Ashton Green |
There's a local sci-fi con in my area, that has an open games room, which is mostly board games. They charge $45 for a weekend ticket, $34 for students. I can't recall specifically what a day ticket is, probably in the $30 range.
I've started discussing running some PFS stuff in their 24 hour games room.
Since the theme is Pirates, it would make sense to run the then to be sanctioned Skulls and Shackles. I'm guessing I'd want a pair of 4 hour slots for that.
Any feedback on how much PFS you'd want at a local con for $45, or how much time it might take to run an AP module, based on having run one of the two current AP modules, would be appreciated.
Rob Duncan |
I would suggest "Big Mac" economics for this one:
Movie - $8/person (2 hrs)
Bowling - $6/person (2 hrs)
Driving range - $8/person (2 hrs)
A slot is 4 hours, so that would put me right at $12-$16 range.
I would probably say that I would like to get at least two slots for the price of a day ticket at $30.
For a module, I'd say double time and schedule it for eight hours which is spot on with your pair of slots.
I'd say $30 for somebody to play a module at a con is not unreasonable, but some facebook research or surveymonkey polls might help judge economic interest in your area...
If it were /me/ dropping $30, I'd expect full color handouts, either professionally printed maps/flipmat/tiles or very well drawn maps on grid paper, pawns or minis, and a really excellent GM with a command of the rules and an enjoyable style (such as with voice acting).
dragonvan |
I would suggest two or three since it will take from 4 to 5 hours schedule for a game and some players would have pay to go at the Con in first hand.
Depending at which hours they begin, a exemple for a con that begins at 9 AM, I would put a 9 AM to 1 PM game, 2 PM to 6 PM and 7h to 11h. The exemple is taken from CanGames, Ottawa, ON, Canada.
If the con closes before 11 PM, consider two slots.
rknop |
Based on past experience at VCON (which is what this con is), there's not a whole lot of RPGing going on there. I've seen some 3.5, I've played a couple of GURPS games, I've run a Fudge game, but I don't think at the moment more than four or five RPGs in total run each day of the con.
Part of this is the "if you build it they will come" thing; people don't run RPGs very much at the con, so people don't play it, and because there aren't people there playing it, nobody runs a game because if they try they don't get enough people.
If you want to try to advertise it as being a place where PFS will happen, in order to bring Pathfinder gamers in who might not otherwise have come to the con, that might work. It might also be good, though, to try to attract newbies as well. I do think that there would be interest for more games than happen, if they're advertised, especially if they're advertised before the con starts. (The Fudge game I ran last year was done spontaneously; I was there looking at signup sheets, and a couple of other people and I bemoaned that there weren't enough RPGs. I said I had a game prepared and designed for a con that I could run, so I put it together with a commitment from them at least that they would play. I ended up with six or seven players at the table.)
In any event, it's good to have a "Plan B"-- e.g. if you have GMs lined up, make it so that they'll have spots to play in other another game if their own game doesn't "make". Also, I'm not sure running an AP makes sense at a con, since really you want to have the same players sticking around for more than one session. The standard PFS scenarios are tailor-made for cons; despite the pirate them, I'd still stick with those rather than try to run Skull & Shackles.
Ashton Green |
It's a half day Friday, full day saturday, and Half day Sunday.
The Gaming room will be open from about 12 noon friday, til 6pm Sunday evening.
People will be buying a Con pass, not just a pass for the games room. So they'll have access to all the cool stuff the con offers, but I'm not sure how much will actually appeal to people who came out purely for the PFS.
I'd like to be running enough tables that PFS people feel it's worth attending the Con.
I'm thinking currently one game at 1pm-5pm Friday, another from 7pm-11pm. Saturday, Probably 11am-3pm, 4pm-8pm, and then Sunday 11am-3pm. I could tighten it up bit, potentially.
And that doesn't include potential special events like the Midnight Games, which would be non-PFS.
Ashton Green |
rknop, yes. it's Vcon. We hadn't 100% sorted out the details yet, so I was keeping it theoretical.
Agreed, there isn't really much in the way of RPGs happening at Vcon, the games room is mostly Board games. I'm aiming to change that. I've posted to the Vancouver PFS meetup group about the event to judge to level of interest.
The Skulls and Shackles PFS version isn't the full AP. It's a PFS sanctioned set of fights from the AP. It hasn't been released yet, but should be released sometime around August, if I'm understanding the schedules. Looking at the 2 APs that are sanctioned, you can see that it's a very compressed version of the AP, designed to be run in the time it would normally take for a module.
A table with the Beginner Box/Beginner Bash and First steps alternating would be good.
A table that's running normal Season 4 or 5 APs at various levels would be a definite.
A table with a Hero Lab Laptop for character creation would be great, if a bit ambitious.
Jason S |
I think $45 is OK for a weekend pass. GMs should never have to pay, if they run a few games.
Everyone has different monetary threshholds, so it's an impossible question to answer. Robert's assessment is good, but gamers aren't always logical and are notoriously cheap.
It does seem a little expensive for a local con though. For example, Cangames (the longest running gaming convention in Canada), is only $23 for the weekend.
Edit: Yikes, it's Vancouver, which is really expensive. Yes, $45 is OK.
rknop |
I've already got #31 and #38, so if you want me to run those at VCON, I can do it :) I don't want to commit to specific times yet, though, because if things go like last year, I will end up giving a talk about something astronomy related and being on a couple of science-related panels.
(Also, as those are higher-level scenarios, there's less likely to be people with characters able to play them.)
Sarta |
Do the con organizers offer any sort of incentive for folks who run games? I know that the deal we negotiate in Northern California is that if an attendee runs three slots, con attendance is free.
Of course counting food, gas, and lodging that still may mean hundreds of dollars for the con if you aren't local.
Ashton Green |
I know that the con organizers have incentives for people running things, what those boil down to, I can't confirm specifically at this time. I've emailed them to discuss it. From what I remember, a certain number of hours of running stuff gets you a half priced badge, and there might be a certain number of hours that gets you a free badge. That's still stuff that needs to be sorted out.
Yes, Vancouver is expensive. And this is a Fan-run Sci-Fi Con.
Bob, thanks for the Pirate themed scenario list. I'll review those when I get a chance.
The Sanctioned AP idea was suggested by our Northern BC Venture Captain, and I really like the idea of it. Especially since it'll have just been sanctioned. I'm not willing to give up on the idea yet, but until that AP gets sanctioned, it's just an idea.
As for a Plan B, one plan B would be to have the Pathfinder card game handy, since it'll have been published by then.
At this stage, we don't know how much space we'll have, or what sort of slots we'll be running, but when we know more, I'll let you know. I completely understand the need to work around other panels.
godsDMit |
I think it depends on the convention. It's not just about how much PFS is going on, but what all else is going on that may help you attract PFS players who do other things as well, as well as trying to attract new players.
For example:
As stated above, Cape Comic Con was like $18 for a weekend gaming pass. They had PFS all weekend (6 slots?), plus MtG tournies, a decent vendor selection, and a costume contest (being hosted by a guy who could identify hardly any costumes and was so loud on the microphone that we had to stop playing for about 45 minutes).
Avg slot cost $3.
Egypt Wars (my local con, weekend before last) was $25 for the weekend if you preregistered and prepayed on the Warhorn site, but $30 or $35 at the door. We did 9 slots of PFS over the weekend (7 at the con, 2 unrelated to the con, but used as incentive to bring people to the con). Many other games, including MtG, were run, but the dealer selection was still pretty lackluster.
Avg slot cost ~$3-4, depending on if you prereistered and prepayed.
Despite the prices being nearly the same, your value of which con was better would depend on what you were looking for outside of PFS. If that doesnt matter, then it would be what was different about the cons (the answer being all 5 levels of Thornkeep run at CCC, and Bonekeep being run at Egypt Wars).
For $45, I'd hope for closer to 9 than 6, though I generally dont go to a con if I cant get in free for GMing. :P
Sarta |
Fire up your base! From personal experience, the more people you can get to show and play PFS, the more freedom you will be granted at future cons. Take all comers. Offer kid track and beginner box bashes.
Your ideal goal will be for the con organizer to realize that all he or she has to do is allow you to organize the PFS portion of the con, let him or her know how many tables you need, and who your GM's will be. They then just need to grant passes to those GM's and give you the play space.
This really is to the con organizer's advantage. Running a con is a huge pain in the neck. Once he or she realizes that they don't have to worry about the PFS crew -- and that you will also welcome and seat any and all who may be interested -- it will be a big weight off their shoulders.
Dominick Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf |
My two cents is you should have 6-10 slots of Pathfinder with an hour break between.
I usually offer a full time volunteer gets a pass, and offer it to the local established judges and organizers. They also are going to talk up your event. I also find they will have iPads or tablets and that helps with printing costs.
Everything Seth said is good. I may add be picky about volunteers, the guy who never ran at a con may have a good heart, but may also go five hours for intro I.
I use warhorn, I strongly suggest you use it too.
Pre muster and assign people to tables, follow the plan but be prepared to modify it.
Rob Duncan |
Fire up your base! From personal experience, the more people you can get to show and play PFS, the more freedom you will be granted at future cons. Take all comers. Offer kid track and beginner box bashes.
Your ideal goal will be for the con organizer to realize that all he or she has to do is allow you to organize the PFS portion of the con, let him or her know how many tables you need, and who your GM's will be. They then just need to grant passes to those GM's and give you the play space.
This really is to the con organizer's advantage. Running a con is a huge pain in the neck. Once he or she realizes that they don't have to worry about the PFS crew -- and that you will also welcome and seat any and all who may be interested -- it will be a big weight off their shoulders.
I would think, based on the experience of some of the VCs here, that you:
(1) have a solid idea of the price/value component.
(2) know how many slots you need to run
(3) understand the desperate need for advertising and coordination (presale signups are key.. having somebody pay $45 and then not have a seat is bad karma)
Some things I would note:
(a) running an AP means you are asking people to commit to 8 hours of gaming at a con when there is other stuff to do; this a failing point of mine at Tokyo in Tulsa (a regional 5000 participant con) when I ran a two-parter PFS scenario.
(b) there is some open question about timing in using an AP rather than a "tried and true" PFS scenario that fits the theme, can be replicated by multiple GMs, and gives you a wide range of tiers to play with.
(c) without knowing how many slots or GMs you have, there's not much indication that you have enough people compared to capacity (again, a failing of mine at Tokyo in Tulsa.. I only had 3 GMs * 3 slots * 6 players * 3 days = 162 people.. that's 162/5000 or roughly 3.23%)
My suggestions would be if I could do it again:
(i) I would make sure I did themed scenarios that were one-off so that I don't have people forced to pick between a panel and Pathfinder
(ii) I would run more exclusive stuff (like Day of the Demon!) that gave people a reason to pick between a panel and Pathfinder
(iii) I would run for STAFF at the cons and let people watch (like that celebrity Robot Chicken <other game system> game with Chris Perkins and offer signups for "townies" who would be around after the con at my local game store
(iv) I would pick one scenario a day and run it to death.. 6 GMs? Everybody is running that one. That way, the same guy isn't camped out at the table all day.
It's like trick-or-treating with children -- I'd rather give every kid that shows up /something/ than the first ten kids get a full size candy bar. (That way, nobody eggs my house).
Likewise, /everybody/ that paid $45 should get at least /some/ dice time and that can be accomplished by running easy, straightforward scenarios and running the SAME scenario MULTIPLE times.
(Bonus: "I played that Pathfinder thing and it was awesome! You should totally play it!" in the hallways. Everybody loves watching their buddy get killed by the trap they did.. "I went down the well" is a rite of passage elsewhere..)
Ashton Green |
Thanks for all the advice. We've got a few months to plan this, and as I get new information, I'll be adding it to this thread.
At least some of the folks from Standard Action are local to Vancouver, I'll see if I can approach them for something similar to what they did at Gotta Con, which was an extremely entertaining live session of We Be Goblins.
I'd like the hero lab there, because I think creating a character in Hero Lab and then emailing it a volunteer who's able to print it in the hotel's business center and bring it over, or having a printer there, helps people feel more connected with their potential characters.
Actually... I wonder if any of the GoH are PF/RPG fans. That might be interesting.
Personally, I'd like to be over-prepared on GMs than under-prepared. If I've got GMs who're ready to run things if we get players and we don't get players so they end up hanging out and playing board games, I'll be happy about that.
rknop |
One advantage of having GMs who are all planning on running different (rather than the same) things is that if there are too many GMs, you can merge a couple of tables and let the would-have-been GM play in another GM's game.
I would probably show up with a whole bunch of pre-made first-level characters to pass off to newbies (together with temporary PFS ID cards). (That's what I did with the game I'm running at my Unversity; I had one for each core class, and still have a handful left over. I sort of enjoy making characters, so it was kind of fun to spend a few hours making them.)