This isn't a new race or anything; I'm just inserting an idea. Both the 3.5 and Pathfinder rules agree that sorcerers are simply people born with an innate talent for magic. Therefore, shouldn't this really be a race?
Why would a person with talent for magic be a class in itself? Are [u]rangers[/u] born with an animal companion by their side? Are all monks raised in a monastery?
I don't know how to fix this (yes, I am saying there is a problem. A logical problem). But I think it should be at least open to discussion. Here are my suggestions:
- Sorcerers are like half-something templates, in that they replace some racial traits with their own.
- No matter what class they choose, the sorcerer should have some access to magic. It could be as simple as a cantrip.
- Sorcerers should (obviously) have bonuses to their magic.
- Some kind of penalty to offset these changes. Maybe have them get something like a curse, like the oracle, or maybe have them pick a stat they have to suck in, like the opposite of a human's +2 bonus.
- Alternatively, make them slightly overpowered. It's just for fun, after all.
- To keep some vestige of the original class, why not have them be able to substitute Cha for Int/Wis for caster classes?
- Spontaneous casting: No idea.
How's it look?
A Sorcerer is born with innate magical abilities. It's in their blood. Does that make them a race? no. The reason they are Sorcerers(the class) is that they discovered that ability within themselves and learned how to utilize it. Doing that takes time and practice and they get progressively better at it. (<- leveling)
I had a GM that had a rule for his scorcerers. I rather enjoyed it and it made people play much smarter. When you say that you want to play a sorcerer the GM picks your bloodline and the spells you recieve. His reasoning is you can't really pick what your ancestor fooled around with to get you your bloodline. And the way he described spells for a sorcerer is the spells you know were ancient spells that your ancestor knew, that know exist in your blood.
I was the only sorcerer after that point. I thought it was a cool idea.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I had a GM that had a rule for his scorcerers. I rather enjoyed it and it made people play much smarter. When you say that you want to play a sorcerer the GM picks your bloodline and the spells you recieve. His reasoning is you can't really pick what your ancestor fooled around with to get you your bloodline. And the way he described spells for a sorcerer is the spells you know were ancient spells that your ancestor knew, that know exist in your blood.
I was the only sorcerer after that point. I thought it was a cool idea.
That sounds awful. Sorcerer is one of my favorite classes to play and that.. well wizards already have a huge advantage over them. That just makes things much worse.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yes, they should be a class, as should be the other spontaneous caster classes.
This rule would be like saying Vincent Van Gogh wouldn't be human he'd be a member of the Artist race, sorcerers aren't their own race they are just people born with a natural talent that they have dedicated their life to mastering
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I had a GM that had a rule for his scorcerers. I rather enjoyed it and it made people play much smarter. When you say that you want to play a sorcerer the GM picks your bloodline and the spells you recieve. His reasoning is you can't really pick what your ancestor fooled around with to get you your bloodline. And the way he described spells for a sorcerer is the spells you know were ancient spells that your ancestor knew, that know exist in your blood.
I was the only sorcerer after that point. I thought it was a cool idea.
Did your GM also pick your race, hair, skin and eye colour, your height, base attributes and alignment and write your backstory for you, because the character can't really choose into what race and culture he is born, where his genetics come from and how he is raised?
That seems like a really bad reasoning to stifle a player's choices in character building.
They are people born with magical talent the same way a bard is born with a talent for music. They still gain ability and experience in it as they progress and get better. It makes perfect sense as a class, and is among my favorites. Its like saying oracle should be a race, because its a person whom the gods look favorably on. There are many humans, some humans are sorcerors, just like some humans are very book smart, or some humans can jump really high, it doesnt make them a separate race, just naturally inclined to something that they still have to cultivate to be good at
|
while I agree that logically, one who would be a sorsceror should have some latent arcane power even if they chose to ignore it and train their martial powers, developing them is how they are a class
but that's why they have the feats that grant the bloodline powers, the people who don't develop their bloodline but have one anyway
alternatavly you could treat them as 2e treated spellfire channeler, esentially you gsualt them, they have to split their XP between the two classes and lvl up that way, but the way the multyclass rules have changed since then makes that a very unappealing option
If you're going to actually make changes to the system, it's important to take off your "immersion" hat and put on your "system mechanics" goggles instead -- in other words, forget about the fluff, and what "makes sense" based on the description, and instead look at the bare mathematical underpinnings of how the game actually functions.
Of course you don't want to do that while playing, because it's more fun if the mechanical parts are sort of hidden. But if you're going to actually fiddle with the gears, you need to see them.
Looked at through the spectrum of mechanics goggles, a "race" is nothing more than a set of minor initial abilities and disadvantages, that don't scale with experience; they represent minor variations in your starting state. Conversely, a "class" is nothing more than a bundle of features (BAB, saves, special abilities, etc.) that DO scale with experience. Looked at through this lens, "sorcerer" is most definitely a class, not a race, which is why it's set up that way.
Taking off our mechanics goggles and putting back on your immersion hat, you can pretend that sorcerers have racial characteristics that make them slightly different from the "normal" members of their race. But keep that firmly in the realm of "fluff," and don't try to use that to alter the mechanics.
If you can't shift views back and forth like this, I'd strongly recommend against making any mechanical alterations to the system.
I had a GM that had a rule for his scorcerers. I rather enjoyed it and it made people play much smarter. When you say that you want to play a sorcerer the GM picks your bloodline and the spells you recieve. His reasoning is you can't really pick what your ancestor fooled around with to get you your bloodline. And the way he described spells for a sorcerer is the spells you know were ancient spells that your ancestor knew, that know exist in your blood.
That sounds awful. Sorcerer is one of my favorite classes to play and that.. well wizards already have a huge advantage over them. That just makes things much worse.
Did your GM also pick your race, hair, skin and eye colour, your height, base attributes and alignment and write your backstory for you, because the character can't really choose into what race and culture he is born, where his genetics come from and how he is raised?
That seems like a really bad reasoning to stifle a player's choices in character building.
Yeah, have to agree with these two.
I was the only sorcerer after that point. I thought it was a cool idea.
There's a reason for that. You might be willing to turn over a major point of your character's design, capabilities, and stories to the GM to run without your input, but 99% of players aren't cool with that.
@OP: What pretty much everyone else said. Yes sorcerers should still be their own class. Innate talent does not necessarily mean you WILL become X Y or Z. There's probably a bunch of people in the average fantasy world with a trace of potential sorcerous bloodlines who never tap into it at all, and a smaller number who only do so sparsely (Eldritch Heritage feats), and then there are the sorcerers who learn of their bloodline (or at least start developing talent with it) and focus on it, nurture it, and develop it to the point where they can take a sorcerer class level.
I had a GM that had a rule for his scorcerers. I rather enjoyed it and it made people play much smarter. When you say that you want to play a sorcerer the GM picks your bloodline and the spells you recieve. His reasoning is you can't really pick what your ancestor fooled around with to get you your bloodline. And the way he described spells for a sorcerer is the spells you know were ancient spells that your ancestor knew, that know exist in your blood.
I was the only sorcerer after that point. I thought it was a cool idea.
Sounds like fun if you have trustworthy, creative DM. Otherwise, holy-hell does that sound painful.
Having your bloodline revealed to you in-game sounds like it could be fun if it's done right. If you're couching your DM and providing suggestions, then it's probably better just to decide the bloodline and spells for yourself (as you said, the whole thing is rendered pointless if you're telling him what you want/expect).
The real appeal, I think, is that your bloodline is as much a surprise to the you, the player, as it is to your character. This would allow you to play through the experience in a more organic fashion, without the need for metagame.
On the other hand, I'm completely and utterly opposed to rolling/referencing tables to decide what you're going to play. The less randomness, the better (in my opinion).
If you want to apply Sorcerer stuff to a race, there's the Eldritch Heritage Feats for that.
I would never choose a player's spells for them because (in addition to the simple let-them-have-fun reasons) the sorcerer is only born with this raw access to magical power, how he learns to channel it depends on his own journey. I think the bloodline powers express the source of the innate power enough.
Randomly determining bloodline sounds like it could be fun, but only for players that like being dealt random cards and working with what they have, like waterfalled stats.
It's kind of a cool idea, but I don't think it works in PF or for the Sorcerer.
True, it'd be a stretch.