You lose the Rage rounds gained at first level, since it's 4+Con then.
Effectively, you'd have only gotten 2 Rage rounds at first if you'd started then, so you lose an equivalent amount to make that true.
So if you started with 16 Con and had 7 rounds at first, you'd lose 5 total.
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Now for the bigger question, "How did you end up with a Barbarian with a 6-7 Con?"
It's a long story, filled with lots of RP, but essentially, my character was revived from an alchemist at an early level, and I knew she was going to become an undead, so I dumped con in favor of charisma because I had the opportunity, so she could still be effective (my dm ruled I could use CHA and it would be affected by my rage). A few sessions later, she multiclassed into barbarian, as it made sense for her character, and had some fun exploiting the rage cycling, but she was later torn from her mortal body and imprisoned. When she came out, she was a regular living human again, as well as having her connection to her deity severed (she was an inquisitor of urgathoa). It was a fun session (and no, this didn't happen just because my character began to get a smidgen overpowered in later levels).
Thanks for the help!
A barbarians con only effects the number of rage rounds once, at character creation. So if this is a character created with -7 con he would have 2 rage rounds (4-2). Even if he later gained additional con he would not get bonus rage rounds. Do note that there is no mention of positive con score, just con score so if you had a negitave you wood get less rounds.
Imagine an elf with 7 con ;) that would be a chalenge!
After rereading the rage ability and Ryinjins post I wonder if I am wrong on the con only effects rage once part... your guys thots?
Its interesting to note that because Rage gives you morale bonuses and the rulebook states that morale bonuses are mind-affecting, and since undead are immune to mind affecting abilities, someone can' have an Undead rage.
Its silly because it kind of invalidates the Vampire Barbarian.
Huh.
I didn't know this. I was gonna point out there was a Construct Barbarian in a certain AP, but looking at him he's actually got a special trait that makes him susceptible to mind-affecting effects so the point is moot.
After rereading the rage ability and Ryinjins post I wonder if I am wrong on the con only effects rage once part... your guys thots?
It's 4+Con +2/level. Everything related to ability scores (especially Con and Int) is retroactive in Pathfinder. So if his Con went up (barring from using Rage itself) I believe he'd get more Rage rounds, just as he gets less when he loses Con.
Its interesting to note that because Rage gives you morale bonuses and the rulebook states that morale bonuses are mind-affecting, and since undead are immune to mind affecting abilities, someone can' have an Undead rage.
Its silly because it kind of invalidates the Vampire Barbarian.
Do note that an undead could still rage and would still gain the -2 AC as that is an extrordinary power, not a moral bonus. You would not benifit from the increased con/str or things like superstition but you would be able to benefit from beast totem and the like. So it can work!
Thanks Rynjin! I think I saw the part pretaining to temporary bonuses and thought it ment all bonuses. Learned something new.
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Do note that an undead could still rage and would still gain the -2 AC as that is an extrordinary power, not a moral bonus. You would not benifit from the increased con/str or things like superstition but you would be able to benefit from beast totem and the like. So it can work!Its interesting to note that because Rage gives you morale bonuses and the rulebook states that morale bonuses are mind-affecting, and since undead are immune to mind affecting abilities, someone can' have an Undead rage.
Its silly because it kind of invalidates the Vampire Barbarian.
True enough, true enough. They would get the -2 to AC and any rage powers as long as those rage powers weren't typed as morale. I think it'd be kind of silly though as there would be few if any benefits from it but YMMV.
Come and Get Me is not "few if any benefit" ;-)
In 3E, rage was an untyped bonus.
It was nerfed in PF for reasons that elude me.
And yeah, it says 4 + Con modifier. It should probably be "Con bonus," having less than 4 round of rage at 1st level is pretty silly.
Ya beast totem pounce, come and get me, spell sunder, strength surge and intimidating display off the top of my head count as "few if any benefit"? ;)
@Streamofthesky. Think of an elf with 5 con and a flawed mossy disk (if he could afford one). He would only be able to rage 0 times a day! He would also only have d12 -4 hps (average 3) D:
Don't sneeze you might pop a blood vessel and that could be deadly!
When you use furious finish, you are fatigued (even if you would not normally be). When you fatigued, you can´t rage again - so how you get in a "rage cycling meat grinder" for 10 rounds?
By the way: Can a character which is immune to fatigued* get fatigued through furious finish?
*For example the horizont walker with Terrain mastery (dessert)
Effectively no. You become fatigued... but are still immune to fatigue.
To rule otherwise would mean an undead or construct barbarian w/ furious finish would somehow become fatigued, which is clearly not how it would work.
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Its interesting to note that because Rage gives you morale bonuses and the rulebook states that morale bonuses are mind-affecting, and since undead are immune to mind affecting abilities, someone can' have an Undead rage.
Its silly because it kind of invalidates the Vampire Barbarian.
In which page does it state that ? I could not find it.
Undead Traits (Ex) Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undead are not subject to ability drain, energy drain, or nonlethal damage. Undead are immune to damage or penalties to their physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. Undead are not at risk of death from massive damage.
Universal Monster Rules in the back of the bestiaries.
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Undead Traits (Ex) Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undead are not subject to ability drain, energy drain, or nonlethal damage. Undead are immune to damage or penalties to their physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. Undead are not at risk of death from massive damage.Universal Monster Rules in the back of the bestiaries.
But Rage is not a morale effect (it is not mind-affecting).
Is the morale bonus a morale effect in addition to being a specific type of bonus (so that 2 morale bonuses do not stack) ?
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A morale bonus is a morale effect, just as a morale penalty would be if I could find one listed that way in the rules. The only specific reference to a morale effect other than in the boilerplate above is Heroic Echo.
At 3rd level, when you receive a morale bonus from any spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, including those you cast on yourself, that bonus increases by +1. At 9th level, this ability also applies to competence bonuses. If you receive a morale effect (or a competence effect at 9th level) that affects an area or multiple targets, as an immediate action you can share your increased bonus with all other recipients. This increase to other participants lasts a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus. You can use this ability once per day, plus one time per three levels after 3rd.
So anytime you get a morale bonus, it's a morale effect by my reading.
For instance, Inspire Courage gives a morale bonus to saving throws and competence bonus to attack and damage. It's listed as mind-affecting. Inspire Competence only gives a competence bonus to skill checks. It's not mind-affecting. So, a bard can inspire competence in undead, constructs, plants, oozes, and vermin but can't inspire courage in them.
Also, here's a quote from James Jacobs not from the Ask James Jacobs off-topic thread confirming that Rage's morale bonuses are morale effects so undead can't benefit from them (although he doesn't have a problem with a DM ruling otherwise).
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A morale bonus is a morale effect, just as a morale penalty would be if I could find one listed that way in the rules. The only specific reference to a morale effect other than in the boilerplate above is Heroic Echo.
At 3rd level, when you receive a morale bonus from any spell, spell-like ability, or magic item, including those you cast on yourself, that bonus increases by +1. At 9th level, this ability also applies to competence bonuses. If you receive a morale effect (or a competence effect at 9th level) that affects an area or multiple targets, as an immediate action you can share your increased bonus with all other recipients. This increase to other participants lasts a number of rounds equal to your Charisma bonus. You can use this ability once per day, plus one time per three levels after 3rd.So anytime you get a morale bonus, it's a morale effect by my reading.
For instance, Inspire Courage gives a morale bonus to saving throws and competence bonus to attack and damage. It's listed as mind-affecting. Inspire Competence only gives a competence bonus to skill checks. It's not mind-affecting. So, a bard can inspire competence in undead, constructs, plants, oozes, and vermin but can't inspire courage in them.
Also, here's a quote from James Jacobs not from the Ask James Jacobs off-topic thread confirming that Rage's morale bonuses are morale effects so undead can't benefit from them (although he doesn't have a problem with a DM ruling otherwise).
Thank you, Joana. The bit about there being "competence effects" was what nailed it for me :-)