Fallout 1 & 2 > planescape (& arcanum: of steamworks and magick obscura) *spoilers*


Gamer Life General Discussion


I've finished up fallout 1 & 2 ages ago and I remember that I absolutely HATED the interface for fallout 1. I remember playing games like dark stone and diablo 1 first and finding the interface for the first to be horrifically clunky (hard to spot things on the ground, no take all option....ESPECIALLY the no take all option). Why did I continue even though the system was so clunky AND it used some strange action point system? I'm a sap for awesome stories and I'd heard for a while that the first two fallout games offered that. I also remember I loved the innovation (that still no other game seems to offer) that allowed you to target specific body parts AND that each weapon could be set to either fire or be used in a different manner.

In fallout 2, I remember I loved the story but the side quests were ALSO fascinating. This was probably the first game I'd played outside of revenant (I think you could do this in revenant, not exactly sure though) where you could kill the NPCs (arcanum also brought that feature to the table). I remember doing funny things in this game such as joining a competition to eat strange fries and to see how many I could eat (only to find out what they were made from) and to also become a star in....um...a certain kind of movie. The story was grand and came to one of the most awesome and memorable boss fights ever. It wasn't just that the story was amazing, the SIDE QUESTS were amazing. The weapons were also pretty cool, though admittedly I tended more towards ordinary guns than the special laser ones. I remember having so much fun (I think you could do this in both games) blowing the doors off their hinges when enemies were hiding behind them. For an old game, there was so much interactivity with the world.

Fallout 1? Exciting....not as much as 2 but still grand. The story was amazing, the side quests were...not memorable but I think they were probably good...this is the one that parodied scientology (didn't know it was a parody and hadn't even heard of scientology at the time) right?

Seeing the HUD that came up during dialogue and seeing a special rendering of the creature/person up close was also great (probably more out of innovation than anything else, but I think it's still awesome and HAS aged well), as well as the awesome voice acting. The world also looked beautiful and haunting (fallout 3 doesn't quite have that haunting feel to it). The interface is the only thing holding fallout 1 back in my opinion, fallout 2 corrected much of that.

Planescape? Don't get me wrong, I liked the game (haven't finished it yet), the huge amount of info and story telling is what makes it so good. Why don't I like it as much? I went in expecting to travel the planes and instead I got a romp through primarily sigil (which while fun, is not the awesomeness it makes itself out to be). City of doors? Sure, when there's a small sidequest or story reason for there to be one, no chance of accidentally walking through a portal and finding yourself in a strange and mysterious location. No wait, that's not completely true, I found a modron cube that took me to a somewhat cool location, not another plane exactly, more like a demi-plane. Finding out about the modrons and mechanus was fun, but the demi-plane quickly got on my nerves when I kept getting lost with no in-game map or mapping tool to help (I ended up using excel), while this would usually present a fun maze or puzzle, every room was filled with the same combat scenarios over and over and over again.

The morgue was obviously a product of love (I'm not kidding, it may be a dark and horrifying place, but it was still a wonder to behold), every zombie had their own number and you could even come back to talk to them when you got the ability to speak with the dead. Some had pretty awesome things to say. I could write a whole list of things awesome about the morgue alone. Their obvious (and admirable) desire to put story-telling first allowed you to simply in the middle of dialogue to reach over and subtly snap the necks of people who suspected you without drawing attention to yourself rather than drop unnecessary combat on you.

Sigil stood out because I saw the fiendish walk among bariuars and other strange and exotic races like nothing was up. I saw demons and devils enjoy drinks in a tavern (though not together), was accosted by people who knew a bit of my past but I didn't know who they were, enjoyed chatting with morte and met the nutcase who kept telling me something about doors (I helped her out and got her crazy teeth). Spoke with the awesome githzerai and got (finally) a breakdown of illithid and gith history (through an object's trials that required me to learn from its lessons). I remember going through so many places that seamlessly and beautifully brought the many exotic races together like there was nothing out of the ordinary about doing so (when you meet the medusa, you'll know what I'm talking about). The orbs contained within the sensate's headquarters was a whole other world I felt I could slip into. The city of the dead/drowned temple/empire place thing? Oh don't get me started on just how great and awesome the whole thing was....although admittedly, while I played good mostly, I DID bring the whole place to the ground by starting a civil war there for...I can't remember the reason anymore.

I've reached as far as curst in planescape and I did love the part with the hag, especially with the huge build up over 'what can change the nature of a man', and when given multiple choice, I answered honestly rather than what I thought she wanted to hear and overall I was so pleased with the entire event and the aftermath I got to see through in-game cinematic. I've reached curst and....suddenly I've lost all excitement. Overall, the sidequests have proven exciting but the 'dungeon crawls' section of the game is just such a bore. So many areas that weren't 'decorated', level design is important to me, it brings LIFE into the area, the morgue was the most beautifully and lovingly painted in the entire game, but then you've got areas like the...not sure what it's called, perhaps the first dungeon experience you receive. It's a massive mausoleum, there's an evil wizard at the end (also an interesting villain when you talk to him more and read the stuff he leaves behind), the place was sparsely 'decorated', then there were the many cavern systems they'd done in the game, also the one that led to some prison (ALSO with interesting characters within!).

I wanted to explore every inch of the game because the characters and text was too good to pass up. So much dialogue and info to go through, but the dungeon environments were.....just so lacking.

The side quests offer excellent doses of fun or excitement, but the main quest can get stale after a while UNTIL you get to another 'point' within the storyline, where you learn something amazing and you want to continue.

Overall? While I still haven't finished planescape, it was fallout 1 & 2 that I just couldn't put down. Planescape is all kinds of awesome, ESPECIALLY since it's also fantasy and involves other planes, but I want to VISIT them, not just read about them in the dialogue and text in the game (and the part of hell that I got to see was little worse than a desert with monsters in it). The characters were the life of the game and it saddens me that they each have unique thoughts and things to open up to you with but that you can't have them ALL come with you (hence you end up not finding out everything they have to say). The dungeon crawling experience is annoying, and I don't want to speed run through the whole thing because they tend to have interesting characters or events (like the one with the underground prison).

Arcanum, the world, the whole industrial age plus magic was just so awesome. I remember it was great that you could also break into shops and homes to steal their goods or kill NPCs at night, away from sight and that you wouldn't get caught. The ability to break down doors and windows was also satisfying. The ability to craft so much great stuff from the myriad of 'crap' you found in the game was also pretty great, finding out later that you could LEARN schematics to make more stuff was even more exciting. The spells? For God's sake, you could RESURRECT certain people, STORY npcs no less! What killed this game for me? Not the bugs (that I rarely found), but the fact that the sidequests were more exciting than the main story....seriously, most of the main quest was a snoozefest. The side quests were really great and well thought out, the main story? They had a good idea but it got boring fast and couldn't compete with the side quests.

Sorry for the wall of text, but this is just my...well maybe more than just two cents.


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Planescape is designed to allow you the "grand tour" of the planes when you feel ready for it, allowing you time when you finally get back to Sigil. I know that's kind of spoilery, but it's something I wish I had known when playing. The modron maze is harsh... the entire point of it is that it's a parody of a dungeon, as the modrons see it. I don't have much to say about your criticism of the other dungeons, though. They are kind of flat.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Quote:
Planescape? Don't get me wrong, I liked the game (haven't finished it yet),

Then get back to us when you do. Seriously, you need to see the whole thing to the end before you start passing judgment--true for any game, thrice so for Torment. I can understand parts making you not want to see to the end... but do it. Keep going.

Then let us know what you think. And, you might hate it. But it is absolutely worth seeing.

All the games you discuss are good, and I agree on Arcanum... there's a lot of potential there but much of it fell flat for me personally.


Sissyl wrote:
Planescape is designed to allow you the "grand tour" of the planes when you feel ready for it, allowing you time when you finally get back to Sigil. I know that's kind of spoilery, but it's something I wish I had known when playing.

So do I, that's actually something I wish I'd known earlier as well.

Thanks guys for your tips and info, I will certainly finish planescape torment and I feel that at the end of the day, I CAN'T hate it. So many sections of the game that are worlds unto themselves, the sensate brothel of intellect was fascinating, seeing so many races integrated seamlessly into the game, as well as reading the orbs of the sensates and the strange iron fortress with the (VERY true neutral?) aligned golem inside and hearing what he had to say, the morgue, it's definitely impossible for me to say I hate the game. The memories that TNO received really pull you into a deep story as well.

I was certainly glad to see though that people made (mods?) that fixed up the game and made the screen better fit todays monitors and TVs as well as fixing up glitches and such. I do wish a fix was available for the size of the font, reading up on it though, it doesn't seem possible.

One sad shame is that games of this calibre (fallout 1&2, planescape torment, baldurs gate series, icewind dale) are never gonna be made again, it just seems like companies are trying to churn games out with gimmicks being the main attraction rather than content. Plot design is pretty basic as well.


cmastah wrote:

One sad shame is that games of this calibre (fallout 1&2, planescape torment, baldurs gate series, icewind dale) are never gonna be made again, it just seems like companies are trying to churn games out with gimmicks being the main attraction rather than content. Plot design is pretty basic as well.

Really?

https://torment.inxile-entertainment.com

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com

Brian

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Brian Kovich wrote:
cmastah wrote:

One sad shame is that games of this calibre (fallout 1&2, planescape torment, baldurs gate series, icewind dale) are never gonna be made again, it just seems like companies are trying to churn games out with gimmicks being the main attraction rather than content. Plot design is pretty basic as well.

Really?

https://torment.inxile-entertainment.com

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com

Brian

I'd add Project Eternity to that too: http://eternity.obsidian.net

I'd agree with cmastah even two years ago, but the nice thing about crowdsourcing--as mixed feelings as I have about it--is that now developers are able to create what they like as long as they can get enough of a following for it. Developers who want to develop games like that no longer have to pitch it to a publisher who thinks FPSes, sports games, and RPGs should all work according to the same marketing principles and appeal to the same audience, and won't risk anything "niche."

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