In converting 2 of my PCs from 3.5 to PF, I've come to the following questions I'd like your input on:
1.) My ranger 7/fighter 6 PC has attack bonuses of +13/+3. In 3.5 he had +13/+8/+3. Question: what happened to his 3rd attack when he was converted?
2.) This same PC also had magic armor with the Silent Moves special ability in 3.5 (granted a bonus to the Move Silently skill). Question: Since this ability and skill don't exist in PF, do I pick a new ability for the armor?
3.) My fighter 12 PC initially took a level of barbarian when he leveled to 13 in 3.5, but I never actually played him after he leveled. Question: Should I carry this over to PF, or should I go with a 13th level of fighter?
1. It should still be +13/+8/+3
2. Ask your GM if he wants to convert the ability (to a bonus to Stealth) or just let you swap it out for something else
3. Ask your GM
DrDeth, Raise an army of undead minions, black.
1. As Ben sez
2. Swap it.
3. Ftr.
Better yet- ask if you can go Ranger 13.
Thanks Ben & Dr. Here are some further thoughts:
I don't have a GM for these PCs; I'm basically doing this for kicks and giggles. So is it fair to take some reasonable liberties with my conversions?
Also, my ranger/fighter's armor also had the shadow ability, which is carried over into PF and gives a Stealth bonus. So that's why I don't know what to do with the 2nd ability.
The only reason my ranger/fighter has levels in fighter is because he started in 3.0 as a ranger, then got his hit points nerfed when 3.5 came out, so I gave him levels of fighter simply to get his hp up. I've thought about just going straight ranger 13 in PF. Could this be one of those "reasonable liberties"?
Finally, is the 13/8/3 attack bonus because of total PC level? I was just adding the 6/1 from fighter and 7/2 from ranger. Not sure if I was doing that correctly. I saw a table in 3.5 that had BAB by character level and "type" of BAB, but didn't see a similar table in the CRB.
1. What is your name?
2. What is your quest?
3. What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
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Lamontius wrote: 1. What is your name?
2. What is your quest?
3. What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
I seek the Holy Grail.
African, or European?
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Revix Belstrann II wrote: Lamontius wrote: 1. What is your name?
2. What is your quest?
3. What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?
I am Arthur, King of the Britons.
I seek the Holy Grail.
African, or European? Huh? I... I don't know that.
...!
AUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Revix Belstrann II wrote: Thanks Ben & Dr. Here are some further thoughts:
I don't have a GM for these PCs; I'm basically doing this for kicks and giggles. So is it fair to take some reasonable liberties with my conversions?
Also, my ranger/fighter's armor also had the shadow ability, which is carried over into PF and gives a Stealth bonus. So that's why I don't know what to do with the 2nd ability.
The only reason my ranger/fighter has levels in fighter is because he started in 3.0 as a ranger, then got his hit points nerfed when 3.5 came out, so I gave him levels of fighter simply to get his hp up. I've thought about just going straight ranger 13 in PF. Could this be one of those "reasonable liberties"?
Finally, is the 13/8/3 attack bonus because of total PC level? I was just adding the 6/1 from fighter and 7/2 from ranger. Not sure if I was doing that correctly. I saw a table in 3.5 that had BAB by character level and "type" of BAB, but didn't see a similar table in the CRB.
Sure.
Full bab classes just continue. But in any case, a bab of 13 gets iterative atks of 8 and 3.
Very reasonable.
Thanks for your input, DrDeth. Is there somewhere specific in the CRB you could point me to that deals with BAB and multiclassing? I've found a couple places where each topic is addressed separately, but can't seem to find anything that deals with them both together.
Here's what I've found:
1.) "Base Attack Bonus (BAB): Each creature has a base attack bonus and it represents its skill in combat. As a character gains levels or Hit Dice, his base attack bonus improves. When a creature's base attack bonus reaches +6, +11, or +16, he receives an additional attack in combat when he takes a full-attack action."
2.) "Instead of gaining the abilities granted by the next level in your character's current class, he can instead gain the 1st-level abilities of a new class, adding all of those abilities to his existing ones. This is known as 'multiclassing.' For example, let's say a 5th-level fighter decides to dabble in the arcane arts, and adds one level of wizard when he advances to 6th level. Such a character would have the powers and abilities of both a 5th-level fighter and a 1st-level wizard, but would still be considered a 6th-level character. (His class levels would be 5th and 1st, but his total character level is 6th.) He keeps all of his bonus feats gained from 5 levels of fighter, but can now also cast 1st-level spells and picks an arcane school. He adds all of the hit points, base attack bonuses, and saving throw bonuses from a 1st-level wizard on top of those gained from being a 5th-level fighter. Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class."
The first quote seems to point to the 13/8/3 attack bonus. However, the second quote seems to indicate that I should add the ranger 7 and fighter 6 attack bonuses together, which is how I came to 13/3 without the 8. Neither of these quotes addresses the situation clearly, in my opinion.
What are your thoughts (or anyone else's thoughts)?
Revix Belstrann II wrote:
The first quote seems to point to the 13/8/3 attack bonus. However, the second quote seems to indicate that I should add the ranger 7 and fighter 6 attack bonuses together, which is how I came to 13/3 without the 8. Neither of these quotes addresses the situation clearly, in my opinion.
What are your thoughts (or anyone else's thoughts)?
There is no "+6/+1", there is only +6 with a reminder.
Thanks for your response, Pupsocket, though I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.
The +6/+1 I'm referring to are the attack bonuses for a level 6 fighter, and the +7/+2 are the bonuses for a level 7 ranger. I added them together to get +13/+3 for my PC, but that didn't seem right to me.
Perhaps you could say more about what you mean?
You don't add the iterative/. The iterative is calculated from the BAB. Add just the BAB and calculate the iterative attacks from there.
You new BAB is 13. Thus the iterative atks are 8 & 3.
The numbers on the charts are just there so you dont have to do the math. You never ADD the iterative atk numbers, just the base BAB.
DrDeth wrote: You don't add the iterative/. The iterative is calculated from the BAB. Add just the BAB and calculate the iterative attacks from there.
You new BAB is 13. Thus the iterative atks are 8 & 3.
The numbers on the charts are just there so you dont have to do the math. You never ADD the iterative atk numbers, just the base BAB.
Thanks again! I completely understand the reasoning, and I can see that now in the BAB definition I posted earlier. I just wish it was stated more clearly in the CRB, like Table 3-1 in the 3.5 PHB.
Perhaps they considered that each and every class entry shows the progression - exactly as that 3.5 chart did) to be enough clarification to the rule as it was written. If I recall, you're having to figure out the same math looking at that 3.5 chart, as you do any class chart in Pathfinder. Look at any entry (barbarian, fighter, etc., and you'll see it at work exactly like that 3.5 chart).
The assumption that it somehow changed seems like extra work.
Bruunwald wrote: Perhaps they considered that each and every class entry shows the progression - exactly as that 3.5 chart did) to be enough clarification to the rule as it was written. If I recall, you're having to figure out the same math looking at that 3.5 chart, as you do any class chart in Pathfinder. Look at any entry (barbarian, fighter, etc., and you'll see it at work exactly like that 3.5 chart).
The assumption that it somehow changed seems like extra work.
Thanks for your response, Bruunwald!
The individual class charts are pretty much identical between 3.5 and PF. However, the class chapter in 3.5 has an additional table at the beginning that shows total character level, and then what the base save and base attack bonuses are for good, average, and poor progressions. PF doesn't have that additional table in its CRB, which is where my confusion stems from. If the CRB included that table, I don't think I would have been confused.
Your comment about the game designers considering the similarities between the 2 systems to be enough clarification confirms a suspicion that I had - namely, that there was an assumption that people would understand the attack progressions would work the same way between the systems. I picked up on this because I've played 3.5 before, but my concern is for people who come to PF not having a 3.5 background. I think it's confusing and could have been presented a little more clearly. But then, maybe that's what the messageboards are for. :)
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