RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I have yet to play in a game, PFS or otherwise, where spell components (other than a divine focus) had any impact on the game. Where and how have GM's used this mechanic to add depth to the game in PFS?
Can you be a little more specific?
I do recall a certain scenario with a caster BBEG (or more like SBEW) where the GM forgot that sorcerers get Eschew Materials. I successfully used pilfering hand to yank the spell component pouch off of her from across the room. The GM was going to just call the fight at that point, until we realized the error (there was no pouch to grab).
Is that what you mean?
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I'm mean in or out of combat. Other than players listing them on their character sheets, I've not seen GM's ever really focus on them. Sure, I imagine there scenarios where players are stripped of possessions, but these are not common.
Still not sure what you're getting at. Is there a rule that you're thinking isn't getting enforced or something?
|
The only stipulation on spell components is that if it cost more than 25gp, you have to actually have purchased it, and have a "dose" of it on your character sheet.
The rules for purchasing said spell components is dependent on how big of a town you are in. Basically it follows the rules for purchasing anything else except most if not all spell components would be considered always available.
Otherwise, a GM doesn't need to hinder a spell caster anymore than various rules already do (see grapple rules for an example).
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
I have yet to play in a game, PFS or otherwise, where spell components (other than a divine focus) had any impact on the game. Where and how have GM's used this mechanic to add depth to the game in PFS?Can you be a little more specific?
I do recall a certain scenario with a caster BBEG (or more like SBEW) where the GM forgot that sorcerers get Eschew Materials. I successfully used pilfering hand to yank the spell component pouch off of her from across the room. The GM was going to just call the fight at that point, until we realized the error (there was no pouch to grab).
Is that what you mean?
Rey actually carries a spell component pouch on him for a 'sunder me please!' moment. Ksenia carries two in case of emergency.*
*
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
No, it's not about a rule enforcement, it's about leveraging a mechanic to improve the game. I'm looking for advice on how to use the fact that there are spell components to make the game more interesting/enjoyable.
Assuming you don't need to look them up all the time and it doesn't slow down games, it can make spellcraft a bit more 'fluffy'.
(Successful spellcraft check) "You recongize from the gesture, that the pellet he's manipulating is sulfer and guano, and realize it's a fireball"
It can also be used to get details about NPCs you might not be able to convey in a story.
Minor Frozen Fingers of Midnight spoiler
I freaked out players fighting an aberrant sorcerer describing her magic missles as eyeless snakes that shot out of her fingertips and bit them before fading from view; or when Ksenia uses her slumber hex I will say (loosely spelled) Spats na paloo! (Russan for "(you) sleep on (the) floor!")
To use a media example, Amy's (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer) "Goddess Hecatae, make the unclean things... CRAWL!" was basically baleful polymorph, but it told you her magic had at least some Greek roots.
|
|
As a player, learn what the spell components are for every spell you cast.
Then roleplay using them.
I swiftly yank my hand from my pouch, screaming epithets, "Stupid Spider!" reach back in, pull out the large harry creature, eat it, then crawl up the wall. I smile down at the badguy as I suck the last leg between my lips and crunch for good measure.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
On a more practical level, I sometimes GM for a necromancer who I require to pay the gem cost for creating undead.
Practical? That's just the rules. Although blood money has almost thrown too good of a bone to arcane necromancers everywhere.
I run a Sound Striker Bard, and I have used their Wordstrike power to burst and explode Spell Component pouches or wooden holy symbols. It is especially mean, since it deals 1d4+10 damage to it, no save, no attack roll. Just POOF, goodbye spell component pouch. I don't do it often, as it can shut down a caster flat.
|
I run a Sound Striker Bard, and I have used their Wordstrike power to burst and explode Spell Component pouches or wooden holy symbols. It is especially mean, since it deals 1d4+10 damage to it, no save, no attack roll. Just POOF, goodbye spell component pouch. I don't do it often, as it can shut down a caster flat.
I love this! I can't believe I didn't think of this before.
|
I run a Sound Striker Bard, and I have used their Wordstrike power to burst and explode Spell Component pouches or wooden holy symbols. It is especially mean, since it deals 1d4+10 damage to it, no save, no attack roll. Just POOF, goodbye spell component pouch. I don't do it often, as it can shut down a caster flat.
And this is why I carry three spell component pouches.
To the OP though - it's been stated before that the inconsequential material components were turned into the "spell component pouch" because managing and maintaining those components is a pain in the behind and decidedly un-fun. So while I appreciate the desire to interject those kinds of moments into the game, nothing screams "screw over the mage and ruin his fun that game day" like sundering their spellpouch.
|
Rey actually carries a spell component pouch on him for a 'sunder me please!' moment.Exactly, right? I'll have put that in my bag of GM tactics to save newbie spell casters.
Which makes me think I'll start carrying a fake bag of spell components. Wonder if I'd have to roll a bluff to make someone think I was using it?
No reason to need a bluff for that, just actually use it. Having the Eschew Materials feat doesn't require you to use it. You are still able to use normal physical spell components.
|
|
I'd like to see a scenario where the PCs are stripped of their spell components somehow, and have to figure out what spells they can still cast with the materials they can scrounge from the immediate area.yep, that ones right up there with the scenarios where all the PC's weapons & armor & tool kits are taken away and we get to see what they can scrounge from the immediate area. We used to call those types of games "Peasents with sticks" (Clubs and quarterstaffs).
There's at least one scenario that leaves you with no magic for part of it. Playing a primary spellcaster in that scenario was... less than fun.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, West Virginia—Charleston
|
On a more practical level, I sometimes GM for a necromancer who I require to pay the gem cost for creating undead.Practical? That's just the rules. Although blood money has almost thrown too good of a bone to arcane necromancers everywhere.
I run a Sound Striker Bard, and I have used their Wordstrike power to burst and explode Spell Component pouches or wooden holy symbols. It is especially mean, since it deals 1d4+10 damage to it, no save, no attack roll. Just POOF, goodbye spell component pouch. I don't do it often, as it can shut down a caster flat.
Oh, obviously, I said practical because I was turning the discussion away from RP to rules - it seemed to me like the OP was more interested in them.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to see a scenario where the PCs are stripped of their spell components somehow, and have to figure out what spells they can still cast with the materials they can scrounge from the immediate area.
Fighter: "Why is the druid wasting time in bat form?
Mage: "We're going to need to fireball the guards
Fighter ".. how does that even follow?
Mage "You're better off not knowing. "
|
|
I'd like to see a scenario where the PCs are stripped of their spell components somehow, and have to figure out what spells they can still cast with the materials they can scrounge from the immediate area.
I'm currently running a group through
I find this type of adventure very interesting, as it forces players (and GMs) to think outside the box.
|
|
I think outside of PFS this is a standard situation, where players way too often find themselves in, getting there by mysterious circumstances if not plain GM fiat.
A wizard and other casters needing materials should always account for them and be ready to show the account to the GM. Which means you set gold aside for the spells you want to cast and their materials, which you also need to plan ahead because you need to be able to buy that stuff. Many spell components you can´t just find in a village.
If you play this right, magic is much harder to do and not the theoretical worlddomination you find in the advice boards often.
Because druids can´t shift into something that procudes diamonds or diamond dust. Perhaps if they have form of the dragon you can scrape of some scurf.
|
Oh, obviously, I said practical because I was turning the discussion away from RP to rules - it seemed to me like the OP was more interested in them.And yet I said this before your post:
No, it's not about a rule enforcement, it's about leveraging a mechanic to improve the game. I'm looking for advice on how to use the fact that there are spell components to make the game more interesting/enjoyable.So I don't know if you're intending to be inflammatory or your just ignoring what doesn't fit the box you're trying to put me in.
It's probably because you brought up PFS cheating in your introductory sentence.
|
There's at least one scenario that leaves you with no magic for part of it. Playing a primary spellcaster in that scenario was... less than fun.I'd like to see a scenario where the PCs are stripped of their spell components somehow, and have to figure out what spells they can still cast with the materials they can scrounge from the immediate area.yep, that ones right up there with the scenarios where all the PC's weapons & armor & tool kits are taken away and we get to see what they can scrounge from the immediate area. We used to call those types of games "Peasents with sticks" (Clubs and quarterstaffs).
Yup... and there is another one where exactly what RDN asks can happen.
|
|
No, it's not about a rule enforcement, it's about leveraging a mechanic to improve the game. I'm looking for advice on how to use the fact that there are spell components to make the game more interesting/enjoyable.
In PSF, spell components are usually nothing more than a required line entry on the casters character sheet.
If you want to add flavor by stressing the usage of specific components to cast your spells, you are free to do so. It has been a long time since I have seen a wizard stress the fact that they are throwing a ball of bat guano and sulfur or are eating a live spider.
|
|
One thing that annoys me is that, by the rules, you can readily have all the materials you need to bend the fabric of reality to your very whim in an easily-replenished 5 gp spell component pouch, but if you want to do something crazy like fight with a bow, then by gods you'd better be tediously keeping track of every single arrow and rolling a percentage chance to see if they break after you use them.
|
|
One thing that annoys me is that, by the rules, you can readily have all the materials you need to bend the fabric of reality to your very whim in an easily-replenished 5 gp spell component pouch, but if you want to do something crazy like fight with a bow, then by gods you'd better be tediously keeping track of every single arrow and rolling a percentage chance to see if they break after you use them.
If material components were just something like universal pixie dust, I'd get your point. Tracking arrows is comparatively trivial..a single set of hash marks, and which tends to scale with level; higher level ranged characters have quivers that start to resemble the ammunition options in an Abrams tank.
The components situation has a bad reputation for multiple reasons. The component system in early D&D days stems out of 1970's era sympathetic magic ideas in the real world, purportedly. It was seen as one of the icky occult connections between D&D and the occult and led to the wacko, "players learn how to actually use magic" claims. It is one of the most egregious contributors to Aardvarks & Accountants style of play. It doesn't scale with play. The primary character type that needs one is the oh-so-intelligent wizard, yet he ends up playing the role of a Shakespearean Richard the III, bemoaning the lack of a bit of bat guano to save his kingdom.
Every gamer lies on a continuum between simulation vs. ease-of-play. We like a certain amount of concrete representation, and we're willing to take on a degree of abstraction in order to make play more enjoyable. Component pouches, as you've eluded to, aren't completely in-line with other aspects of the game on this continuum. But, it's something where the out-of-game record keeping, were components to be tracked in detail, is out of line with the in-game enjoyment.
The game generally tends to be more gritty regarding things that have real-world counterparts, i.e. arrows, and more abstract about magical effects. To use your phrase, a high level wizard can bend the fabric of reality, but given that theme, how important is it that he already used his last ball of bat poop?