davidernst11 |
I have been running a group of friends from work, who are all Game of Thrones fans, through some adventure modules. We have run through Crypt of the Everflame, Masks of the Living God, and we are halfway through The Midnight Mirror.
We have taken a few months off, so I would like to start over with new characters, in a new setting. I want to choose an AP that satisfies the following criteria:
(a) the setting, style, or story should somehow resemble Game of Thrones. I want something that feels medieval in nature.
(b) the AP should have consistent, satisfying combats. I am running the game for new players, who have very little experience with RPGs. I know APs can tend to have lots of role play and investigation, sometimes to the point where they can have no battles within an entire session of game play. A game that has a lot of action right off the bat would be ideal. The group likes role play, but they are new enough that they want to fight, just to learn the rules if nothing else.
I've played/run through Carrion Crown, and am about to start Shattered Star as a player. I own the first book of Kingmaker, as well as the full books of Rise of the Runelords and Shackled City, but am not familiar with all of those.
I think the third book of Carrion would be great for this group, but not the first or second. The first one is too much about undead, and the second has far too much investigation and role play compared to combats. The setting and werewolf plot of the third book would be great to run through, so I'd love to find something like that for first level characters.
Shaun Hocking Contributor |
Kingmaker.
The political situation in Brevoy sets up the adventure path, and those politics, I believe, were inspired by Game of Thrones. I'm sure I read that somewhere, probably in the Kingmaker forums. The AP doesn't really touch on the alliances and disagreements of the prominent families of Brevoy, but when I ran it for my players I really ramped up the political machinations of the Surtovas (who I used as the de facto Lannisters).
Building your own kingdom, dealing with threats to your growing realm, and eventually fighting massed battles and deposing a king all sound pretty Game of Thrones to me.
During the campaign, some of my players starting getting involved 'off-screen' with the politics back in Brevoy, even marrying off their relatives to strengthen connections with powerful families who opposed the Surtovas. Essentially, the Game of Thrones style background manipulations and betrayals can be catered for away from the table since not everyone might enjoy spending a long time on that kind of stuff.
I introduced an NPC who was the rightful heir to the throne of Brevoy who was sent with the PCs to take charge of 'their' kingdom. In fact he was just a spoilt kid who came to realise he knew nothing, was pretty useless at ruling, and had probably been sent into the boonies by his relatives in the hopes that he'd get killed. The players hated (HATED) him at first, but as the campaign went on and they grew to understand him and why he had been sent with them, they came to feel sorry for him. Then I had him killed on a hunting trip - sound familiar? Heheh.
So, yeah, Kingmaker is set up perfectly for a Game of Thrones style game, and there's plenty of scope for you as GM to make it even more Game of Thrones-y than it already is.
GM_Solspiral RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
davidernst11 |
Well that certainly seems to make up my mind. Kingmaker seems to be the answer. I've already started writing out my own version of a "Kingmaker Player's Guide", just so I can generalize the concepts and rules to new players.
My only concern is: do you think Kingmaker will be easy to pick up and remain interested in for players that are very new to Pathfinder and tabletop RPGs in general. Its sandbox nature makes it sound like it might be complex and longwinded in nature. Is it pretty easy to pick up as a player?
GM_Beernorg |
As I am currently playing in a KM game, run by our very talented and eloquent GM_solspiral, I would say yes. I strongly suspect the most work is on the GM's part. Think the trick here is get them invested in politics and kingdom building early on, a good story hook makes getting new players into the game much easier. You were right to do your own players guide as well, I think with enough planning and some quality sitdown and discuss time with your players about their backgrounds and motivations that things should go quite well.
magnuskn |
Kingmaker actually is the wrong AP (if taken as written (<-emphasis mine)), contrary to what people say here. While it starts in Brevoy, it has absolutely nothing to do with that nations politics.
Of course nothing stops you from disregarding the later parts of the AP and start to get involved heavily in Brevoy politics with your new nation. But the closest as RAW Kingmaker gets to serious politics is the tournament of King Irovetti.
GM_Beernorg |
There are many very good KM enhancements and mods that have been made by many good GM, and they are available for free. Mag has a point that as written it leaves a bit to be desired. However as I said earlier, playing in a heavily mod'd KM game with expanded kingdom building an political scope. Would still stay such a game could easily be very much turned into a Game of Thrones style adventure.
Lee Hanna |
Kingmaker actually is the wrong AP (if taken as written (<-emphasis mine)), contrary to what people say here. While it starts in Brevoy, it has absolutely nothing to do with that nations politics.
Of course nothing stops you from disregarding the later parts of the AP and start to get involved heavily in Brevoy politics with your new nation. But the closest as RAW Kingmaker gets to serious politics is the tournament of King Irovetti.
THIS. I'm running it now (finally), and I'm having to add any political elements to it myself.
KM is very much in line with the old "clear some area, develop the land, rule a kingdom and defend it from invaders" concept.
GM_Beernorg |
I would pose that if you to run KM, book one seems to be the hardest to integrate as written. Another GM started the AP for us, and bailed out after book one as GM because there was to much for him to handle, so he said. Thus my good bud GM_solspiral took over the KM AP and made it his own, and it has been a KILLER game since the beginning of book 2. He has also posted some great info on the boards, under the rivers run redder thread (a chronicle of many of his personal changes, and of the parties doings, funny threat that) and expanded kingdom building rules and politics. These threads do have allot of great stuff to help your thinking David. I will admit that book one felt very pelmel. We just sort of ran around the local sandbox and things happened as we triggered them. It was not unlikable, but if a Game of Thrones vibe is the desired flavor, then perhaps narrowing the scope of book one might be helpful. If it were me, I would pick out the parts of book one that I liked or that fit the flavor, and expand them, while cutting down on some of the encounters and themes that didn't seem to fit what I was going for. Hope that helps, good luck and enjoy!
davidernst11 |
I suppose the politics of the setting can be secondary. I just want to have a story that could seem like it could take place within a similar world as Game of Thrones. The main reason my work friends wanted to start playing D&D/Pathfinder was because of Game of Thrones, and a lesser extent, Lord of the Rings, so I don't want them coming in fighting only haunts and ghosts and werewolves with gunslingers and ninjas fighting with them. I want a mostly pared down medieval/fantasy setting with a little bit of emphasis on nobility and power struggle in the kingdom.
That said, if I could qualify one family as the Lannisters of the region, I could probably get the players into the story a lot more quickly, getting them to roleplay and investigate more readily.
My player's guide is primarily about creating a character for the setting, but I will try to incorporate more of the setting into it. I do like the traits that associate the players with a certain noble family in the region. Do these families ever get incorporated with the main story?
magnuskn |
Well, maybe you should homebrew something in Brevoy, then, instead of running Kingmaker. The first module of Kingmaker has the Brevoy gazeteer. House Surtova are taking more or less the place of the Lannisters in the setting.
MC Templar |
Well, maybe you should homebrew something in Brevoy, then, instead of running Kingmaker. The first module of Kingmaker has the Brevoy gazeteer. House Surtova are taking more or less the place of the Lannisters in the setting.
This is probably the best option.
Your best bet is to sit down, homebrew up additional houses in Brevoy, decide where each stands in the politics of the country, decide which of the power players are clever, ambitious, or backstabbing, and finally make a story unfold where the PCs simply can not ride directly up and try to defeat their 'enemy'.
Make sure they are never sure who is pulling who's strings, and that there are social repercussions for accusing people of things you can not prove. Make the 'intrigue' a tangible part of each story line.
GM_Solspiral RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
I'll point out a few things...
1) Kingmaker is close enough to Brevoy for the politics to spill over.
2) Pcs get their own kingdom and there's kingdom building rules and a leadership council built in.
3) Mass combat rules
4) Kingmaker forums are frakin' stuffed with DMs that do useful mods many of who are politically minded when making the mods and there are thousands of posts to steal from.
If not running the Kingmaker AP I'd still pick up KM 1 for the political stuff in Brevoy, KM 2 for the kingdom building rules (again though mods and expansions on this all over KM forums), and KM 5 for mass combat rules that involve raising an army compatable with rules from book 2.
That's already basically buying 1/2 the AP why not just run it and mod it.
that's my 2 pennies.
Bellona |
What about Curse of the Crimson Throne? Granted, it's 3.5 so some conversion is needed (and probably available). It includes some dirty politics in a city with a more and more tyrannical ruler. If the book 4 and 5 detours outside of the city don't appeal, I'm sure that some GM in the CotCT forum has some alternative suggestions.
GM_Beernorg |
I will mention there is a GoT RPG, it seemed decent, but differs greatly from PF or 3.5. Could always use some of its material, but home brew/cut and paste in out what you want. That would be allot of work I suspect, but may pay off in the end. Also, if its monsters you want to avoid, to keep the GoT vibe strong, if you used KM then I would just play up the Stag Lord, the Sword Lords, and other important human NPC in the game, and sub out monsters with humans.
Timothy Hanson |
Cheliax seems very Game of Thrones like with House Thune being the Lannisters in that reference. I have only played through the first two books, but CoT seems to have some political undertones as well, and sort of a secret group running things from behind the scenes. From that you would be playing more from the perspective of the Lightning Lord, but it is a loose fit. I will admit I have not read Kingmaker has I hope to play in it one day.
The Slumbering Tsar is suppose to be really hard, and kill a lot of people, so on that level it is very much like GoT. Way of the Wicked might be a good fit too, since most people in GoT are not very nice, but someone else who has read it would have to comment on that.
Out of curiosity is it the Books or the TV show from which they are most interested in?