[Jehova's Arena, Test] Fight the Thirty-Fourth, Eko vs. Shigeharu

[Champion of mbauers]

Gin Kyomaru wrote:

Well then, that seems like an exploit.. but if you agree then now we know how to abuse it

I definitely preferred that start to this one. ;-)

[GM Choon]

The actual arbiter can step on my ties anytime. :)
I was having a hard time finding info on that issue so I'm actually really glad you chimed in.
Everything else is looking good guys. Keep it up. :)

[Gin Kyomaru]

See I Told ya! ahah

Miscalculating his strike he smirks to find that Shigeharu may indeed have similar abilities to him and nods in approval, Placing his hand back upon his blade and aiming for a more precise strike Stepping up north once more.

Arbiter:

Swift Arcane Strike, Standard Two handed Strike, 5ft North again. 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (9) + 5 = 142d6 + 8 ⇒ (2, 1) + 8 = 11

miss , your turn

[Champion of mbauers]

Katana fight continues!

Shigeharu, clutches his grievous wound and presses the attack, swinging his ice-covered sword again at Gin.

Trip with spellstrike hits a 21 CMD. You take 7 nonlethal damage and are fatigued, entangled, and knocked prone. Back to you!

Arbiter:

Trip again with combat expertise. 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (12) + 9 = 21 Nonlethal 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (4) + 3 = 7 plus prone, fatigued, entangled. Rounds remaining: Shield (14/20), Mage Armor (indefinite), Sword +2 (6/10), Arcane pool points remaining (1/4) If/when he stands, AoO with two-handed Katana spellstrike, whetstone damage vs prone, fatigued, entangled AC. 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (11) + 7 = 18 Katana damage 1d8 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11 plus nonlethal damage 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (5) + 3 = 8

[Champion of mbauers]

Didn't see that you moved. I'll 5ft move first, obviously, then trip you.

[Gin Kyomaru]

Gin Falls to the ground feeling his legs becomes sweeped from under him. A loud thud as the sword smacks against his calf... Cursing He stands, provoking the strike, His blade shining bright.

Arbiter:

Stand as Move Action and Attempt to cast True Strike from Arcane bond Concentration 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (11) + 8 = 19

Provoke standing up

[Champion of mbauers]

AoO hits an 18 vs your prone, fatigued, entangled AC (by my count that's an effective 25 AC. Damage is 11 lethal and 8 nonlethal. Continue good sir.

[Gin Kyomaru]

That spell persists after hitting? Odd please check that to make sure That did hit btw

[Champion of mbauers]

Yep, it's frostbite. It has one charge per level. As long as I don't cast other spells it lasts until I've used 3 charges. I'll link it for you. The reason it entangles you for a round is because I use it with Rime Spell. I have the magical lineage trait which allows me to cast a Rime Spell Frostbite as a level one spell. Meanwhile, standing is a move, so you still have a standard action.

Frostbite

Rime Spell

Magical Lineage

[Gin Kyomaru]

As Gin Rises, his cloak releasing a small pulse of energy and listing an arcane hymn.

Arbiter:

Shawl of Life keeping goes off automatically healing 10 lethal and 10 nonlethal

Spellcraft DC 16:

True Strike

your turn He stands and 5ft's North Again

[Gin Kyomaru]

Oh I was somewhat aware once I thought about it , I think it's fine

[Champion of mbauers]

The swordsman seems impressed by Gin's resilience. He slashes at the elf, then tries to summon a spell of his own but can't concentrate so close to the large reach of the sword.

Move up, spell combat. Hit you with the katana, hits a 25, but crit doesn't confirm. Damage is 10 lethal and 7 nonlethal. Concentration check fails to cast my spell. Are you dead yet? ;-)

Arbiter:

Spellcraft 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (8) + 9 = 17 5ft move. Swift Action: Arcane Pool to use Arcane Accuracy. Full round: Spellcombat, Spellstrike, Katana attack with Frostbite, -3 to boost concentration 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (19) + 6 = 25 Crit Confirm 1d20 + 6 ⇒ (4) + 6 = 10 Katana damage 1d8 + 5 ⇒ (2) + 5 = 7 plus Nonlethal 1d6 + 3 ⇒ (3) + 3 = 6 Concentration DC 17 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (4) + 9 = 13

[Champion of mbauers]

Oh, and I did ID your spell. Forgot to type that.

[Gin Kyomaru]

3 away from -1; Let this be our Final CLASH

Gin could feel it, the end was near.. This man.. This Shigeharu, was truly a mighty warrior. Gin's teeth Chattering, his mind foggy, with only one thought .. One strike. As his opponent stabs into his abdomen he grips his blade and attempts to bisect Shigeharu laterally

"NNNNgghh, Shinkenryu: Shippu Doto! Raikougiri!!!"

Arbiter:

Swift Action Arcane Strike, Standard Two handed Power Attack with true Strike 1d20 + 21 ⇒ (7) + 21 = 282d6 + 9 ⇒ (1, 1) + 9 = 11

Attack: 28 for 11 Damage

Wow.. I rolled real low...

[Champion of mbauers]

That'll do it. Good game, sir! Since we're done, I read your spoiler about the shawl, since I couldn't figure out what it was. Hope you don't mind. Cool idea for this format, but I have a few questions, because I think you may have interpreted it incorrectly.

1) Keep in mind that some of my damage is lethal and some is nonlethal. I hit you for 11 lethal and 15 nonlethal. Suppose you have 25 hit points. I didn't actually knock you down to -1 HP (thus the shawl doesn't trigger). I knocked you down to 14 hp, but with 15 nonlethal damage. By rule, that knocks you unconscious, and I then coup de grace you.

2) Suppose I did all lethal damage and the same scenario happened. Have you checked the rules forums for the timing of that? What I mean is, you went to stand up as your move and I stabbed you, knocking you to negatives. Do you fall prone and then it activates, meaning you only have a standard or move action left, or does it activate before you even fall prone? If it's the latter, that's a very cool item.

3) How does the fueling of the shawl work in terms of the arena. I get that you can power the shawl outside of combat because it lasts 24 hours, but you have to fuel it with HP. Do you fuel the shawl and then heal yourself with a potion or something outside of combat? And if so, does that count towards your consumable allotment for the match? Just wondering, since I might eventually get one of these myself. ;-)

In any event, good game. That was really fun!

[Gin Kyomaru]

You actually did 26 damage 11 from lethal and 15 from nonlethal.. But I assume it activates as soon as the situation is met, and because AoO's happen before the action and the Shawl activate when it is met, I was still at -1 it was just from lethal and non-lethal.. meaning I wouldn't start to bleed.. I believe. I will have to check again just to make sure.. In this particular case it wouldnt have made a difference for the attacks but I see your point.

With the Shawl I use a scroll of Infernal healing and include that in my 5% regain consumable fund IE 225 Gold [Generally a 2nd level scroll, a potion and a 1st level scroll]

Truth be told that fight could have gone either way, but yes I have noticed its a wonderful item for arena.. and in general if you have nice saves already.If I didn't think it would have gone off.. I would have Drunk a potion of CLW instead and ate the Consumable price. Good game regardless, I had much Fun... Eventually I'll throw my Blade.

[Champion of mbauers]

That's an awesome idea. Essentially using 25 gp pre fight to get 10 temporary HP. Does a shawl take up the cloak slot, or the neck slot?

My point though, and we can ask the arbiters to weigh in, is that while I did do 26 damage, the lethal vs nonlethal matters. You were never reduced to -1 HP. You were reduced to 14 HP with 15 nonlethal damage. Nonlethal damage doesn't actually reduce your HP. The rules for nonlethal damage are that when nonlethal damage equals your HP total you are staggered and when it exceeds your total you are unconscious. When you stand up and I stab you, the nonlethal exceeding your current HP total causes you to fall unconscious, but you don't actually fall to -1 to trigger the shawl. I then would coup de grace you for 2d8 + 12 ⇒ (1, 5) + 12 = 18 lethal plus 2d6 + 6 ⇒ (1, 3) + 6 = 10 more nonlethal. And keep in mind that if you get dropped to negative con score or whatever (or fail the coup de grace fort save) and would die, the shawl doesn't kick in either.

In another practice match I had the nonlethal rules came up regarding the Diehard feat (which is why Eben was trying to get a houserule for it in the recruitment thread). I'm just saying, you have a cool combo with the shawl, but watch out for nonlethal damage because it can circumvent it in this way.

[Gin Kyomaru]

Oh another thing, I think you should combo it with the Aegis of Recovery, though Im not sure What it counts as.. If consumable I say to do it at.. 7th level.. The Shawl takes up the Cloak slot.

I will agree, there is no reason for things like Ferocity and Diehard NOT to work against non-lethal.. but against lethal and vice-versa because it logically makes little to no sense one way or the other Survive a cannon shot.. but Not a light slap? I mean if he already is gonna houserule some things like not getting spell focus for your creation feats then something like that should be an easy fix.

[Champion of mbauers]

Hmm, I imagine that would count as consumable if it got used, yeah. Could be good at high levels.

[Gin Kyomaru]

And Im prettysure Jehova doesnt want to turn this into." Everyone abuses Non-lethal" or " Everyone is a paladin/something else that heals" situation to happen

[Champion of mbauers]

Well, in some situations non-lethal is good and in some it's bad. When I fought the diehard guy, that helped. In this instance where it circumvents the shawl, it's good. But those are very specific circumstances. Someone is much more likely to have a means to heal (especially as levels go higher) than they are to rely on diehard or shawl of lifekeeping. Imagine if I'm fighting a cleric, for example, who just uses a cure mod on himself and rolls an average 12. It actually heals 12 lethal and 12 nonlethal and effectively heals 24 damage. That pretty much nerfs my whole strategy. (Hmm, I should have a contingency for that, haha).

[Gin Kyomaru]

He would require to heal is the issue and no matter what in this game making someone helpless quickly is what I can see That doing.. With your combo it becomes an issue to even attempt to heal and Martial prowess just gets crapped on..... Now I have an Idea for another character.. after my other one

[Champion of mbauers]

Yeah, once I get someone down on the ground and hit with the spell I have a pretty strong advantage, but I have a lot of weaknesses too. A mobile range-y guy can light me up pretty hard core before I can even get close. You and me were pretty evenly matched, IMO.

[Gin Kyomaru]

Oh yeah.. Easily... My Wizard level really helped too against your Magus'ness It was VERY even, though I in the end wasted an action to make sure I didnt get screwed with invis. That scroll with See invis.

[Champion of mbauers]

Well, the other spell I had left was Vanish, so it wasn't necessarily a bad idea to bust out See Invis. I just didn't get a chance to use it. :-) I might switch out one of the rime frostbites for a shocking grasp for a little more burst damage to put someone down faster. Have you considered getting a double crossbow? Truestrike and snipe someone for 2d8 at range is pretty decent, IMO. And gets around crane style monks and the like.

[Gin Kyomaru]

Oh I have Many ways around Style Monks For Example.. I have Hand of the Apprentice + True Strike or use my scroll of invisibility and strike them FF. Or Use my Bow. Heck I have my blade as my Arcane Bond and about 10 spells in my spellbook ... And the entire time I had Magic Missle Prepped but I pretty much guessed you were similar to me and probably cast Shield. I will agree with the shocking grasp.. so that you have multiple energy types to do damage.

[GM Choon]

As to the Shawl of Life-Keeping, it actually requires you to expend 10 HP to be regained later. I don't see where that sacrifice happend. If I missed it I'm sorry.
Also, mbauers is right about non-lethal. It is not tracked with lethal. They are a seperate pool that reference each other. Therefore, Gin was never at -1 HP. I know it doesn't matter much, but there ya go.

[Gin Kyomaru]

The Shawl last's 24 Hours and thus is under the clause for prebuff use.. and consumable's below 5% are refunded.. So I use a scroll of infernal healing for 25 gold and it fills it up. As I said if it really came down to it, we both had alternate movesets for whatever worked. I apologize then.

[GM Choon]

That is a good point. I must have missed that in my reading. Well done on that then. I stand corrected.

[Gin Kyomaru]

No problem, With this practice match we got alot of stuff out of the way and some things cleared up. I appreciate your GMing Choon