Question about Initiative Order

[Dema_89]

Hi everyone,
just a simple question (maybe a silly one), to be sure about how initiative order works.

Let's suppose we have a Fighter (F), a Wizard (W), the Wizard's Improved Familiar (WF) and an ugly and terrible monster (M).

Rolling for initiative would result in a W > M > WF > F.

My question is, can the Wizard decide to delay his turn and act for instance in the following order: M - F - WF - W, or once the order is rolled it is unchangable?

Thx in advance.

R.

[Ascalaphus]

Yes. It's described as "delaying" your action in the initiative order; it can be a very useful trick for wizards. It's subtly but importantly different from "readying" an action. I heartily recommend reading up on those rules in the core book, it'll increase the stuff a wizard can do significantly :)

[Bearded Ben]

Link to Rules for Delaying and Readying

[Dema_89]

Thanks a lot!

Shame on me that i missed that part of the rules, it is extremely useful!

Just a minor doubt.
If i decide to delay my action, am i considered flat-footed because i've not yet acted or the delay action count as having acted (my english is terrible, i know ^^)?

Thanks again.

R.

[Akerlof]

Dema_89 wrote:

Thanks a lot!

Shame on me that i missed that part of the rules, it is extremely useful!

Just a minor doubt.
If i decide to delay my action, am i considered flat-footed because i've not yet acted or the delay action count as having acted (my english is terrible, i know ^^)?

Thanks again.

R.

I'm thinking no, you're not flat footed because you've had a chance to act, and it seems like delaying is a "not an action" type action:

Flat-Footed wrote:

Flat-Footed: At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues of high enough level have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which means that they cannot be caught flat-footed. Characters with uncanny dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat. A flat-footed character can't make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat.

I read it as: Your first regular turn comes up in the initiative order -> You are no longer flat-footed -> You choose to delay.

[Dema_89]

Akerlof wrote:

I'm thinking no, you're not flat footed because you've had a chance to act, and it seems like delaying is a "not an action" type action

I agree with your point.

Thanks a lot :)

R.

[MurphysParadox]

I agree with Akerlof. Your first regular turn did come up and you chose to delay. So from the perspective of the character, the wizard took a bit of time to figure out that there is a fight (this is the period in which you are flat footed), then decided to wait until he saw what the monster and fighter did before he acted.

Note: It is worth considering initiative as a circle; W M WF F and M F WF W is only different in that the WF and F switched places. If the wizard delays until after the WF, and the WF delays until after the F, then the wizard lost a turn. You're better off, in this case (where you move from the first to act to the last to act), to move somewhere safer and ready an action to blast the M if it moves towards you.

If it goes after the fighter, you won't get to attack and will act first in the next round. Otherwise it gives you a chance to do something with your turn.

Now, if it was M W F WF and you wanted to let the fighter go first (changing it to M F WF W), then delaying is fine because you aren't going to lose your turn.

[Dema_89]

I've added a Warrior and a Monster just for a background contingency, the thing i was worried about if i would have been able to coordinate Familiar's and Wizard's actions :)

Thanks again :)

[Xaratherus]

Another important tip in regards to delaying: You can also 'ready' an action to trigger under particular circumstances; in that instance, the moment your 'trigger' is met your action goes off immediately.

Using the above example, let's say that the monster is a spellcaster as well. You could tell your DM, "I watch the monster closely, and am ready to try to counterspell if it appears the creature is about to cast something." Then, the moment that the creature begins to cast, you will 'interrupt' it with a counterspell attempt (you'd still have to roll to identify the spell and whatnot).

When a readied action triggers based off another creature's (or character's) action, it is considered to 'interrupt' the action, and your initiative then changes so you act immediately before the creature that triggered your action.

[Ascalaphus]

A rule of thumb to remember is this: readying is something you do to be ready for a particular event. When it happens, you interrupt and go before that event is complete. (Like readying to interrupt an enemy spellcaster; very useful.)

Delaying is "stepping out" of the initiative order; you can step in at any time after something happens, but you can't step in to prevent that thing.

Delaying is very useful to spellcasters and their allies. For example, if you're going to cast a buff spell on the fighter, ask him to delay until after your turn, and act immediately after you. You can then cast a buff spell on him that he can profit from immediately.

It can also be useful to delay for a short while until an ally has "solved a problem": for example there's a monster threatening your area, and you suck at casting defensively. So you delay a little bit waiting for the fighter to kill the monster, after which you can cast your spell without danger.

I personally find that clever use of Delay is an essential component of good teamwork in combat, so knowing these rules is very useful.