Goblin Squad Member
|
It is only a matter of time. I would seem implausible to not have ranches, farms and any other type of farm environment where plants or animals are grown or bred. After all, since almost everything will be player made/produced it will happen, just might take a while for the game mechanics to be developed.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Should someone who plays a ranger have the ability to shoot and permanently kill your pet? They just need to eat, your pet was meat...and the time it takes you to go find and train another is just added content for you. They are doing you a favor, RP and content, sounds good to me.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
By "killed", I'm wondering if you mean killed dead or mostly dead? If I can raise cattle for meat, then I see no reason why they can't be killed permanently (they and any other livestock). However, I can see true pets as being mostly dead (i.e. taken out of combat) but remaining healable/resurrectable. Unless a ranger can easily summon up a new companion after the current one is killed, being able to permanently kill his pet seems too much of a hit to an important part of his character.
Part of this discussion hinges on how difficult and costly pets and mounts will be. As I've posted before, if mounts are as easily purchased as horses in UO, then replacing them when they're killed is little more than a temporary inconvenience. If they are as costly as war mounts in WoW or Rift, having them killed would be a huge issue financially.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
However, I can see true pets as being mostly dead (i.e. taken out of combat) but remaining healable/resurrectable. Unless a ranger can easily summon up a new companion after the current one is killed, being able to permanently kill his pet seems too much of a hit to an important part of his character.
Depends how powerful the personal pets are. If they're huge claw shredding, health tanks that can seriously damage a character on their own, then I feel they're fair game. If they're more a cool bonus that adds some neat benefits, then permadeath might be a little harsh. Maybe a one hour 'timeout' after which they can be resurrected would be appropriate in that instance?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I guess I was hedging my comments against character instantly rezzing their pets and their opposition finding themselves up against an endless supply of such beasties. Seen and experienced this before, and it becomes highly annoying.
An hour might be overkill. A few minutes would stop this happening.
I'll add that I've never taken a pet/minion class in almost two decades of online gaming. So I've absolutely zero idea of what timers are normal or how the pets actually work from a mechanics perspective. I'm flying blind with my guesses here :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I we no reason why livestock won't be considered the same as any other harvestable resource.
However, if we want them to be something that falls within the middle of:
Resource ---- Livestock ------ Pet
I would really like to see that. This would mean that livestock could be raised, traded, stolen, and even killed (destroyed).
Pets, and I would include mounts, that are in-game generated could be killed, which would place them on a long term timer or require some form of healing in order to respawn them faster.
Pets or mounts that come from out of game purchases or are summoned would follow whatever cool downs associated with their use.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Pets, and I would include mounts, that are in-game generated could be killed, which would place them on a long term timer or require some form of healing in order to respawn them faster.
Pets or mounts that come from out of game purchases or are summoned would follow whatever cool downs associated with their use.
I don't agree here...why not make them killable as well? Having to go get a new pet adds content and the constant deaths will lead to a sales market like all equipment.
Maybe they can be threaded, but this still does not stop their degradation and eventual destruction.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Pets aren't equipment, they're a class feature. In PnP if you lose one you go out and pray for 24 hours near where one would be.
It should take up an ability slot, not an item slot.
Livestock and whatnot, now those would be items, and should be killable. Maybe drop some goods, but I think you should get better items for purposefully killing them and harvesting them well. Maybe at a certain place on the farm.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Pets aren't equipment, they're a class feature. In PnP if you lose one you go out and pray for 24 hours near where one would be.
It should take up an ability slot, not an item slot.
Livestock and whatnot, now those would be items, and should be killable. Maybe drop some goods, but I think you should get better items for purposefully killing them and harvesting them well. Maybe at a certain place on the farm.
If I design my character to be dependant upon a pet, how is that any different than my archer requiring a bow or bard requiring their mandolin? Should that bow or instrument, as a fundamental part of my character design be indestructible and/or magically reappear 24 hours after being lost?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd say 2 factors have to be applied on the should pets be killable.
1. Are we talking multiple teirs of drastically different power of pets.
IE if there is an epic pet that must be tamed and earned, that is not an automatic earn for the class just by leveling up, then the boosted pet is following the same general rules as equipment, and thus must be vulnerable to item loss etc... If reaching a certain merit badge, or training the pet handling skill etc... poof allows you to have the pet, and the only variation of that vs someone else with the same training and badge is cosmetic (or a choice, but they have the same options as you), then it is a class feature, and should be immune.
2. pet use/equiping.
If using the pet counts against your equipped skills, stamina etc... (IE commanding it etc...) then that is a vote towards it being a class skill, and thus recoverable without any real hassle.
If the pet is an added bonus on top of your choice of equiped skills. Then the pet is a bonus consumable... and thus subject to death. (remember everyone is going to be multiclassed to some extent at some point, if it is ballanced for a druid with X skills to have it, it still has to also not be a drastic improvement for a 20/20 wizard/druid to be using pure wizard skills, with a pet out, without blowing a normal 20 wizard out of the park.)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
If using the pet counts against your equipped skills, stamina etc... (IE commanding it etc...) then that is a vote towards it being a class skill, and thus recoverable without any real hassle.
By this argument, any gear specific skills should be treated this way. If I build a character and all the skills I train to equip are only usable with a sword, or flute, or bow...how its that any different?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
Is the pet concern completely resolved if the threads of fate can protect an animal companion in the way and for similar cost as items?
Remember, there's no one trying to guarantee that you cannot build a completely ineffective character, or one that has the absolute worst synergy between abilities.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Nihimon, can you confirm item degradation?
It was my understanding that constant unfixable degradation was a fundamental part of the game, insuring crafters always have a job replacing broken stuff...but I must admit, after almost a year and a half of following the game, the difference between initially stated intent and current realization is all starting to blur for me.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Nihimon, can you confirm item degradation?
Well, I can point you to a relevant statement from a dev :)
We don't currently have a concept of item degradation/repair. You'll use consumables to temporarily boost certain gear in effectiveness, which likely expire when you die, and we're hoping that will cover enough of the intended effects of a degrade/repair cycle to not require such a system. But we'll be able to say more for certain later, once we get a better picture of the actual usage patterns for items.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I've often wondered how players would react if their characters aged during the game, eventually dying from old age. Personally, I think I'd like it, but I really don't know.Coming from an Elf I can see why!!
Hah! I can see that, too :)
In all likelihood, though, my Paladin will be Human, so I'm not a complete hypocrite :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@Nihimon, can you confirm item degradation?Well, I can point you to a relevant statement from a dev :)
We don't currently have a concept of item degradation/repair. You'll use consumables to temporarily boost certain gear in effectiveness, which likely expire when you die, and we're hoping that will cover enough of the intended effects of a degrade/repair cycle to not require such a system. But we'll be able to say more for certain later, once we get a better picture of the actual usage patterns for items.
Hmmm, unfortunate. Looks like I have no idea about the current direction of development. Time for me to leave the discussions to those who know better.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've often wondered how players would react if their characters aged during the game, eventually dying from old age. Personally, I think I'd like it, but I really don't know.
Mabinogi has ageing, but unless you think of 18 as "old age" it doesn't really count. Dying of old age would be the goal in a permadeath game, but dying from old age 1/day or so makes little sense.
to the topic: livestock!
I see the following scenario:
-the quality of wool (needed for enchanted cloaks) produced at my sheep farm depends on pastures (ie location), on my relevant skills and on the quality of the sheep.
-each sheep is an 'item' with unique quality that I can trade (or slaughter).
-the quality of the sheep is determined at birth but will degrade if not kept well. The initial quality depends on the quality of the parents (which is why good breeding rams are valuable and why you only keep one).
-if I want supreme quality wool, I need a good breeding pair to start my flock and have to tend it or it will degrade.
-if there is a market for supreme quality wool, there will also be a market for quality breeding rams. If there is also a market for supreme quality mutton (sacrifice to the gods? luxury restaurants?), even better. (And if quality degrades so that lamb wool/meat is the best, then you may have enough complexity for a hardcore economy player).
For oxen (milk, beef, hides, pulling carts) and horses (packhorses, riding horses, warhorses) there could be similar scenarios.
Mechanically it should not be so hard to do. Balancing the economy and chore/fun ratio might the a fair bit of work though. I expect at least horsebreeding (and training) to make it to the game. Sheep and cows need recipes demanding quality wool/milk/meat to become meaningful, but if that is done then the door is open for livestock breeding.