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While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
Take a character that is TWF and uses his off-hand for an unarmed strike, eg:
Full Attack Action consists of a longsword(MH)/unarmed strike(OH).
Does she get the full 1.5x strength bonus on her first unarmed strike, even though it is in her off hand?
if you are a monk there is no off hand.
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if you are a monk there is no off hand.
In this case, the scenario is for an unarmed fighter archetype. (That may end up with levels of a Monk archetype that does not get Flurry of Blows.)
Now, add Double Slice for more confusion.
I am assuming that Dragon Style overrides Double Slice for the first attack (but only the first attack). Double Slice would kick in to boost iteratives, or if you are using MH/OH unarmed/unarmed.
Even though it is worded under the monk section, i believe it applies to all unarmed combat in general. There is no off hand attacks with unarmed, even if fighting two handed. therefore feats like double slice and two weapon rend do not apply.
so when using dragon ferocity you get the 1.5str to all attacks.
if you want the rend action, you will have to take tiger claws.
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There is no off hand attacks with unarmed
It's been clarified a few times that you can use unarmed strikes with two weapon fighting. It's a weapon that exists when you happen to be wielding no weapon in your hand :D
If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light.
Unarmed Strike: Can I use two-weapon fighting to make two unarmed strikes in one round?
Yes.
Even though it is worded under the monk section, i believe it applies to all unarmed combat in general. There is no off hand attacks with unarmed, even if fighting two handed.
There is no off hand for a monk who FoBs...
IUS is a feat available to any character which allows better use of unarmed strikes, a weapon which is not the sole domain of monks.
Using TWF and unarmed strikes follows the normal rules, FoB makes an exception to the normal rules for monks.
That being said, 1.5 for first unarmed strike and .5 for off hand should both be figured in RAW as no exceptions are stated.
i see no one actually read what i wrote. ok let's try agian, prehaps you will read it this time, maybe you won't but here goes Of course you can two weapon fight with unarmed combat. You don't need double slice because your extra attacks are not considered off hand attacks. Of course you get the bonus to all your attacks with dragon style when you use unarmed attacks and fighting with TWF. if you want the rend capability, i think you would have to use tiger claws as opposed to two weapon rend.
Even though the rules are in the monk section, i think apply to unarmed combat in general.
It'd ridiculous to compound 1.5x bonus with 0.5x bonus and net 0.75x bonus because multipliers don't compound that way in pathfinder. If you're going to do that, it would be 1.5x + (1 - 0.5)x = 1x; full strength bonus on the attack. But I don't think it'd work that way either because the off-hand bonus is half your strength bonus; not your full strength bonus then cut in half because it's off-hand. For example, if you were to TWF with a greatsword and a boot blade, the boot blade would get 1x str but the greatsword would only get 0.5x strength because it's an off-hand attack. Not half of the 1.5x damage a greatsword usually gets because off-hand attacks are, by default, always 0.5x str damage.
RAW is sometimes ridiculous... The abilities tell you what to do, and there are no exceptions stated. In a situation where a non monk/non FoB is using US as an off hand attack during TWF, the first US attack is getting .75 str mod RAW.
i see no one actually read what i wrote. ok let's try agian, prehaps you will read it this time, maybe you won't but here goes Of course you can two weapon fight with unarmed combat. You don't need double slice because your extra attacks are not considered off hand attacks. Of course you get the bonus to all your attacks with dragon style when you use unarmed attacks and fighting with TWF. if you want the rend capability, i think you would have to use tiger claws as opposed to two weapon rend.
Even though the rules are in the monk section, i think apply to unarmed combat in general.
We're reading it, and politely ignoring your unsupported opinion on how two clearly documented rule sets (TWF and FoB) work in a discussion in the Rules Forum.
We're reading it, and politely ignoring your unsupported opinion on how two clearly documented rule sets (TWF and FoB) work in a discussion in the Rules Forum.i see no one actually read what i wrote. ok let's try agian, prehaps you will read it this time, maybe you won't but here goes Of course you can two weapon fight with unarmed combat. You don't need double slice because your extra attacks are not considered off hand attacks. Of course you get the bonus to all your attacks with dragon style when you use unarmed attacks and fighting with TWF. if you want the rend capability, i think you would have to use tiger claws as opposed to two weapon rend.
Even though the rules are in the monk section, i think apply to unarmed combat in general.
it's called an inference and it is based on the evidence, the rules.
firstly, in the monk section on unarmed strike, the ONLY difference listed as between a monk fighting unarmed and a normal person, is the increase damage sized, that is the only time a difference is giving between a monk and normal person
secondly, the paragraph is led by the fact that monks are considered to have the improved unarmed feat- which does everything in the monk rules saves for increasing damage dice.
Thirdly the rule does not require the monk to be flurry to get bonus, NO WHERE does it STATE at anytime that flurrying is requred.
fourthly, Unarmed strikes are an exception to TWF, unarmed strikes in all other parts and all other rules are considered a single weapon. you therefore cannot have an off hand attack with a single weapon. applying the sames rules is as feats regarding twf is irrational because you have to assume rules for which it is an exception, which defeats the purpose being an exception.
fifthly, the FAQ states that two weapon fighting can just thought of in terms of taking extra attacks. the normal perqusite of such an action is that you are wielding two weapon, unarmed strikes an exception.
to use the regular twf fighting rules is silly, espically when there are unarmed combat feats that mimic the same function dragon ferocity and and tiger claws.
treating unarmed fighting as twf normally when it is an exception makes no sense.
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I now see what you mean when discussing the Unarmed Strike as an off-hand attack.
I believe it was first questioned about a Non-Monk using a Longsword main-hand, and an Unarmed Strike off-hand, whilst using Dragon Style.
In this case, there is no doubt the Unarmed Strike is an off-hand attack.
Now, in the case of a Non-Monk two-weapon fighting with Unarmed Strikes only, there is no doubt how Dragon Style works, as the first Unarmed Strike is a main-hand weapon.
Now, the idea of not needing Double Slice whilst two-weapon fighting to gain full strength to both main and off-hand attack is interesting.
Since no non-double weapon can be both a main-hand and off-hand weapon, there is no other situation like this.
For that, I will need more research.
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In fact is more than full str, it is 1.5 str since you can two hand the long sword and then make the unarmed strike.
Now, the idea of not needing Double Slice whilst two-weapon fighting to gain full strength to both main and off-hand attack is interesting.
That was in reference to the idea that when two-weapon with Unarmed Strikes only, you get full strength to damage with both.