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In Dante's book, the city of Dis is the beginning of the 6th Circle of Hell, separated from the 5th by a wall. In D&D this wall, and Dis, are the 2nd Circle, but it's the same idea: a big wall around Dis.
Here's what I'm looking for -- if you were to put that wall in your Homebrew game, how tall would you make it?
I want the number (in feet) to have symbolic meaning, but I also want it to be a good size.
666 is a number for the Abyss (in D&D) and for "The Beast" -- Nero -- in the Biblical Dogma. 13 is a good option but a 13' wall seems kinda small, doesn't it? What are some other symbolic numbers I could use for the height of the Wall of Dis?
Thanks for the ideas.
Tall enough that things don't arbitrarily fly over it.
Oh wait.
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For the past 10 years or so I've imagined it very much like that wall, but now, for the first time, I actually need to specify the height for game-mechanics. I need a number.
So I'm thinking I want the number to have symbolic meaning; I don't want to randomly pick 300 feet (for example). And I figured I'd ask the other Lords of the Boards for some possible symbolic numbers.
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(BTW, Kthulhu: Not sure if you're interested (looking at your Avatar) but one of my gaming buddies is starting a Play-By-Post game, Pathfinder, RAW -- taking place on Earth: Florida, where Cthulhu has come -- it's a post-apocalypse, Modern Fantasy Cthulhu game using Pathfinder rules.)
My advice: Don't make a typical wall. This is a planar thing, after all. A wall of force kind of effect that spans the extent of the plane and is invisible is completely rational and you could easily state that there are places where the wall has been worked-around (i.e. there are tunnels or weak spots)
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Thanks Serisan,
In my Homebrew the Wall itself is a Metaphysical concept more than anything else. It extends metaphysically to infinity up and to infinity down. (This is more a hindrance to Gods and Archdevils and such doing Plane-altering megamagic than mere PCs casting 8th & 9 Level spells.) The physical wall, however, manifests as a Cold Iron wall around the City of Dis.
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13 chains tall.
A chain is a length used in surveying = 30.48 meters (100 feet). 13 chains then = 1300 feet.
So you've got 13 mentioned twice in the measurement, and the measurement itself is also a tool to bind or contain. Plus 1300 feet is really imposing, even for a planar city. (This is for the longer "ramsden's" chain. The shorter "standard" chain is 66 feet long. So you could do 10 chains and have a 666 foot high wall)
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5 Fathoms tall.
A fathom is generally used to measure depth, which is appropriate as one descends into hell. 5 Fathoms = 30 feet, which is a reasonable height for a normal city wall.
It also evokes several literary references, most notably "Full Fathom Five" from "The Tempest", which is the same passage that gives us the phrase "sea-change" (according to Wiki). So it is a wall of the depths that marks a significant change.
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13 (or 7) ells.
An ell is another name for a cubit. It is equal to 45 inches. 13 has a standard meaning, as you mentioned. 7 is often associated with the heavens - which works if the wall was created by the heavens to contain the hells. 7 ells would give you 26.25 feet, while 13 would give you 48.75 feet.
An ell is also an architectural structure perpendicular to the rest of the structure. It san therefore signify "a drastic change" or a "sharp departure from what has been".
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All of these have the advantage of "old sounding" names. It adds a little mystery. And that's all I've got for right now. Sounds like fun. :-)
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There are several numerical concepts that might help with what you're looking for. Perfect numbers might be one, although perfect and a city in hell doesn't necessarily jive for everyone. It might put you on a thought track that works.
9! might be nice given the 9 circles of hell, but is 362,880. Maybe different units than feet? Maybe a different base than 10?
If you want to give a nod to Dante, 5! is 120 and 6! is 720.
Pi to the power of pi is 36.46... if that gets into the area you want, else units other than feet might help.
Greek Numerology might give you some other ideas.
If choosing something from number theory or numerology might have a value in being somewhat ordered (lawful).
Why not start measuring it in farthings?
13 Miles.
Yar!
I like the idea of using the perfect number (very lawful)... but with an evil twist. The perfect number itself is actually not a single number, but a formula. Using that, you're evil twist could be that the wall itself has variable sizes based on the perspective of the viewer.
Let's say the perspective is where the viewing creature's visual sensors are. If their sensors are 2' from the ground, the wall appears to be 6' high. But when their sensors are at 3' up, the wall extends to 28 feet. 5' equates to a wall 496' high. 7' equates to 8128' high, etc.
This way it has physical dimensions, but those dimensions are always greater then can be physically overcome.
Or for something immutable, you could also go with 722500. This is the big number used by Camping to determine when the Rapture would take place (aka: doomsday).
~P
Ironically, 13 is considered the Holy Number while 666 is considered the Unholy Number.
13 constantly appears in the Bible.
666 Locks/Seals on Lucifer's Cage/Prison.
So 8128 could be it?
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(BTW, Kthulhu: Not sure if you're interested (looking at your Avatar) but one of my gaming buddies is starting a Play-By-Post game, Pathfinder, RAW -- taking place on Earth: Florida, where Cthulhu has come -- it's a post-apocalypse, Modern Fantasy Cthulhu game using Pathfinder rules.)
Sure, sounds cool. Have him PM me the details?