romance people. As I being honest in romances.
And pretty the GM either has no idea how relationships work or just lied about those encounters to justified the punishment he leveled on my character.
I think a long term 'friend' has been like a virus in my life. He is crazy and is trying to destroy my life. And I think he got to this GM. Of course no one believes me.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

And pretty the GM either has no idea how relationships work
Since you, presumably, know the person in real life, you would be in a better position to answer that anyone else.
I think a long term 'friend' has been like a virus in my life. He is crazy and is trying to destroy my life. And I think he got to this GM. Of course no one believes me.
I said this before: "I hate to say this about people I don't know, but your player group seems to be made up of a bunch of "a*~!%@#s."

Ambrosia Slaad |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

As a Hetero CIS White Guy, can I make a couple of comments?
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:Our culture still looks down on women who are strong, independent, assertive, and unashamed of their healthy sexuality; those qualities are seen as unabashedly positive qualities in men, but discouraged and seen as shameful in women.True, and sadly ironic. It is something I have seen in other men, but have trouble understanding. When women did being "smart, independent, and/or assertive" (i.e., whole people) become exclusive with being "sexy"? If anything these qualities enhance a woman's "hawtness." Perhaps, I am just abnormal.
I don't think you're abnormal; I don't think you're even in the minority of men. I think most people find competence and drive to be positive traits. But a very vocal minority of men (and women too) push back on any positive women's advances and women's progressive role models. I don't understand it either, but it's there.
There is a strong current of conservatism in the U.S., and part of that is adhering strictly to established social & familial roles. I think many self-described men's rights advocates are focused exclusively in complaining about men's issues (and there are some valid points), but they don't see that the current rigid patriarchal societal roles that they largely favor are also a straight jacket & blinders for men. But no matter how much the current system sucks for everyone, it is familiar, and many people prefer that familiarity for its illusion of false reassurance and stability. And people & social movements that appear to alter or upend that status quo are seen as threats, with any advancement in equality and acceptance for any minority will somehow take away equality from the established minority. Equality, empathy, and acceptance for others isn't a zero-sum game; on the contrary, they lift everyone.
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." - Clay Shirky
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:Unrealistic portrayals of men's bodiesUnrealistic portrayal of Men's Bodies?!
Our society still pushes images of idealized women's bodies as sexual objects and idealized men's bodies as empowerment. But the unrealistic images of men being pushed to men (and women) seem to have largely caught up to the unrealistic images of women. Look at images of male movie stars, bodybuilders, comic book characters, action figures, etc. from the 60s and 70s compared to what we have now. The images of men's physiques have become increasingly hypermuscular with disproportionately large shoulders & biceps and dwindling waists. These images are being pushed and reinforced as the end goal of masculinity for men to be happy, successful, and to be successful with women. And for over 95% of men, they're totally unattainable. When the supposed empowering goal constantly sold to men is impossible for nearly all of them, what does that do to their mental health? What does that do to young boys as they develop their own self-images? When unrealistic physical development is sold to men as the end goal instead of basic fitness and good, healthy habits, what does that do to men psychologically?
Add in that from the youngest of age, boys are constantly taught they must be emotionally strong, that they must avoid showing emotional & social weakness or uncertainty or doubt or fear or even tenderness. This too often leaves boys and men without all the social and emotional tools necessary to healthily process these disparities, to reach out for help, and to find constructive ways to break these unfair ingrained expectations. Men should be taught how and supported in to discovering their own personal path to attainable masculinity, and how that is part of being a healthy whole human being.
I dunno. I'm just an outside spectator looking in, and I've certainly got at least some things wrong in this rambling street-preacher sermon.

Selene Spires |

Honestly I feel attacked from all sides politically speaking since coming out.
There is my family which represents the more conservative movement.
There is people on the left that are uneducated and have a image of sexuality and feminine that I don't conform to. So I am lieing. I get tested and pushed...or just plain out treated like s@+&.
There are people who just hate me and just use it as point of vulnerability to attack me.
And lastly those who 'support' me are not supportive and ignore those who do attack me.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Honestly I feel attacked from all sides politically speaking since coming out.
One irony I see though is that you would be closer to their "image of feminine" if you had the kind of resources necessary. i.e., cash for the gender affirming therapy - heck, even just the freedom to dress and act feminine in your current life
And lastly those who 'support' me are not supportive and ignore those who do attack me.
We had (still have?) a plan, but raising the rest of a group seems to be a limitation. :(

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

At the risk of hijacking Selene's thread ...
"When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression." - Clay Shirky
And yes, I do catch myself feeling that way from time to time. :(
The images of men's physiques have become increasingly hypermuscular with disproportionately large shoulders & biceps and dwindling waists. These images are being pushed and reinforced as the end goal of masculinity for men to be happy, successful, and to be successful with women. And for over 95% of men, they're totally unattainable.
Sad. And both men and women are being "double squeezed." Both women and (you are right), increasingly, men are being pushed towards extreme idealizations of what they should be like.
What does that do to young boys as they develop their own self-images? When unrealistic physical development is sold to men as the end goal instead of basic fitness and good, healthy habits, what does that do to men psychologically?
Almost as much damage as it does to women (though not yet as brutally at this point). Unfortunately, one very natural psychological reaction to this is to push downward upon the people "below you" on the social hierarchy.
At the extreme, this creates the Incel problem.
Men should be taught how and supported in to discovering their own personal path to attainable masculinity, and how that is part of being a healthy whole human being.
As a society, the changes in the definition of "womanhood" have thrown the definition of "masculine" into confusion. As a society, we are still struggling to figure out what being "a man" now means. (The social advantages currently enjoyed by men actually make this task harder.)

Selene Spires |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Selene Spires wrote:Honestly I feel attacked from all sides politically speaking since coming out.One irony I see though is that you would be closer to their "image of feminine" if you had the kind of resources necessary. i.e., cash for the gender affirming therapy - heck, even just the freedom to dress and act feminine in your current life
Selene Spires wrote:And lastly those who 'support' me are not supportive and ignore those who do attack me.We had (still have?) a plan, but raising the rest of a group seems to be a limitation. :(
There is that...and they dont appreciate the safety concerns I have.
Also there is the TERF(I think that is the right term)

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Selene Spires |

Selene Spires wrote:I figured I will post to let people know I am still hanging in there.Is it safe to ask you questions again?
It is safe...can't promise you will get a answer though.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Lord Fyre wrote:It is safe...can't promise you will get a answer though.Selene Spires wrote:I figured I will post to let people know I am still hanging in there.Is it safe to ask you questions again?
Alright.
Have you heard of the term "Two Spirit"?

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Lord Fyre wrote:Afraid?Selene Spires wrote:Anymore questions?I'm afraid to ask more questions. :(
I keep asking the wrong questions, and either offending you or making things worse.

Selene Spires |

Selene Spires wrote:I keep asking the wrong questions, and either offending you or making things worse.Lord Fyre wrote:Afraid?Selene Spires wrote:Anymore questions?I'm afraid to ask more questions. :(
Well that question was little tricky as I didn't want critize another culture .
And the other was just at a very bad time for me.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Lord Fyre wrote:Well that question was little tricky as I didn't want criticize another culture.Selene Spires wrote:I keep asking the wrong questions, and either offending you or making things worse.Lord Fyre wrote:Afraid?Selene Spires wrote:Anymore questions?I'm afraid to ask more questions. :(
Yes, but it is difficult to find consistent and reliable information about LGBTQ history. It is like it was deliberately suppressed.
And the other was just at a very bad time for me.
I have (at times) felt that I was in a difficult situation, but I have NOTHING on the circumstances you are trapped in.

Selene Spires |

1) Yeah it is tough to find history because it went underground for so long. Western Culture pretty much suppressed most of the back history of it when the Church took over. And religion spread (Christianity and Islam mostly) suppressed it in areas where they became prominent. And than a lot of countries that went Communism suppressed it where religion might not have. The Victors write the history.
2) So...imagine yourself in my shoes. Sure you might not know exactly what I am going thru...but you may get a stronger feel for it.

Lord Fyre RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |

Please analyze and critique
I've written a review of an AD&D adventure I purchased late last year (and regret doing so).
--- --- ---
WARNING: Before going any further, this book as a fair amount of Non-Consensual sex in both the story and the art. The purchasing site (https://www.13thwarlock.com/product-page/tales-of-the-warlock-revenge-of-th e-gobcocker) does have an Adult Content warning, but it needs to be clearer.
The Revenge of the Gobcocker is first level adventure for AD&D, with conversion for 5th Edtion D&D, clocks in at 101 pages, 1 page front cover, 3 pages front matter, 1 page table of contents, 8 pages of new magic items, 14 pages detailing the six pre-generated characters, 14 pages of new monsters (several of which were Kickstarter stretch goals), and 1 page back cover, leaving us with 59 pages of adventure content.
Revenge of the Gobcocker is the story of a kidnapping and what becomes a rescue mission for the PCs. The adventure has several problems.
• Structurally, the adventure is a railroad, but unfortunately not one of the better ones.
• Despite the length of the adventure, this needed a larger introduction, the players will encounter a new faith (and not a benign one from the bits gleaned in the adventure text), and some background on this cult would be useful.
• The first battle requires the attacking goblins achieve at least a pyric victory (kidnapping the old knight’s younger daughter). Given the smallish size of the house, the number of NPCs, and the resourcefulness of typical adventurers this may prove challenging for the GM to stage manage.
• The adventure was written for AD&D, and given the Old School Renaissance there is some value in that. The stats and information for D&D 5E are kind of tacked on, almost as an afterthought.
• Finally, the D&D 5E OGL is nowhere to be found in the text of the adventure (as required by WotC - https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/DND/SRD-OGL_V5.1.pdf)
As noted in the page count above, the adventure includes six pre-generated characters: Thief (Human Female), Fighter (Human Male), Fighter/Cleric/Magic-User (Half-Elf Female), Ranger (Human Female), Magic-User (Human Male), and Druid (Human Female). Despite this, the use of any of these characters is not presumed in the adventure text.
• The F/C/M is the clearest evidence that this was an AD&D adventure first.
• One odd thing to note is that all four female characters are in variations of bikini armor, but the two men are fully dressed. This is pointless as there are plenty of images of all the characters in the nude.
Conclusion: As might be guessed, I do not recommend this product. It is an Art Book posing as an AD&D adventure, and for me the Non-Consensual material was a huge turn off.