The blade already HAS an alignment.
Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): "A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that matched the subtype(s) of the creature."
The black blade does not have an alignment subtype, therefore it's attacks do not bypass that DR.
Wouldn't that count just like having the AW weapon spell for that alignment cast on it? Since the spell flat out says it cannot be used to alter the existing alignment of a weapon?
Align Weapon: "This spell has no effect on a weapon that already has an alignment."
By RAW, since the blade has an alignment, the align weapon spell would have no effect on a black blade. However, I think the intent of that part of the spell is referring to a weapon that's already "imbued with an alignment," like an Anarchic/Axiomatic/Holy/Unholy weapon.
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The blade already HAS an alignment.Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): "A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that matched the subtype(s) of the creature."
The black blade does not have an alignment subtype, therefore it's attacks do not bypass that DR.
The black blade is not a creature trying to get alignment-based DR penetration with natural or wielded weapons, which occurs explicitly via alignment subtype.
The Align Weapon spell does not grant its DR penetration by giving the weapon an alignment subtype, it grants it by giving it an alignment.
The black blade is a weapon that has an alignment already, and should therefore penetrate DR of matching alignment.
An intelligent item is not a regular object, and is therefore a special case:
The alignment of an intelligent item is a representation of its moral and personal attitudes, the result of it making alignment-based decisions.
But again the Align Weapon spell, simply says alignment, that's it. The the Black Blade HAS an alignment.
Which is why the align weapon spell has no effect on a black blade.
And the align Weapon spell specifically says it can't be used on weapons with an alignment. Meaning it should count as already having the spell on it for it's given alignment.
The align weapon spell also has no effect on a +1 Axiomatic longsword, but that doesn't mean the sword can bypass DR/good.
Being unable to use the align weapon spell doesn't mean the target can bypass whatever DR you wanted the spell to bypass.
I'm not saying it will bypass any DR. Just DR that is bypassed by it's alignment. It is a Chaotic Good aligned weapon.
It's a chaotic good aligned sentient NPC construct creature.
Like a flesh golem.
If you hit someone with an evil flesh golem, that attack isn't going to bypass DR/evil. Because the flesh golem's alignment is that of a creature: "A creature's general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment"
The spell gives it an alignment, that's it, just an alignment, which the sword already has. So why doesn't it count if it has the exact same thing the spell gives it?
The align weapon spell allows the weapon to bypass that kind of DR. If the spell has no effect, then it doesn't allow it to bypass DR.
Not being able to cast align weapon on something does not mean that thing can already bypass DR.
More clearly: The align weapon spell has nothing to do with whether an intelligent item's alignment allows it to bypass DR.
Let's take Bull's Strength. It adds +4 STR to the target. So a thing with a base 16 STR, is now identical to another thing with 20 STR.
Bull's Strength grants a temporary ability score bonus. As such, it gives you a bonus on Strength-based skill checks, melee attack rolls, and weapon damage rolls (if they rely on Strength). The bonus also applies to your Combat Maneuver Bonus (if you are Small or larger) and to your Combat Maneuver Defense.
The bonus is +1 for every two points of increase. So for Bull's Strength, it grants you a +2 to those things mentioned.
While this is really nice for someone who is two-weapon fighting (+2 damage applies to the off-hand) it's may be less useful to someone who is fighting two-handed, since it's limited to +2 damage regardless of your strength score. In both cases, it's not at all the same as actually having 20 strength.
The difference is far more pronounced with something like Intelligence or Charisma, where a permanent bonus grants skill ranks or spells per day and whatnot.
All Align weapon does is take an existing weapon, and add an alignment, which then allows it to bypass DR.
And since it has no effect on a black blade, it's completely irrelevant.
The black blade already has the alignment attached to it the exact same as if it had the spell cast on it and so should function the exact same way.
No, the black blade has an alignment the same way every other creature has an alignment, none of which comes from the spell.
From the spell itself
" A weapon that is aligned can bypass the damage reduction of certain creatures"
That's referring to a weapon that is aligned by the spell. It's not talking about sentient creatures with actual alignment.
And the Black Blade IS aligned, just through means different then the spell but with the same result.
The elf wizard is aligned, just through means different than the spell. But it's not the same result.
This is really peculiar. I always thought that a aligned DR could be bypassed by an appropriately aligned PC. Therefore, I had no problem with having an intelligent weapon bypass the appropriate DR.
Nowhere does it specify only from the spell.
The spell isn't creating global alignment rules. The spell does the stuff it says it does. That stuff is because the spell is making it so.
When you cast align weapon (good) on your sword, it makes your sword good, it lets your sword bypass DR/good, and it was a [good] spell. Because the spell says so.
If you don't cast align weapon on that sword, it doesn't cause any of that to happen.
Since you're not using the spell, it's completely irrelevant.
as it's written, it imbues a sword, with something the Black Blade already has, and not a word is made about the "alignment" from the spell, being in any way different from the "alignment" the Black Blade has. It is the exact same word being used for both with no modifiers on either.
It imbues a weapon with something the elf wizard already has, and not a word is made about the "alignment" from the spell, being in any way different from the "alignment" the elf wizard has. It is the exact same word being used for both with no modifiers on either.
But the elf wizard doesn't bypass DR when you hit something with it.
In the Black Blade section it doesn't say "character alignment" it simply says it is the same "alignment" as the magus.
I thought SKR made it fairly clear that the alignment of an unintelligent object, which is not a creature, and therefore isn't making alignment-based decisions, is just for the purpose of interacting with spells, class abilities, and DR, unlike the alignment rules for characters.
as it's written, it imbues a sword, with something the Black Blade already has, and not a word is made about the "alignment" from the spell, being in any way different from the "alignment" the Black Blade has. It is the exact same word being used for both with no modifiers on either.It imbues a weapon with something the elf wizard already has, and not a word is made about the "alignment" from the spell, being in any way different from the "alignment" the elf wizard has. It is the exact same word being used for both with no modifiers on either.
But the elf wizard doesn't bypass DR when you hit something with it.
I might houserule that it does, just for the amusement of the barbarian attempting to kill things using a very irate wizard.
The way I see it, there are 3 types of "alignment":
- Alignment of a creature
- Alignment sub-type of a creature
- Alignment of an object
The first does not give any ability to bypass DR. The second gives ability to bypass appropriate DR with natural weapons. The third allows an object to bypass DR. Align Weapon alters the 3rd type of "alignment" for a weapon (only if it has none already).
Intelligent weapons are unique though, as they are not just a weapon, but a creature/sentient being. As such, they get the first type of alignment. This does not give them any innate mechanical benefits. However, they are also the only type of object capable of having an alignment other then type-3.
Whether the presence of type-1 alignment blocks Align Weapon is a bit up in the air. My own RAI/House Rule would be no, but the Intelligent Weapon will always resist if you are not assigning a type-3 alignment that is a part of its type-1 alignment. So attempting to Align a LN Black Blade to Good would give it a save. My reasoning for this is you are basically forcing a sentient being to act in a way not in accordance to its nature. However, a LG Black Blade would have no objections to doing Good damage.
wow, messy! I was completely off in my earlier assessments, and the current ruling as listed here is unclear.
Gotta say, I'm confused.
The second gives ability to bypass appropriate DR with natural weapons.
Natural weapons and weapons it wields.
Otherwise, sounds quite reasonable.