|
I'm running some players through an AP, and while prepping for our next session I noticed something I'm not sure I quite know how to handle. I'll avoid proper names and try to be as vague as possible with the setting to avoid spoilers.
Currently they're exploring a dungeon area, where they'll eventually run into a monster in a room that features 11 pits. Each one of these pits is 20 ft. deep and only 5 feet on all sides (1 square). At the bottom of each of these pits is a single, human zombie. Several questions came to me:
1) If a creature falls into one of these pits, they'll take falling damage. Does the zombie, who occupies the only space the PC could land in, take falling object damage as well?
2) The PC is now in the same square occupied by another Medium creature. How does this work? They can't be "shunted" to another adjacent square because there isn't any.
3) How does attacking this zombie work or how is the attack affected in later rounds, since the PC will be in the same square as it?
I'd say that a 5x5 square is big enough for a zombie not to get crushed if it shuffles aside. Did it?make a Reflex save, DC 10 plus PC's level or something easy. Alternately, rule that the PC and zombie take equal damage -- but recall that the PC doesn't have DR 5/slashing while the zombie is. I think falling PCs would count as a blunt weapon...
Both forced inthesame square, I'd probably run it as both are squeezed, -2 to attacks and AC. No net effect if they're fighting eachothermay, for simplicity, but might affect The situation if someone else tries to intervene. Or maybe light weapons would be unaffected, but one or two handed ones would take the penalty.
To a certain extent... the artificial construction that only one Medium creature can stand in a five-foot square is the problem. Try it out. Draw out a five-foot square on the floor. It's bigger than it looks. You can certainly fit lots of people into that area, ESPECIALLY if they're not fighting or doing jumping-jacks or whatever. The fact that the game doesn't really admit that you can have more than one person in a five foot square at a time is, I feel, a fault of the game, and a cop-out intended to solve the difficult question of "How do I fit two minis into one square without one falling over?
My suggestion... allow Medium creatures to share space in a square, but treat it as if they're squeezing.
(Warning: Thread linked above may contain spoilers for an early adventure path.)
I don't believe this is completely covered by the written rules, but I'll try to address your questions. This might belong in the advice forum, as it covers a situation the DM/GM is meant to handle on the fly.
1) The zombie isn't supposed to take damage, but considering the situation a game master may rule that it does.
2) You pretend they are in adjacent squares for rulings pertaining to the two of them. For a ruling pertaining to one of them and another creatures, treat them as squeezing.
3) Treat them as adjacent to one another; each one in a 5' x 2.5' space.
Good idea, and according to the rules of falling objects if an object is dropped (as opposed to thrown) on a creature, it's a ranged touch attack but they get a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid it.
Falling Objects: "Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged touch attack. Such attacks generally have a range increment of 20 feet. If an object falls on a creature (instead of being thrown), that creature can make a DC 15 Reflex save to halve the damage if he is aware of the object."
It's a ranged touch attack if you're dropping something on a creature. If something is just falling (but not being dropped) then it's a reflex save instead.
It's also probably reasonable to assume that the damage dealt by a falling object or fall is bludgeoning. In that case, the zombie's DR/slashing would apply to damage dealt by a falling humanoid.
Curiously, I think the RAW is that the PC remains at the top of the pit. Consider:
You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.
The closest legal position, unless the PC has a burrow, climb, or fly speed, is on the ground next to the pit. Therefore, RAW, they fall into the pit, bounce on the zombie, and are suddenly next to the pit.
Now, if I were the GM, I would simply apply the penalties for squeezing to both the zombie and the PC until the zombie is destroyed or the PC becomes helpless. They could then attack each other normally. But I think this does technically contravene RAW, as
A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.
As for your question number 1), I would use the falling object rules.
|
|
Good idea, and according to the rules of falling objects if an object is dropped (as opposed to thrown) on a creature, it's a ranged touch attack but they get a DC 15 Reflex save to avoid it.Falling Objects: "Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged touch attack. Such attacks generally have a range increment of 20 feet. If an object falls on a creature (instead of being thrown), that creature can make a DC 15 Reflex save to halve the damage if he is aware of the object."
It's a ranged touch attack if you're dropping something on a creature. If something is just falling (but not being dropped) then it's a reflex save instead.
Yah, whoops, that's what I meant to say.
|
Slightly off-subject, but directly related to the encounter you're referencing, spoilered:
When we encountered this part of the adventure, our party didn't go into that room - we stayed outside and lured the goblin out to us, then demolished him with a pair of flankers at the door. The zombie pits became a non-issue, and our GM was a little let-down. Be prepared for such an eventuality.
I throw in my vote with several of the posters above - treat them as squeezing.
As for the fall, I'd run the fall as normal, and allow the zombie a Reflex save for half damage from the falling PC (or monster, if the players get creative).
|
|
EDIT: Spoiler'd just in case.
|
|
Just reread the falling rules and decided that if the zombie fails its Reflex save and the PC lands on them, the PC will only take 1d6 lethal damage and then 1d6 nonlethal damage from the fall (instead of 2d6 lethal), as the zombie itself could count as a "yielding surface" as per the falling damage rules.
Normal squeezing isn't between opponents, so I would consider having the -4 to hit, not apply to grapple attempts and maybe not give attacks of opportunity since they are already right next to each other. If you want to stay with a more RAW mechanic (even though the situation is already going outside of it) maybe just a circumstance bonus to grapple attempts.