|
Like I said if you want recognition or boons, prizes it is best done at the local level, not corporately. Come to SCARAB and volunteer for me and I'll take care of you.
It is offensive to me that you are devaluing the work done to support the campaign because someone is earning a living doing it while simultaneously saying that your work is somehow more valuable because to do not get a pay check to do it.
Not only do I not get paid for this, I have to pay paizo to market their company.
And then I'm called offensive by someone linked to the company for asking for the company to say thank you for helping them market the company.
That's it for me... time to fill the game days I'm committed to organize and walk away. Hopefully the store can find a new coordinator though I was the first willing to do it in four years.
|
|
It is offensive to me that you are devaluing the work done to support the campaign because someone is earning a living doing it while simultaneously saying that your work is somehow more valuable because to do not get a pay check to do it.
That's a gross mischaracterization of my argument. Operating on the assumption that it wasn't deliberate, I'm going to try phrasing my response to you differently.
There are five "official" tiers of commitment to the campaign: Employee, VC, VL, GM, player. We'll call them A, B, C, D, and E, respectively. Going up any given tier (E->D, B->A, whatever) is more or less an exponential amount of commitment. B&C might break that pattern a little because they're flexible, but that's not hugely relevant.
Your argument seems to be that Tier D should not complain because Tier A does more work and is also not rewarded. This is not true.
A gets the most reward: They draw a paycheck, they're on the inside, they get the books (or at least I assume so, didn't Mike say something about his wife having WBG!2 like two months ago?). B gets a lot of free merch. C gets some free merch. D & E each get credit applied to one character. And everyone gets to enjoy playing the game to some degree, so that's a wash.
Tier D's commitment to the campaign is not superior to Tier A's commitment to the campaign, and I never said it was. However, I am saying that Tiers A, B, and C are all being rewarded in ways that scale to their level of commitment.
Tier D & E, however, receive the same rewards for disproportionate amounts of work put in. This is the problem that I am suggesting we should rectify.
2. Yes, there are a lot of people who come in somewhere between Tiers C & D; I was one of them for several months, when I started and coordinated a local game day for several months. However, that's not an official position, and unless we're wanting to codify it--a separate thread if ever there was one--it does not fit into this model.
|
|
That's it for me... time to fill the game days I'm committed to organize and walk away. Hopefully the store can find a new coordinator though I was the first willing to do it in four years.
Unless you're deliberately trying to make sure nobody else gets the rewards that you're claiming you're going to quit over instead of fighting for, stomping off like this is counterproductive.
|
There are five "official" tiers of commitment to the campaign: Employee, VC, VL, GM, player. We'll call them A, B, C, D, and E, respectively. Going up any given tier (E->D, B->A, whatever) is more or less an exponential amount of commitment. B&C might break that pattern a little because they're flexible, but that's not hugely relevant.
Actually there are two.
Employee and Customer.
Moving up the chain is not 'more or less an exponential amount of commitment' because they aren't even on the same continuum.
That's like saying that you are somehow part of the McDonalds staff now because you ate there heaps.
Erm. No.
There are not five tiers, there are two groups, one group is paid, the other pays... the only part you got right was that some pay more than others.
|
That 'Game of Chicken' analogy is so packed with truth it should have come with a warning. That's exactly what's occurred in my neck of the woods. Everyone sits around, and finally someone has to be the one to exasperatedly stand up and start organising games for the idle players, all of whom are asking when the next game is happening.
I disagree with Delbert's claim that organising Pathfinder Society is an act of charity by Paizo.
I think we're not being too clear about what we want for our veteran GMs - is it discounts? boons? gratitude from players? Let's give Paizo some more concrete examples of what we think would be a realistic reward for hitting those upper echelons.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
|
Frankly, as much as I would appreciate a discount on some product, I think that is unlikely to happen. I do think the boon idea is the most workable yet, in no small part because using one of the boons in a game points out the fact that the player has GMmed X games, which raises awareness amongst others at the table.
I'm still rather attached to my free raise bit, too, because a lot of people have characters that they may really enjoy who are dead permanently due to some of the rougher lower level scenarios. Wouldn't it be a nice nod to GMs to allow them to get those PCs back? It would have zero impact on the game economy, and a similar boon was released with the Beginner's Box.
|
|
There are five "official" tiers of commitment to the campaign: Employee, VC, VL, GM, player. We'll call them A, B, C, D, and E, respectively. Going up any given tier (E->D, B->A, whatever) is more or less an exponential amount of commitment. B&C might break that pattern a little because they're flexible, but that's not hugely relevant.Actually there are two.
Employee and Customer.
Moving up the chain is not 'more or less an exponential amount of commitment' because they aren't even on the same continuum.
That's like saying that you are somehow part of the McDonalds staff now because you ate there heaps.
Erm. No.
There are not five tiers, there are two groups, one group is paid, the other pays... the only part you got right was that some pay more than others.
Uhhh ... that's a different model, not a contradiction of mine.
To use your analogy, the GMs would be the people who routinely pack 3-7 people into their car and drive them to McDonald's ... as part of a special program BY McDonald's ... and were then asked to pay for their food with all their passengers.
Which is a pretty good analogy, actually!
|
|
Which actually is my model, which does contradict yours.
I'm glad you got on board.
You were trying to assert that there was some continuum from A-E and that they were all somehow in the same boat, which they most definitely are not.
Not only do they pack 3-7 people in their car and take them to McDonalds, they also pay for their own gas etc.
Totally different from somone on the payroll, and has very little to do with being 'more or less an exponential amount of commitment'.
|
|
No, no, I'm saying they should be in the same boat. Well, a much smaller one, but bigger than the one they're in. VOs aren't employees--they receive compensation, but it's not the same, and it is very much a volunteer position. Therefore each boat is smaller than the one before it. But that's fair.
The point is that the GMs are getting the short end of the stick, because they're putting in more work to this overall marketing campaign that is PFS than the players, but getting no extra compensation.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
One other thing I'd like to address from Mr. Collins' post:
They support this great forum and their staff is constantly reading and responding to the posts and have taken into account the feedback from the participants on a large number of issues and are constantly looking for ways to make the campaign better.This reminds me of something that's been bugging me: We're a full week into this thread, with 145 posts, and it was spawned from another thread that ran 267 posts over 10 days. There has not been a single Paizo representative checking in to say something like, "We're listening." Or anything else, except "I removed some posts."
Which is why I'm so confident I'm going to win my bet. Unfortunately.
Man, I've got a whole year. Don't get cocky on me, yet; it's only been a week.
Like I said if you want recognition or boons, prizes it is best done at the local level, not corporately. Come to SCARAB and volunteer for me and I'll take care of you.
It is offensive to me that you are devaluing the work done to support the campaign because someone is earning a living doing it while simultaneously saying that your work is somehow more valuable because to do not get a pay check to do it.
Delbert, I am going to respectfully ask you to read three posts:
1st: Doug's comment on this thread.
2nd: My response to him.
The reason: I don't think anyone here is DEMANDING that their efforts be recognized. They are certainly saying it would be nice if they were. And I think what you see in someone like Doug is what Paizo can accomplish with everyone here, if just a little extra effort is put forth on their part. And, once again, many of the options being discussed are cost neutral (boons), or are even being floated as a potential profit point for Paizo (t-shirts for purchase).
I'm only asking you to look at this, and consider what I'm saying, because I want you to have a little perspective shift. In other words, I just don't think you should be offended.
I have been running games and coordinating game days for 3 & 1/2 years, now. I have purchased every single PFS scenario out there. I even subscribe to the Adventure Path line so that I can get a 15% discount on those PDFs (even though I could get the APs at cost; thankfully Paizo offers an awesome discount on the AP line, and the PDF makes it worthwhile for me).
I print out all my scenarios for my GMs.
I lend them minis, maps, and materials when needed.
I bought a bunch of t-shirts that I give out to GMs when they hit 10 games in my store.
I have given away books, dice, miniatures, food, and drinks as prizes at various events and for various accomplishments (JP's fifth star, for instance, earned him a $50 gift certificate from me).
I am considering getting dice bags for them (again, at my own expense).
I have spent, and will continue to spend, a ton of money on this organized play system. Why? Because it makes my store money. Paizo is in the same position. Goodwill is in their best interest, just as it is in my own best interest.
And, if Paizo chooses not to do anything, I will continue to do these things. I think most of the GMs here will, too. There is no need to be contentious about this.
Edited: For grammar. Once again. Sigh...
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
The point is that the GMs are getting the short end of the stick, because they're putting in more work to this overall marketing campaign that is PFS than the players, but getting no extra compensation.
This isn't really any different from the volunteers who step up to run scout troops, or help schools with after-hours activities, or coach a little league team, or . . .
In fact Paizo GMs are in some way better off - they do actually get to play occasionally, unlike most of those other volunteers.
|
|
The point is that the GMs are getting the short end of the stick, because they're putting in more work to this overall marketing campaign that is PFS than the players, but getting no extra compensation.This isn't really any different from the volunteers who step up to run scout troops, or help schools with after-hours activities, or coach a little league team, or . . .
In fact Paizo GMs are in some way better off - they do actually get to play occasionally, unlike most of those other volunteers.
Scout troops, after-school activities, and little league teams are not for-profit businesses.
|
|
Scout troops, after-school activities, and little league teams are not for-profit businesses.
And as someone who volunteers their time in pretty much all of the above, we usually get some form of thank you gift, usually at the end of year/season, and they tend to consist of a bottle of wine, box of chocolates, small gift vouchers (the troop gives $50 vouchers to camping supply stores usually) or even a few sausages at a thank you BBQ.
Just rounding out the perspective there :)
|
Like I said if you want recognition or boons, prizes it is best done at the local level, not corporately. Come to SCARAB and volunteer for me and I'll take care of you.
It is offensive to me that you are devaluing the work done to support the campaign because someone is earning a living doing it while simultaneously saying that your work is somehow more valuable because to do not get a pay check to do it.
Maybe I'm misreading your tone here, but I must disagree.
I don't think a local coordinators efforts are more valuable than those of a paid employee, but I don't think they are especially less valuable either. No local coordinator should ever be expected to spend even more of their own time, effort, and money to reward others for doing their part. This is a community where we are all mutually dependent on each other to be able to enjoy the game. Given that, I think that everyone has a responsibility to ensure the health of our gaming communities in whatever ways they can. Someone who is GMing every 4-6 games isn't "stepping up." They are simply doing their part.
Am I surprised and thankful when I go to a con and get a GM goodie bag? Yes, absolutely (and some have been truly amazing). But I do not expect it. Knowing that such things come from the organizer's personal resources means that I am fine with getting a sincere thank you from them. Give me tables of engaged and enjoyable players on top of it (with no drama :D) and you'll see me at the next con for sure.
I have been reading this thread steadily and have given more and more thought to it. As a local coordinator what I want more than shiny baubles as a thank you is better tools to organize game days. Help me by providing tools to show me what scenarios my local players have played vs. not. Help me to know when my local GMs are hitting their star milestones. Help me set up recurring events on the event listing.
I agree to what Master Linder has said. Every word.
It is offensive to me however, to say that the time and energy I've put to date means nothing in comparison to another person's experiences, time and personal investment into our organization. We all are in this together, and we are all in it because we love the game and the community. Take away the stars and the titles, cause at the end of the day we're all equal gamers here.
And although I am going to take a grain of salt and hope that this is not what Master Collins meant, taken in the wrong context I can see why people want to jump ship at the sheer rudeness of this text and tone.
Listen, I'm not any cool Venture-Officer, but as an organizer, the best boon for me, is anything that helps my organization grow. If it's a boon or bauble then that's cool. But if it's like what's in the bold text I've highlighted, you have guaranteed my loyalty even further. By making my job easier, I can spend more time with my groups and growing them and less time doing all the boring administrative stuff. It allows me to keep tabs on my players and celebrate their achievements in my own personal ways.
Which was the point of this original thread.
And somehow it has not only gotten lost, but we might have lost another organizer to the group.
This is not what we should be representing, and this does make me worry about the future of the organization as a whole, when we can easily send people packing because of personal egos blowing up and sheer rudeness. (Unintentional or otherwise.) So let's do better team? ok?
|
|
That's it for me... time to fill the game days I'm committed to organize and walk away. Hopefully the store can find a new coordinator though I was the first willing to do it in four years.Unless you're deliberately trying to make sure nobody else gets the rewards that you're claiming you're going to quit over instead of fighting for, stomping off like this is counterproductive.
Look, if Paizo wants to thank people they will. I've had my say and I'm not going to ram my head into the goal post. It's suppose to be a game, and it doesn't feel like it anymore.
I've a commitment to the store I organize at til the end of June. I will fulfill that but I could better use my time and money doing charity work for a charity rather than a for profit company.
|
|
The non-existence of star-level GM rewards does not/will not make me GM any less than I already do; and it certainly won't cause me to stop GMing altogether. The credit that I occasionally apply to one of my characters is motivation enough for me to continue running games at my current frequency. If there were GM rewards that could be earned after running X amount of games...would that motivate me to GM more frequently? It might, although certainly not to the point where I would overextend myself.
One thing I've noticed about any sort of organized play at the local level is that there are typically one or two people who perform the lion's share of the organization and running of events; for RPGs these are most often the GMs. Once these dedicated individuals become burned out or otherwise lose interest in the game it can cause entire playing communities to collapse unless there is someone else who is willing to step up. And I do believe that proper GM rewards would not only motivate the dedicated few to maintain their interest in running games; but it would also encourage others to step up should their ship lose its rudder.
As to what form these rewards take? Boons would certainly be the lowest cost alternative; it should probably be something a little bit better than your average holiday/novel boon but a little less powerful than a convention-level boon. Other ideas already mentioned, t-shirts, dice & other accessories, discounted product, etc. would certainly be welcome but also come with costs associated with production and shipping.
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
A t-shirt from Paizo [. . .] may actually make matters worse. There really are selfish idiots that will make comments like, "You're the one with the fancy shirt from Paizo. Why should I run a game?"
Yes indeed. The more we do to distinguish GMs from players, the more we do to provide excuses for those who just want to enjoy the fruits of other people's effort without lifting a finger themselves.
I don't go quite as far as Pain Lord in advocating 100% of players contribute to the community - I think if you can get to 50% involvement you should be OK - but there's a problem if the typical GM is judging more often than he (or she) gets a chance to play. This is definitely made worse if the players believe they are entitled to play, and it's up to somebody else to provide them with a judge. That attitude might be excusable at a convention (when they've paid money for a seat at the table, not to mention hotel expenses, etc.), but it isn't good at a game store.
We're lucky in my local area - we've got a good pool of experienced GMs to draw on, and enough of the newer players are signing up to judge occasionally that we can just about keep up with the explosive growth in PFS that we are seeing (anything from 50% to 100% in the last year). But even so we do have problems from time to time; one recent game night ended up with everyone going home because nobody registered to judge the scenario most of the players had signed up to play.
While I don't think it is a good thing for this to happen on a regular basis, there has been one good thing to come of it - word got around to the other local game stores, and much of the player base seem to have taken on board the message that they need to come up with a few more judges to avoid this happening again.
IMO, that's the important message to get across - people need to feel "this is a problem we have to fix", not "this is a problem that you/they have to fix".
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
The single largest organized play system ever developed for a game is The DCI for Magic: the Gathering. It is massive, and continues to grow by leaps and bounds every year.
Do you really think the only reason it is so large is because people just want to judge and organize for it for the fun of it?
Do you really think that the rewards they offer are the ONLY reason people judge and organize for it?
I have to admit to being a little startled at the assumptions people are making. On both sides, by the way.
|
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
|
I'd also like to comment on remarks I've seen on this thread that point at what venture officers or convention GMs receive from Paizo.
Note: this doesn't include free con badges. Most of the time that's a benefit offered by the con to anyone who judges enough tables, not something specific to PFS.
Sure, as convention GMs, My wife and I have been eligible to receive free downloads of the scenarios we'll be running. Most of the time, though, this isn't of any value. At the next con, for example, we've only signed up to judge scenarios one of us has already run, so we've already got the scenarios on the shelf. Even if that's not the case the downloads are quite often only authorized a couple of weeks before the event. We try and prepare well ahead of time (with highlighted scenarios, separately printed stat blocks, etc.), and prepping three or more scenarios in the last week or so before the con just isn't giving us enough time.
We do, of course, often get boons for judging multiple tables. After a bit of judicious boon trading we were both able to get Kitsune boons last year. I don't deny that being able to play those characters has been fun.
I don't have first-hand knowledge of what venture officers get from Paizo. But I do have some idea of how much those guys in our area put in, out of their own pocket, to support local conventions; even a hardcopy of every rulebook, campaign setting, player companion, flip mat, ... wouldn't come close to being fair compensation.
|
|
The single largest organized play system ever developed for a game is The DCI for Magic: the Gathering. It is massive, and continues to grow by leaps and bounds every year.
Do you really think the only reason it is so large is because people just want to judge and organize for it for the fun of it?
Do you really think that the rewards they offer are the ONLY reason people judge and organize for it?
I have to admit to being a little startled at the assumptions people are making. On both sides, by the way.
This is far beyond comparing apples and oranges....more like comparing apples and turtles.
|
Unlocking a special boon would be a nice reward for GMing. I am often scrambling to get new GMs to step up. They oggle my race boon, if they had a road to getting one without the expense of going to a Con, and maybe getting one, maybe they would step up... or maybe they would still be fence-sitters. Hard to say.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
This is far beyond comparing apples and oranges....more like comparing apples and turtles.The single largest organized play system ever developed for a game is The DCI for Magic: the Gathering. It is massive, and continues to grow by leaps and bounds every year.
Do you really think the only reason it is so large is because people just want to judge and organize for it for the fun of it?
Do you really think that the rewards they offer are the ONLY reason people judge and organize for it?
I have to admit to being a little startled at the assumptions people are making. On both sides, by the way.
I run a $750,000 business that requires both of these organized play systems to run in perfect order. I get hundreds of players for each system through my store each month. I am a level one judge and working on my level two for magic, along with being a Premiere level store for The DCI. Paizo makes it fully apparent how much experience I have with PFS. I promise you I'm not comparing apples and turtles.
|
|
I think Deane meant in terms of the nature of the games.
In Magic it's a small request to gift judges a new card which may only be worthwhile from a collector's point of view. Maybe 20c lost by Wizards?
If Paizo gifts GMs pdfs or even books they lose $20 or more. The product line and emphasis on big valuable products makes it tougher to start a freebie service.
Perhaps someone could do an economic comparison of the freebies that Magic Judges get, so we can get a financial baseline of when or how Paizo could match Wizards freebies structure.
For instance, a Magic judge gets $a of free goods when they have judged b games. A system can be made where a PFS judge gets $a of free goods when they have GMed c PFS scenarios.
(Of course, whenever I talk about actual financial rewards, I think it's critical that there's a VC or VL around somewhere that can ensure the system isn't being exploited.)
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
I think Deane meant in terms of the nature of the games.
In Magic it's a small request to gift judges a new card which may only be worthwhile from a collector's point of view. Maybe 20c lost by Wizards?
If Paizo gifts GMs pdfs or even books they lose $20 or more. The product line and emphasis on big valuable products makes it tougher to start a freebie service.
Not an accurate comparison, at all. For one thing, it costs more than that per card, for sure, simply because they spend more than that on the price of the stamp to send it to me. Then there's the envelope, and the packaging, along with the "thank you" letter. And they have more than once stated that the cost to produce a promotional card is not "cheap" by any stretch. They feel the cost is offset by the goodwill that is generated.
For much of what people in this thread are proposing for Paizo, there are offers to PAY for the item, and even if it's a profit point for Paizo, they would be happy with it.
I am comparing the willingness of the two companies to do these things, and what it means to their organized play systems. The game that is being played really has nothing to do with how the volunteer organization that sets it in motion is run (and rewarded).
Edit: And, by the way, Judge promos are usually highly sought after cards, and not just from a collector standpoint. The ones they award judges at large scale events often range in price from $100 to $200 on the after-market. Cards don't reach that level of pricing unless they are highly desirable (which means they are playable in many formats). These particular ones are, of course, only awarded to high level judges (think 5-star GM level).
|
|
Paizo makes a range of products, not all of them 'books and pdfs', similarly, the rare and interesting boons cost less than cards.
At the end of the day, lets go crazy for a moment and say Paizo 'gave' you access to a PDF as a thanks, how much are they really losing on the exchange? Not a lot, because at the end of the day the PDF is still more of their product which you will be using to GM more of their product for other people.
As also stated above, some people are even willing to pay for their newly unlocked merchandise.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Except one company makes cards and the other makes books and pdfs. That puts in some clear differences with access to organized play system product rewards.
Are they differences that can be overcome with a calculator and some rigid guidelines? Definitely!
I honestly think the only thing it does is broaden Paizo's options. If you reward a Magic player/judge with anything other than a Magic card, they complain.
Give a PFS player/judge access to an exclusive t-shirt, boon, button, character folio, dice, special avatar on the boards, PDF, book, or even just an autographed picture of Mike Brock holding up a sign that says, "This player gets a free reroll because I say so (once per session)," and I think that guy is stoked.
Paizo has a ton of options. Many of them wouldn't cost them much at all. Many of them could even be PROFITABLE.
WotC is forced to dole out cards.
|
|
Not really; each is an event put together by organisers for the benefit of a community.This is far beyond comparing apples and oranges....more like comparing apples and turtles.The single largest organized play system ever developed for a game is The DCI for Magic: the Gathering. It is massive, and continues to grow by leaps and bounds every year.
Do you really think the only reason it is so large is because people just want to judge and organize for it for the fun of it?
Do you really think that the rewards they offer are the ONLY reason people judge and organize for it?
I have to admit to being a little startled at the assumptions people are making. On both sides, by the way.
Most Magic tournaments I've seen are put together by for profit groups in an attempt to make a profit, not as community benefits.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
Most Magic tournaments I've seen are put together by for profit groups in an attempt to make a profit, not as community benefits.Not really; each is an event put together by organisers for the benefit of a community.This is far beyond comparing apples and oranges....more like comparing apples and turtles.The single largest organized play system ever developed for a game is The DCI for Magic: the Gathering. It is massive, and continues to grow by leaps and bounds every year.
Do you really think the only reason it is so large is because people just want to judge and organize for it for the fun of it?
Do you really think that the rewards they offer are the ONLY reason people judge and organize for it?
I have to admit to being a little startled at the assumptions people are making. On both sides, by the way.
Like conventions for gamers? Or stores trying to sell products to the players of said game? Completely accurate.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
So what's the next step?
Getting feedback from Paizo.
I think they're just too busy to pay attention to things like this, and don't want to take the time to analyze whether something like this is worth it, or even viable. But, until Mike, Mark or John chimes in on a topic like this, it will forever be dead in the water, and an academic discussion at best.
|
|
My two cents, why not. 'Kickbacks' for running PFS would be awesome. Hell, let's not mince words here; Wizards doesn't even try to hide the fact they're moneygrubbers anymore, and they still send 'swag' to GMs for running some things (although that swag has steadily decreased in quality and worth).
That being said. Yeah, you pay for the scenarios. You also pay for the books; pay for modules; pay for dice, et cetera. You paid for a lot of these things before hearing of PFS, more than likely. Why? YOU GM BECAUSE YOU WANT TO. Like I said, extra bennies would rock, but to those who are taking this -way- too far, get a grip. Let me put it like this:
You used to run games, or play in games other people ran, without complaints, because it was for the love of the game. Now that you find an organized group, you somehow expect to get paid to do what you were doing for free anyway. That's just... stupid. I'd LOVE to get 5 stars, get to go to PaizoCon. With the infrequency my group plays, that'll take several YEARS to achieve. I still run, because I enjoy doing it.
As I said. My opinions. I'll read insightful counterpoints, but don't argue pointlessly with me, I won't bother giving it a second thought - I don't indulge in flame wars.
*Edit: Added a word.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
This thread started to heat up while Mike was on vacation and is now traveling and gaming in Europe. While it may be true that he has been busy, he's always been very good at paying attention to all threads.So what's the next step?Getting feedback from Paizo.
I think they're just too busy to pay attention to things like this, and don't want to take the time to analyze whether something like this is worth it, or even viable. But, until Mike, Mark or John chimes in on a topic like this, it will forever be dead in the water, and an academic discussion at best.
I agree. That's why feedback from him (or Mark or John) is the next step.
I'm certainly not holding the fact that they are busy against them. There just isn't a "next step" that can be taken (beyond more debate) without input from Paizo.
PS - Considering what I've read of his plans in various blogs, I suspect Mike will be nearly incommunicado for much of the foreseeable future, and that this isn't isolated to this time frame. Which, again, I do not hold against him. That, too, is an important part of a successful organized play system's marketing.
|
|
Don't assume that just because they aren't posting responses that they aren't paying attention or haven't noticed. You would be surprised how much they look at these boards. John replied to a post I made in the veterans vault thread. I was rather surprised. If they don't catch something, I'm sure an intern will swiftly deliver any important information. Perhaps they choose to remain silent on a lot of things because it's very difficult to address thousands of people individually in the limited amount of time they have each day.
|
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
|
Very true, both of you.
To reiterate, though: I'm not really complaining. I just don't expect a lot of action from any of them. They have GenCon on their plate. Getting involved in a discussion like this is not a simple "yes/no" thing. I get that. So, it is something that can be backburnered until there is more time to really hash out details and ideas. Assuming they are even interested, of course.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
|
Well, if that's the case, then perhaps we should keep the petty bickering going until the Paizo staff has time to respond.
Oy! You there! You with the funny face! Yes, you! I find your position on this matter to be abhorrent! How do you manage to get up every morning and keep slinging those fetid words onto your keyboard, you festering, stinking poltroon! How dare you say [insert argument here]?!
|
|
Oy! You there! You with the funny face! Yes, you! I find your position on this matter to be abhorrent! How do you manage to get up every morning and keep slinging those fetid words onto your keyboard, you festering, stinking poltroon! How dare you say [insert argument here]?!
Why... why.. your [insert argument here] hoit my feewings.
I'm gonna tell mike brock on you...
|
With the DCI guys being forced to give out cards to judges, they actually sacrifice quite a bit in doing that. The cost per card is much higher than you might think, as someone who works for a printery, I can tell you the cost of printing a single magic card like that can be staggering. Figure you have to buy the material it is being printed on. This is a large stack of reems, but you use maybe half of it depending on how big the print run is. Then the cost of upkeep on the machines used to cut and print the cards including the cost of the ink. Then there is the cost of shipping and warehousing, it stacks up quick. And thats not counting paying the guys like me to do the work.
And how dare you make comments about how halarious my face is? I will *redacted* with your *redacted* until your *redacted* comes down with a basket of puppies and *redacted*
|
Wrath, I used to run a WoTC store, Cost of cards is laughable. I think we got packs of cards for .43c back in 2003-2004? So even if inflation takes it up to .89c or so per pack, the amount of money WoTC makes on Magic is staggering.
Back to point. This is a game, people forget that. I wish I could run more often than I do, but I did a lot of work for the RPGA, was one of the best judges at major con's, provided people with a good time, but at the end, I just want to play when I came, and recover my health from a long time of poor self treatment.
But the last part of that paragraph aside, this is a game, we do it for the lulz, we have fun, we play to make new friends, or entertain old ones. I don't understand what more people really want? No one is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do. We're here for the camaraderie, or at least I am.
A lot of people in this thread need to step back, and re-evaluate why they do this (hobby). It's a game, in a shared world, and no one is special in it. SO just go with the flow and have fun while you can, yeah?