Hello all! New to the message board new to pathfinder society, lots of local homebrew experience for what it is worth.
That said I've been working on a character to tryout the PFS format and here is my character at a glance, up to 20th just so I can see where he'd go.
For right now the companion linked to this build is assumed to be a dog, which could change depending on actual gameplay, this is a very rough draft.
Urban Ranger Archtype; Treantmonk's Switch Hitter with Custom Build (Bounty Hunter?)- Human, Chelaxian(?)
Combat Style Archery
20 point buy with racial in STR.
STR 19 +4
DEX 13 +1
CON 14 +2
INT 10 0
WIS 13 +1
CHA 7 -2
Traits\
Combat - (Reactionary: +2 Init.)
Regional - (Savanna Child (plains) +1 Handle Animal)
Additional Ability Points
4- Dex
8- Str
12- Wis
16 & 20- Str
~Feats
1. Quick Draw
1. Imp. Initiative
2. Rapid Shot
3. Power Attack
5. Deadly Aim
6. Manyshot
7. Vital Strike(?)
9. Imp. Critical Falchion
10. Imp. Precise Shot
11. Outflank (Animal Comp.)
13. Critical Focus Falchion
14. Pinpoint Targeting
15. Blinding Critical
17. Combat Reflexes
18. Shot on the Run
19. Paired Opportunists (Animal Comp.)
Skills : Every level
[[Perception, Handle Animal, Stealth, Disable Device, Knowledge Local, Survival, Spellcraft]]
~Animal Comp. Ability Score increase
1st- Int.
2nd & 3rd- Str.
~Animal Comp Feats.
4. Dodge
5. Weapon Focus (Natural Attack)
8. Power Attack
11. Outflank (Master)
13. Wind Stance
16. Combat Reflexes
19. Paired Opportunists (Master)
Light Load 116 lbs or less; 150 gp
Short Bow 30 gp 2 lbs.
Arrows (20) 1 gp 3 lbs.
Falchion 75 gp 8 lbs.
Dagger 2 gp 1 lbs.
Backpack 2 gp 2 lbs.
Bedroll 1 sp 5 lbs.
Belt Pouch 1 gp 1/2 lbs
Flint & Steel 1 gp -
Iron Pot 8 sp 4 lbs.
Mess Kit 2 sp 1 lbs.
Rope (50ft) 1 gp 10 lbs.
Torches (10) 1 sp 10 lbs.
Trail Rations (5 days) 2 gp 5 sp 5 lbs.
Thieves' Tools, Common 30 gp 1 lbs.
Explorer's Outfit Free 8 lbs.
Spent 146 gp 7 sp = 3 gp 3 sp left
60 1/2 lbs. Carried
Anything I left out, any advice for character or even how I can find a game to use him in would be greatly appreciated! I loved the flavor of an urban ranger and like having the lock picking ability.
I'm on the edge about vital strike feat. I see how it could be useful but I don't like it much. I just can't find a better feat for that point in this build.
I was also considering taking humanoid - humans as first favored enemy going for a bounty hunter type build, not evil just a guy who rounds up wanted criminals in the big cities.
I really only took the plains trait so I could keep handle animal and because I really want to use a dog (or other animal companion) for this character. I hope that can just be a region he grew up in before he started living in the big city. Personality would be wise cracking, hard-boiled, constantly poor, down on his luck detective-like adventurer, a nod to Harry Dresden which I hope I keep just a nod not a carbon copy.
But I like roleplaying and am unfamiliar with Golarion as I've never really played there as a setting. I like the monster with a heart characters, but PFS hates monstrous races apparently so I'm leaning toward Chelaxian just to be an anti-thesis. Outside that, I'm clueless on the houses and trying to see where this character fits in.
I also couldn't afford armor after weapons and thieves tools... I hope this won't gimp me to start out.
Also I will gladly take advice for the companion feat tree if anyone has any to spare.
Why vital strike when you can take boon Companion. Full companions are much more useful and die a whole lot less.
If you want to play good I'd actually suggest you look towards silver crusade. Working with factions missions you don't like is pretty meh.
In Society its not a bad idea to carry something for everything and to make sure you have at least a little bit of diplomacy.
Armor is useful for surviving yes. I'd grab armor before theives tools.
Boon Companion is amazing I have never seen it, that's perfect thank you! As far as starting armor goes should I just skip the tools for studded leather or what? 150 gp isn't as flexible for this class to start as I'd like it to be.
Most players I meet when they first start cheat on their starting gold actually. Chain mail or studded leather yeah, trust me living is important to your health. Breastplate after your first adventure.
I'm not keen on how the switch hitter works, but woudln't it make more sense to get started on your archery feats before improved initiative? Also remember you have a lot options since treantmonk's guide was released. Cluster Shot for instance helps bypass DR with arrows.
You can rebuild as many times as you want before level 1 so building a character for PFS usually isn't that stressful.
No because to start with I'll mostly be Melee anyways, the switch hitter build allows me to cherry pick archery feats without fully specializing in archery so I can use whatever is best at the moment. Flying creatures or battle start with guys far away? Quick draw bow and full attack round one. Guys move into melee range? Drop bow draw falchion and go to town. with my companion I'll be even more melee oriented with a decent ranged option, it's not the highest dpr build out there by any means but it's no slouch on paper. I just need to test drive it to see if it holds water on the field. I could even drop my bow for more armor money if I had to because I'll want a composite longbow asap. The short bow was just to last me until I could upgrade.
Trust me, after a first few missions you can load on the mundane and burn some PP on healsticks and utility spells. Even if you can't use them a wand of infernal healing, or keep watch can go a long way. Just watch out for crazy people who think infernal healing is a bad thing.
I have heard that a lot recently about the wands and such is it necessary to get use magical device? I can drop imp. init. for cosmopolitan to get my use magical device and handle animal and two languages. I can just pick a different trait that way too, it's flavorful enough for a city character I just want to make sure I get enough out of it to make it useful.
Usually someone in your party can use them or dropped the points into it. Not a fan of dropping too many skillpoints into it myself, but I'm told its useful if you can. I took cosmopolitan and extra traits on a druid I made and I actually found them underwhelming. Skillpoints are easy to get and raise, and its also possible to make some entirely useless.
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Pathfinder Player Companion: Animal Archive
Note: The Animal Magic Item Slots table found on the inside front cover of the book is not legal except under the following conditions. First, an animal companion, familiar, or bonded mount, may choose one slot listed under its body type when taking the Extra Item Slot feat (this feat may be taken multiple times, each time selecting a different available magic item slot based on the creature’s anatomy).
So unless your animal companion takes a feet. They can only equip armor, and neck slot items. You might want to look at taken the feet one time to open up the belt slot for a belt of Str, or Dex. Then there is the Human Eye for talent trait. You give up your bonus feet for human to gain a +2 to one ability score for your animal companion. Theme wise dog is great. The big down side is the dog is one of the weakest animal companion's out there. If you decide on going for a more effective animal companion. I personally like the small cat. It has a good ac, and if you go with dex focus it can really push the limit of what it can trip.
badger
Good: It's has 3 movement types, has a good starting con, and it rages
Bad: It's is not fast. It has a low starting Str.
cat (small)
Good: It's fast, It has a really high starting Dex, and can trip.
Bad: It's needs two feet's to work. So your locked in to them for the first two.
wolf
Good: It's fast, dose good damage, and can trip.
Bad: It becomes large, and dose not increase in size until level 7.
Ok dropped Vital Strike for Boon Companion and sacrificed the shortbow and thieves tools for an Armored Coat and Sling. Frees up some more gold to start with and now other than researching the houses, including the silver crusade, I need to check out my companion's feat tree. I have an additional feat to assign thanks to boon companion and I'm not sold on the weapon focus, everything else looks solid.
You don't have to increase an animals size. You have the option to instead increase its con and dex by 2. Size increase is usually good though, becuase damage dice and special qualities.
Animals who trip when they attack are really good at low levels, but they go out of style pretty quickly.
Special quality armor means you can equip the pet with a barding with 0 ACP. Might want to look into that for cheap AC.
Calagnar, I could go with the cat, what two feats need locked in? I also love the Extra Item Slot feat! Another gem I had never seen prior to this. I went with dog because of the scent and it being an in town animal, however the animal companion can be anything really, I don't have my heart set.
Also just got told by a friend that the adopted trait to get the Gnome trait, Animal friend might work better for me then the region trait I was leaning towards... I figured RP-wise it's less cheesy to be raised by gnomes as a quirk than go from living in the plains to being an Urban Ranger. Better or worse do you think?
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Trip animals stay effective at all levels of play. They are just really good at low levels.
Alternate Racial Traits:
Eye for Talent: Humans have great intuition for hidden potential. They gain a +2 racial bonus on Sense Motive checks. In addition, when they acquire an animal companion, bonded mount, cohort, or familiar, that creature gains a +2 bonus to one ability score of the character's choice. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
Feet: Huntmaster
Prerequisites: Handle Animal 1 rank; either the animal companion, divine bond (mount), or mount class feature; human.
Benefit: If you have the animal companion class feature, pick one of the following types of animal companions that this feat affects: bird, dog, small cat, or horse. If you have the divine bond (mount) or mount class feature, this feat always affects horses.
You gain a +2 bonus on Handle Animal and Knowledge (nature) checks with creatures of that type of animal. Furthermore, you are treated as one level higher when determining the abilities of your animal companion or mount, as long as it is of the chosen type.
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Calagnar, I could go with the cat, what two feats need locked in? I also love the Extra Item Slot feat! Another gem I had never seen prior to this. I went with dog because of the scent and it being an in town animal, however the animal companion can be anything really, I don't have my heart set.
Also just got told by a friend that the adopted trait to get the Gnome trait, Animal friend might work better for me then the region trait I was leaning towards... I figured RP-wise it's less cheesy to be raised by gnomes as a quirk than go from living in the plains to being an Urban Ranger. Better or worse do you think?
If you want your companion to be much better you can take. The race trait Eye for Talent, along with the two feet's Boon Companion, and Huntmaster. That how ever it is 3 of your characters feet's. However we have a ranger in my home game with a animal companion set up this way. He is a tripping fend. Ranger sends in the cat first. Then comes in behind and cleans there clocks as they lay on the ground. Prone +4 to hit Flanking +2 to hit = +6 to hit. After the cat gets in and sets every thing up for the ranger.
Cat, Small (Cheetah, Leopard)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 50 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d4 plus trip), 2 claws (1d2); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 21, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6; Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.
Stays small at level 4. Gains +2 Dex, and Con.
Feet's
Weapon Finesses (To Hit BAB + Dex + 1 Size)
Agile Maneuvers (CMB BAB + Dex - 1 Size)
Trip animals stay effective at all levels of play. They are just really good at low levels.
Except when the foe is multilegged like a basilisk or flies. Its a nifty bonus when it happens, but by 5th level your already running into foes who have higher CMD and some who are outright immune.
If you get a pet that has a high dex and low str remember finesse! Small Cat works great with weapon finesse.
Right on, ok here's what I have,
Drop Imp. Init. for Eye for Talent. +2 Dex
Not going to have the room to sacrifice anything for Huntsman...
Going with small cat instead of dog (cats get the scent and low-light vision too plus a special charge ability and trip, no brainer.)
Also going to increase it to medium just because I can. Big kitten!
~Animal Comp. Ability Score increase
1st- Int.
2nd- Dex.
3rd- Dex.
4th- Dex.
~Animal Comp Feats.
1. Dodge
2. Weapon Finesse
3. Agile Maneuvers
4. Extra Item Slot (Belt)
5. Outflank (Master)
6. Wind Stance
7. Combat Reflexes
8. Paired Opportunists (Master)
He'll be more about landing hits than bonus dmg, try to compensate that with magic items mid-late game, Amulet of mighty fists or something. The high Dex will hopefully add much needed survivability.
or wait, does he lose trip if he goes up in size?
or wait, does he lose trip if he goes up in size?
He might, thats how I read it. I made mine dex based so I didn't want to lose the dex by going up in size anyway.
Yeah then he'll stay small, otherwise, cat is in, dog is out. Thanks for all the help so far in the build guys! If you think of anything else let me know :)
Sweet, thanks for the comparison to the wolf data :) Considering trips will be only if and when he cat can get them, that little sidebar on weapon finesse frees up another feat which is pretty awesome. Looks like I get power attack back.
Okay updated character so far with musings;
- Human, Chelaxian - Faction: Andoran Chaotic Good
Combat Style Archery
STR 19 +4
DEX 13 +1
CON 14 +2
INT 10 0
WIS 13 +1
CHA 7 -2
Alternate Racial Trait: Eye for talent, +2 Sense Motive, +2 Dex Animal Companion.
^No bonus Feat.
Traits\
Combat - (Reactionary: +2 Init.)
Social - (Adopted: Gnome)
Racial Animal Friend: +1 Will Saves within 30 ft. of animal. Handle Animal always considered class skill.
Additional Ability Points
4- Dex
8- Str
12- Wis
16 & 20- Str
~Feats
1. Quick Draw
2. Rapid Shot
3. Power Attack
5. Deadly Aim
6. Manyshot
7. Boon Companion
9. Imp. Critical Falchion
10. Imp. Precise Shot
11. Outflank (Animal Comp.)
13. Critical Focus Falchion
14. Pinpoint Targeting
15. Blinding Critical
17. Combat Reflexes
18. Shot on the Run
19. Paired Opportunists (Animal Comp.)
Skills : Every level
[[Perception, Handle Animal, Stealth, Disable Device, Knowledge Local, Survival, Spellcraft]]
Animal Companion: Cat, Small.
~Animal Comp. Ability Score increase
1st- Int.
2nd- Dex.
3rd- Dex.
4th- Dex.
~Animal Comp Feats.
4. Dodge
5. Weapon Finesse
7. Power Attack
8. Extra Item Slot (Belt)
10. Outflank (Master)
13. Wind Stance
16. Combat Reflexes
18. Paired Opportunists (Master)
Light Load 116 lbs or less; 150 gp
Armored Coat 50 gp 20 lbs.
Sling - -
Sling Bullets 1 sp 5 lbs.
Falchion 75 gp 8 lbs.
Dagger 2 gp 1 lbs.
Backpack 2 gp 2 lbs.
Bedroll 1 sp 5 lbs.
Belt Pouch 1 gp 1/2 lbs
Flint & Steel 1 gp -
Iron Pot 8 sp 4 lbs.
Mess Kit 2 sp 1 lbs.
Rope (50ft) 1 gp 10 lbs.
Torches (10) 1 sp 10 lbs.
Trail Rations (5 days) 2 gp 5 sp 5 lbs.
Explorer's Outfit Free 8 lbs.
Spent 135 gp 8 sp = 14 gp 2 sp left
80 1/2 lbs. Carried
STR 19 +4
DEX 13 +1
CON 14 +2
INT 10 0
WIS 13 +1
CHA 7 -2
personally I dislike this stat array for a switch-hitter, your DEX is atrocious, and if you plan on doing archery early (which you should by 3rd level) you should want a higher DEX that balances with STR.
for PFS and other forums of play that go with point buys, I have found that I prefer to balance my STR and DEX by buying 15s in both. I also prefer the Versatile Human Variant, as you get enough skill ranks as it is, and your combat style gives you enough feats to be versatile in combat. This allows you to get 2 17's at the start, and by level 8 they should both be natural 18's
Overall, it is a much better stat array, and it happens much sooner than waiting 16 levels to get your DEX up.
A +4 STR is just as effective as a +5, because the cap where a 2 handed weapon becomes most effective is at +4, spending the extra points to buy a 17 (6 points) really is not worth it for the overall +1 in damage. Even only buying a 16 and boosting it to 18 from the start would be more efficient imo.
reccommended build:
STR 17
DEX 17
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 7
If you must start out with more damage, then I reccommend:
STR 18
DEX 17
CON 13
INT 11
WIS 13
CHA 7
Both are good builds for the switch hitter, one just makes you more fragile at the beginning of the game.
feats you care about:
1) Power Attack
2) Rapid Shot
3) Deadly Aim/Quickdraw
5) Quickdraw/Deadly Aim (depends on preference of what is more important)
6) Many Shot
build is virtually done by then, Boon Companion if you like, personally I like the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack Chain from here on, since AC is important because I lack Heavy Armor Proficiency, and as a switch hitter I will both be moving around a lot, and diving into melee, so I want to boost mah AC as much as I can.
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Someone may have already said this, Pip-Squeak, but Treantmonk's guides (awesome as they are!), do not have a lot of the newer content that is available to you. His builds are amazing as a base, but definitely look into tweaking them.
Also, a word of advice, if you do start using more recent content (other source books, adventure path content, etc.) make sure you have a copy of it with you when you play that character, either hard copy or digital.
Cheers! :)
fair points both,
Master_Mashmellow I like the flow of your stat progression a bit more.
I would opt for the recommended spread but not sure I want to make the and I have no issue with switching power attack 1st level with quickdraw at 3rd level.
deadly aim can stay at 5th as I'm not wanting a huge focus on archery mainly because in my experience, GM's shut archery down fast thru wind walls and such. That's a big annoyance I don't want some annoying spells every other caster seems to have shut my character down every single combat.
Lamontia, I assume that having web links isn't acceptable? Aka I have to own some form of the sourcebook each feat trait comes from? For the most part that isn't a huge issue as I own a lot of source books but I don't have the one with boon companion, extra item slot, or Agile weapon enhancement, so thats annoying.
PFS I have yet to see a single windwall. I have yet to see a situation that would really slow archers down beyond enemies hiding behind corners because the dungeon is tight. DMs don't get to pick the spell list in the pre written scenarios.
Yes, they want you to buy a physical copy or print out a sheet with the waterseal thingy at the bottom. Most GMs I've played with won't check you and I've had plenty of people I know lend me books if I ask nicely at the local places. HeroLab of course doesn't count.
I own hard copies of core book, APG, Bestiary I, ult. combat, ult. magic, ult. equipment, advanced race guide, and gamemastery guide. I just need to finalize the build before I shell out cash for pdfs or whatever I'm missing.
When you get to third level, how does Favored Community factory in to PFS? Can you just pick "Absalom" to have the entire city?
That's how I read it. The adventures take place all over though. I've been everywhere it feels like. My first mission was in irresen, last in cheliax, several in tian, several in the god forsaken tapestry. I'd say absolom would be safe to call a community though.
I was worried it might be too big, and I'd have to pick a district or something. I've also been all over, but it seems to be the one place visited more than once or twice.
Would be too small if it only affected one district. Favored Community is a cool idea, but only if you know you'll be in a few select places in your career. Its pretty gimped if your working for the pathfinder society, who demands that you go pretty much everywhere to loot, steal, and bother peasants. Sometimes kill bad guys.