Goblin Squad Member
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He surmised that almost the entire Romani population was killed in Croatia, Estonia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands.
Before you can commit genocide on a group of people, you have to set the stage that they aren't worthy to live. Using their collective name as a synonym for "cheater or swindler" is one way to do that.
Like, in actual reality. That is to say, this is real and has happened in the real world in which we live. Millions of human beings were slaughtered.
Sorry to harsh anyone's mellow. But it is important.
I want to see stonemasonry, a completely neglected profession. I mean seriously, you expect dwarves to just dig their way out of the ground to build your walls? I want to see walls that could keep out dragons!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, given that EvE is a big inspiration for Pathfinder Online, we'd like have 'Tree' Skills, from which other, specific skills branch out from.
, There might be a couple of Crafting Trees, depending upon what you choose, but let's say there's an 'Alchemy', 'Smithing', 'Farming' and 'Building' series of trees available.
Upon reaching Rank III In Building, you're given the option to specialise into Wood, Stone or Brick. Ranks I and II have taught you how to put together buildings from wood, stone and brick, how to make doors, bridges and other utility items, but now you've got a choice on how you're going to make your mark in the economy.
Wood's quick, cheap and relatively inexpensive, but is very vulnerable to fire and doesn't last too long under a sustained assault. It's a good 'Branch' skill to put up quick barricades and wooden walls around a settlement at the beginning, allowing a Wood-specialised builder to move in quickly, build substitute structures for a Chapter/Charter/Guild/Company to occupy while the other crafters get started on more durable defences and buildings.
Stone is arguably the hardest common material that players can build with, but it's expensive and takes a while to drag the materials to the site. Still, you don't want to build your fortress out of twigs, and stone will weather almost any assault without complaint.
Brick is the middle ground, cheaper than stone but more expensive than wood, and requires some prep-time to turn clay, or mud and straw, into actual bricks. That said, it's more durable than wood and is an excellent material to build non-essential buildings out of, able to take a beating from anything short of siege-engines or a pissed off Arch-Wizard.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Gah...I typed out a whole reply to HalfOrc and then hit something on my keyboard by accident which shut down my browser. So Mr. HalfOrc with a Hat of Disguise, this is a testament to how much I like your last idea...I retyped the whole thing. :)
I have always favored games with skill trees rather than classes. As a player, I want a personal choice in creating my own unique character, rather than playing a toon that seems as if it was pressed out of a mold in some particular class factory.
Your idea not only allows specialization of skill (I love specialization - to be able to create your own little niche in the game world and seem like a unique individual), but it allows for racial and regional differences - in your example, architecture. I wouldn't expect an Elven settlement to look like a Dwarven one. Also, it promotes more trade and transportation of goods, since you might desire wood for your quickly built palisade, but trees are nowhere to be found in the plains where you wish to build it. As long as these specialized skills have a genuine purpose in the world so as to make them worth the time investment for training, I think the more variety and choice the better.
Well done.
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First, the mere concept that races would divide themselves and would act as seperate nations is not only ridiculous but also limiting.
Personally they should either allow a selection of looks that a crafter can select for their creation or even better have multiple superficial elements that allows a crafter to create their own styles.
Also, I like specialization as long as it doesn't lock me out of other options. If I want to work with wood and stone then I should be able to do so.
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Goblin Squad Member
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First, the mere concept that races would divide themselves and would act as seperate nations is not only ridiculous but also limiting.
Visit Sunny Kyonin
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Goblin Squad Member
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DarkLightHitomi,
First, in every fantasy MMO I've played, there have been groups that wish to only RP one specific race and do it quite well. In PFO, what they might do (if being a monoracial settlement causes them limitations) is to hire outsiders to provide the needed skills, or even sponsor CCs of other races.
At launch, I suspect we will be limited to choices for architectural style, but with time, hopefully we will be given a nice wide range of elements to choose from. With enough specialization, you might even be able to walk into a settlement, look at it's layout, it's building facades, etc., and say, "Ah...this is definitely DarkLightHitomi's work...I'd know it anywhere." Wouldn't that be fun?
As for specialization locking you out of anything, I don't see that happening. We have not been given any indication that there will be a skill point cap or anything similar. The only limitation thus far is time, trainer availability, and your ability to complete whatever task that earns you the right to fully access that skill (badges, I think they were called). With enough of all of these, some day, in the far distant future, you should be able to master every skill.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When I say, 'Specialisation' I don't mean you then cannot advance in separate skills.
Using the Building example, say the Crafter in question goes for 'Stone'.
That doesn't mean he can't build Wooden or Brick structures, but he gains bonuses to 'Stone'-based structures, be they walls, bridges, doors or any other number of 'items' that might be used to build a structure of some form or another.
It's less a 'narrowing' of a path rather than gaining an advantage to a certain path. A specialist is always going to provide a better service than a generalist, but that doesn't always mean their abilities will be narrowed overmuch.
Put three 'Building' style crafters together, one Wood, one Brick, one Stone, and you have an awe-inspiring team who can possibly build a conglomerate building using all three types of building materials that builds upon the strengths of all three types.
A wooden frame to bear the initial stresses and outline the basics of the buildings, Bricks for the internal walls, Stone for heavy load-bearing structures and the outer walls. Bang. Your castle, built like an adamantite walnut and very quickly too.
Alternatively, the Wood Crafter can throw together the defenses quickly while the Stone crafter works on the 'Fort' itself, and the Brick Crafter builds the immediate necessities, such as a smithy, training barracks, yadda yadda.
With the speed of one Specialisation, you've got at least partial protection, with the defensive abilities of the Stone, your 'fort' isn't going to be completed any time soon, but nor will it be easily destroyed, and the brick-work buildings will provide adequate protection for your trainers and other types of crafters whom you'll need to flesh out and expand your settlement.
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Racial,
Look at real life, the only seperation between races occurs from discrimination or location and the latter is not common and becoming less so.
Any place with different races that don't hate each other are mingled. People just don't divide themselves along lines that are unimportant to them. And while some racists seperate themselves most seperation is along cultural lines which can include multiple races.
Thus my opposition to the tolkienesk concept that different races each have their own cities and towns with very little intermingling. True he he did place dwarves and elves at odds but that wasn't world wide and it was only a reletively recent development. So why didn't the elves and dwarves and men who all saw each other roughly as equals just make cites with plenty from all three races?
In tolkiens book, the people didn't see each other by culture, they saw each by race in the same places that reality sees culture. Most fantasy settings I see follow this distortion and that is what bothers me.
So by region for stylings sure, but not by race. And preferable to that is to let the players make styles. In fact they could probably have a style designer similar to halo's insignia designer, and that would be awesome.
Specialization,
A lot of games consider specialization as a lockout choice. Once you pick your specialization you aren't allowed to go back and buy the others in addition. This being the most common method I've encountered simply means that I feel clarification is warrented lest someone think I'm endorsing the common methodology.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, Golarion can be a pretty vile place at times. The Elves tend to be standoffish, the Dwarves hold grudges that makes their Warhammer counterparts feel like bhuddists, Half-Orcs and Half-Elves are often horrifically discriminated against, and don't even get me started on the halflings being slaves to three of the biggest nations on the planet.
Gnomes ... tend to just slip through the cracks.
And Humanity spends more time fighting itself over petty, stupid things than they do any other races or factions.
I'd argue racial segregation and Race X Only or Race X Mostly towns aren't all that uncommon, especially on the frontiers where the luxury of being able to trust your neighbours isn't available.
I want to see spellcrafting that actually makes new spells. I know that's a pipe-dream, but it is something you can do in the TT. but I doubt I will get it, just like I won't get to teleport into the air with people then cast fly as they fall to their doom. :(
Actually, to further that point, if you allowed us to research with spellcraft (say I wanted to be able to teleport non-willing creatures, which is not doable under the TT game's rules) in order for me to do damage to a person by dropping them from a great height, and giving them a will save to ignore my teleport (though I'm sure you would limit the height I could teleport them to below a point where they would reach terminal velocity so it wouldn't be almost 100% lethal.) It would be like meta magic but specifically applied to a certain spell, and it would function like a feat. It would be great for people who want to be the masters of a certain spell.
Clearly it can't be designed in a way that it would overcome weaknesses specifically designed to keep characters from being overpowered (as with AOEs could be if they could overcome the magical resonance,) but it might lessen the penalties in some slight way.
Climb, jump and swim, so it would feel a bit more adventurous, instead of walking to dungeons/caves/exotic place by paved road...
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Well, Golarion can be a pretty vile place at times. The Elves tend to be standoffish, the Dwarves hold grudges that makes their Warhammer counterparts feel like bhuddists, Half-Orcs and Half-Elves are often horrifically discriminated against, and don't even get me started on the halflings being slaves to three of the biggest nations on the planet.
Gnomes ... tend to just slip through the cracks.
And Humanity spends more time fighting itself over petty, stupid things than they do any other races or factions.
I'd argue racial segregation and Race X Only or Race X Mostly towns aren't all that uncommon, especially on the frontiers where the luxury of being able to trust your neighbours isn't available.
Your entire arguement stands on the assumptions I was complaining about.
Why is "Elves" that are standoffish? Why isn't it the "Lothlorians" or some Golarion culture. Why is these traits are attributed to races instead of cultures? Why isn't there a nation/culture that has multiple races with same or similar attributes from culture?
In reality everything you described the races with, "standoffish," "holds a nasty grudge," "slave," these are all cultural or individual descriptions. None of these could legitimatly be applied to a race in reality, but could be attributed to culture or individual variance.
That is my point. Attributes are being applied to races when those attributes should be applied to cultures and some cultures will include multiple races.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, Golarion can be a pretty vile place at times. The Elves tend to be standoffish, the Dwarves hold grudges that makes their Warhammer counterparts feel like bhuddists, Half-Orcs and Half-Elves are often horrifically discriminated against, and don't even get me started on the halflings being slaves to three of the biggest nations on the planet.
Gnomes ... tend to just slip through the cracks.
And Humanity spends more time fighting itself over petty, stupid things than they do any other races or factions.
I'd argue racial segregation and Race X Only or Race X Mostly towns aren't all that uncommon, especially on the frontiers where the luxury of being able to trust your neighbours isn't available.
Your entire arguement stands on the assumptions I was complaining about.
Why is "Elves" that are standoffish? Why isn't it the "Lothlorians" or some Golarion culture. Why is these traits are attributed to races instead of cultures? Why isn't there a nation/culture that has multiple races with same or similar attributes from culture?
In reality everything you described the races with, "standoffish," "holds a nasty grudge," "slave," these are all cultural or individual descriptions. None of these could legitimatly be applied to a race in reality, but could be attributed to culture or individual variance.
That is my point. Attributes are being applied to races when those attributes should be applied to cultures and some cultures will include multiple races.
It's a genre-thing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The skill / Feat I would like to see is Intimidation, and for that to have a use in the issuing of Stand-and-Deliver offers.
This does not mean it would force the traveler to accept the SAD, but it would make the bandit appear more powerful than he might actually be. That way the traveler might falsely believe that he would be better off accepting the SAD offer.
The counter to this is obviously, Perception. There can also be the opposite of this skill (Project Weakness) that would make the traveler look more powerful than he might be, potentially discouraging a bandit attack.
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The skill / Feat I would like to see is Intimidation, and for that to have a use in the issuing of Stand-and-Deliver offers.
This does not mean it would force the traveler to accept the SAD, but it would make the bandit appear more powerful than he might actually be. That way the traveler might falsely believe that he would be better off accepting the SAD offer.
The counter to this is obviously, Perception. There can also be the opposite of this skill (Project Weakness) that would make the traveler look more powerful than he might be, potentially discouraging a bandit attack.
Why can't intimidate simply be contextual? The traveler using intimidate to discourage bandits?
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Oh I agree entirely, but that's the setting we're playing in.
It all started because I was trying for crafter choosable styles rather then racial styles. This is a minor enough point that for the game they can give more varied styles instead of limiting us to racial styles and it not be immersion breaking and I seriously doubt anyone is going to be dissappointed because they had more style options then just racial styles.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The default Pathfinder world, Golarion, has some areas that see themselves as a culture, rather than a race, or a collection of segregated races.
Halflings are found almost everywhere humans live. The Pathfinder books say that they adapt to some degree to the local culture, though they do keep some aspects of their culture separate. We've seen halflings dressed in traditional Egyptian style, for example, in illustrations of Osirion.
Especially cosmopolitan areas, typically racial trade hubs like Absalom and Katapesh, have been described as areas where many races live side by side. Absalom, in particular, is said to have citizens whose race would qualify them as monsters in many other countries.
Here on Earth, contact between some cultures was limited, but they all lived on the surface of the same world. Elves have been canonically identified as aliens, who originated on another planet in the same solar system as Golarion. They crossed between worlds long ago, but then the vast majority of them went home until recently (in historical terms).
Dwarves and orcs lived almost exclusively underground for millenia, until the dwarves drove the orcs onto the surface, then followed them up. Gnomes lived in the world of the fae until not so long ago, when they migrated to Golarion en masse.
The point of all this is that out of the core races, only humans and halflings have thousands of years of exposure to one another. The others have been here for varying amounts of history, but not most of it.
I don't recall seeing much of it spelled out in the books, but I would assume that many of the other races actually contain multiple cultures, just like humans. There might be elves on their homeworld who are as different from one another as humans from different Golarion nations. We know that there are strong cultural differences between the dwarves, elves and gnomes on the surface and the ones living deep underground.
To some extent, though, treating multiple fantasy races like multiple cultures does have a solid hold on the fantasy genre.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh I agree entirely, but that's the setting we're playing in.It all started because I was trying for crafter choosable styles rather then racial styles. This is a minor enough point that for the game they can give more varied styles instead of limiting us to racial styles and it not be immersion breaking and I seriously doubt anyone is going to be dissappointed because they had more style options then just racial styles.
I'd like to see the ability to build Chelish theatres, Osirian temples and Qadiran caravanseries, eventually.
Once the game has been out a while, I'd like to be able to guess which deity a temple is dedicated to by architecture, too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh I agree entirely, but that's the setting we're playing in.It all started because I was trying for crafter choosable styles rather then racial styles. This is a minor enough point that for the game they can give more varied styles instead of limiting us to racial styles and it not be immersion breaking and I seriously doubt anyone is going to be dissappointed because they had more style options then just racial styles.
Perhaps it is not the package, but the delivery, that is found disappointing?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Why can't intimidate simply be contextual? The traveler using intimidate to discourage bandits?The skill / Feat I would like to see is Intimidation, and for that to have a use in the issuing of Stand-and-Deliver offers.
This does not mean it would force the traveler to accept the SAD, but it would make the bandit appear more powerful than he might actually be. That way the traveler might falsely believe that he would be better off accepting the SAD offer.
The counter to this is obviously, Perception. There can also be the opposite of this skill (Project Weakness) that would make the traveler look more powerful than he might be, potentially discouraging a bandit attack.
I typed the last line incorrectly. Projecting Weakness would make the traveler look less powerful, and therefore might encourage a bandit attack, and that turns out to be a trap set by the traveler.