I think that 2/3 to 3/4s of the creatures in Arcadia should be either entirely new or extremely different from their Eastern counterparts. MMC Jawa's list proves that that could very easily be done. One think I hope happens is that, when there is a similar creature in the Old World, but the archetype appears in American folklore as well, we use the American version in Arcadia. I.E. Rogarou instead of Werewolf, Fsti Capcaki instead of Yeti, Tsanahale instead of Harpy, Inzignanin instead of Troglodyte, etc.
I think Arcadia should be interpreted the same way as Tian Xia, with amount of overlap of races and monsters. Granted, we don't have a ton of Tian Xia information, but the races are mostly novel and the major mentioned monsters (Other than Hobgoblins) seem to be of Asian origin
As far races go I think some anthropomorphized animals could be a cool idea. By mirroring some races from native animals, of North America at least, some interesting dynamics could be put in place. The cultures of Arcadia could be as unique as they are because of their particular circumstances.
For instance, a migratory race of sentient bird-people could be responsible for trading material goods from distant areas that would never have interacted otherwise. By traveling their yearly flyway they trade goods amongst many different cultures.
A hooved, herbivorous race could be responsible for spreading crops like maize, beans and squash across the continent. Maybe they originated from a plains area and could resemble buffalo or pronghorns.
These cultures may look technologically primitive by Avistani standards, but their minimal use of technology is bolstered by their advanced magics.
Sorry I've been out all week. Visiting lady friend in Ft Lauderdale, so haven't had time to dedicate to this. Luckily, I have finished the Onza, which is the Mexican cryptid. It was easy to make, but the hardest part was actually naming it. I had to choose between onza (modern name and easier to pronounce) or cuitlamiztli (more legitimate name but harder to pronounce). I decided to go with the onza, but I made the cuitlamiztli a larger, advanced version of the creature (giant and advanced templates). As per usual, the document in the original post has been updated for easy access. Enjoy!
As far races go I think some anthropomorphized animals could be a cool idea. By mirroring some races from native animals, of North America at least, some interesting dynamics could be put in place. The cultures of Arcadia could be as unique as they are because of their particular circumstances.
For instance, a migratory race of sentient bird-people could be responsible for trading material goods from distant areas that would never have interacted otherwise. By traveling their yearly flyway they trade goods amongst many different cultures.
A hooved, herbivorous race could be responsible for spreading crops like maize, beans and squash across the continent. Maybe they originated from a plains area and could resemble buffalo or pronghorns.
These cultures may look technologically primitive by Avistani standards, but their minimal use of technology is bolstered by their advanced magics.
Golarion does have the owl people (Syrinx?) so that's a start. Skinwalkers are also from Arcadia. In my setting, I made Lizardfolk into a race and I also created a race descended from zemi, which are kami-like nature spirits of Taino folklore.
Have they said what races(other then human) of the core 7 are the most common in Arcadia?
I like the idea of syrinx and skinwalkers being "core races" for Arcadia, Just like catfolk are for Garundi and kitsune are for Tian Xia.
We haven't and likely won't until we do an Arcadia book.Have they said what races(other then human) of the core 7 are the most common in Arcadia?
I shall await that then!
Also, you guys are totally allowed to abscond with the monsters we create here. Definitely don't mind seeing our work in print :D
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If I recall correctly, pretty much every monster mentioned in this thread have been from folklore, so we're essentially fishing from the same harbor. I wouldn't be surprised if things end up looking a bit different, however. There certainly have been some discussions here that made me change some of my notes or revisit ideas I previously had, and I greatly appreciate that there are knowledgeable folks here with as much passion about the subject as I have.
No problem. This is definitely a subject I still constantly research about since I run a campaign based on all of this. So if you ever need inspiration, you've got the power of the interwebs here :D
If there ever came a Arcadia/Native American based AP (and I really hope it will be soon after IRon Gods) then I hope to see the following Native American/Inuit/South American creatures in the bestiaries/Product:
Acheri / Agloolik / Ahkiyyini / Aipalookvik / Alicanto / Amhuluk / Amikuk / Aniwye / Argopelter / Atosis / Bakru / Binaye-Ahani / Cactus Cat / Cadejo / Cherufe / Djieien / El Cuero / Encantado / Ewah / Gaasyendietha / Haakapainzi / Haeitlik / Hidebehind / Lechusa (would have been so much better as Owl-Folk) / Mahaha / Mapinguari / Minhacao / Nalusa Falaya / Piasa / Pua Tu Tahi / Paiyuk / Siguanaba / Splinter Cat / Tsemaus / Uktena / Yeitso
Well Hopefully Syrinx and Skinwalkers will part of Arcadia's core 7 races.
Syrinx are generally lawful evil. They probably fit into Arcadia in the same way that goblins and orcs do within Golarion. A 0 HD race that are not intended for PCs
I like the idea of syrinx and skinwalkers being "core races" for Arcadia, Just like catfolk are for Garundi and kitsune are for Tian Xia.
I wouldn't mind seeing catfolk as one of the core Arcadians, myself, as there is certainly a precedent for cat-headed people iconography among Native American cultures, particularly Mesoamerica and South America (chiefly Incan).
The raven-like Tengu might be cool as well, although- with both races- I could understand if Paizo decided they wanted to have some more unique "core" groups rather than reuse some of the others. Particular breeds of Skinwalkers, for instance, could cover both bases.
Tengu need more names for their local populations. I recall Kobold Press's Midgard setting has them called "huginn" in Norse areas.
Catfolk are one of the major races in Garund, southern Tian Xia, but more then likely not in Arcadia.
Tengu need more names for their local populations. I recall Kobold Press's Midgard setting has them called "huginn" in Norse areas.
I'd have made them "garuda" in Vudra, but that ship has sailed.
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Tengu need more names for their local populations. I recall Kobold Press's Midgard setting has them called "huginn" in Norse areas.I'd have made them "garuda" in Vudra, but that ship has sailed.
Well, Garuda are hawk- or eagle-people in South Asian legend, not crows. Crows are associated with uncleanliness and bad stuff in that region's folklore, though sometimes in Southern India they are fed as representatives of the hungry dead and ghosts. They are connected symbolically with Yama, god of the Dead. So, personally, while I think they belong in Arcadia, they certainly don't occupy the same symbolic space as the Garuda, which, moreover, is a flying creature.
Well...they could always stat up a 0HD garuda race and use the term Suparnas for them, to differentiate from the outsider race. Although with vanaras and Vishkanyas as 0HD races already, I doubt we will get another race inspired by Indian mythology for Casmaron
Catfolk in arcadia makes sense tho as the native americans had the puma-like Ewah
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Well...they could always stat up a 0HD garuda race and use the term Suparnas for them, to differentiate from the outsider race. Although with vanaras and Vishkanyas as 0HD races already, I doubt we will get another race inspired by Indian mythology for Casmaron
Who knows? There's a lot of them in the mythology. The Vidyadharas are possibly 0-HD. The main problem with 0-HD Garudas is that flying races are hard to justify as 0-HD. They make things a lot harder for the GM.
I called Tengu Karavas in my South Asian setting.
Well...they could always stat up a 0HD garuda race and use the term Suparnas for them, to differentiate from the outsider race. Although with vanaras and Vishkanyas as 0HD races already, I doubt we will get another race inspired by Indian mythology for CasmaronWho knows? There's a lot of them in the mythology. The Vidyadharas are possibly 0-HD. The main problem with 0-HD Garudas is that flying races are hard to justify as 0-HD. They make things a lot harder for the GM.
I called Tengu Karavas in my South Asian setting.
Oh there are, but Casmaron isn't just Vudra, but also Greece, Russia, Central Asia, Persia, and the rest of the Middle-east. If they restrict themselves to 7 "core" races, than it seems likely that they might pull from those other cultures for the remaining 3-4 races
I think there is a good chance of getting another race inspired by Indian Myth when we see stuff for Casmaron/Vudra.
I'd be surprised if samsarans weren't a "core" Casmaron race. If anything, they belong in Vudra more than Tian Xia.
I'd be surprised if samsarans weren't a "core" Casmaron race. If anything, they belong in Vudra more than Tian Xia.
James Jacobs has said that he'd like them to be one, fwiw. Along with Vishkanyas and Vanaras (and humans).
I kind of like the idea of Nagaji for a Vudra race (because Nagas seem more Vudran than Tian-Xian to me), but that doesn't seem likely.
Back on topic, I think we can agree that at the very least, we'll probably see for Arcadia:
Humans
Skinwalkers
With anything else being kind of up for grabs at this point. I think there is some (small) rationale for one of the shorter races- halflings or dwarves or gnomes- given the myths of "little people" in NA lore (such as pukwudgies, ishigaq, and nirumbee, among others). I think gnomes would be a better fit- given their First World connections and a more general sense of closeness to the natural world that is associated with NA cultures.
I could also see adding a second "small" race- such as dwarves- who could easily have come to Arcadia after their emigration from the Darklands (they just took a different route from the Inner Sea dwarves). Their emergence into the Upper World also fits in with the concept of emergence from an underworld to the surface that is prominent in many Native American creation stories (Hopi, Aztec, Inca, among others).
Back to the Nagaji, they might be an interesting addition, given the snake iconography among many native cultural myths. Vanara, too, could be a possibility, as they tend to resemble New World monkeys more than Old World apes. The Syrinx have been mentioned, but it seems to me more likely that the Strix would be a player race before the evil owl-folk (and at the very least, I expect we might see some development of the Strix' flight to the Inner Sea and the origins of their hatred for humans).
Aside from that, it's all speculation. For me, I wouldn't mind:
Humans
Gnomes
Skinwalkers
Catfolk
Tengu
Nagaji
and a new race or two (one to replace one of the others here).
Maybe re-skin kitsune as coyote people?
My preferences for 'core Arcadian races:
Humans
Skinwalkers
Catfolk
Syrinx
And for two new ones: Coyote-people and an 'earthen' people akin to Oreads but not quite. More fleshy, but still rocky...
My preference:
Humans
Skinwalkers
Strix
Gnomes or Dwarves
Three brand new races
I think the best way to do races is to make a race based on a different facet of native culture. Maybe one on Northern and Southern North America, one on Central America/Caribbean, and one on Northern and Southern South America.
In my settings, I did include gnomes in as base races because of the concept of short people in folklore across the Americas. I also made a race descended from zemi, which are spirits of the Taino folklore that are similar to kami. I'm unsure if I like them, since they aren't really based on folklore, but we shall see.
I did think about having douen as the halfling-esque race, but I was on the fence since they could also make great monsters.
Unrelated, but what do people think of the Onza? I was worried that giving something with Diehard would be too good for CR 2. Unsure, might drop the Con score a bit.
Speaking of newer races, I could get behind a doglike/coyotelike race. It would be cool to see a Paizo Lupin race, although despite my fondness for the lupins, I would almost prefer to see them get away from something quite so "animal-head human" and do something a little more out of the box.
Catfolk would make a great addition to the core races of Arcadia, based off of the cougar and the jaguar. The cougar-race would be a solid fixture in the list of races, especially when you look at the historically sweeping range of the cougar itself on both continents of the Americas. Also, reskinning it as a Jaguar would work great because of the jaguar's place in South and Central American folklore.
Drawing off of Odraude's idea, if we wanted a race to represent North America a lupine inspired one could prove to be a solid choice. Covering South America, a race based off of the Jaguar could work, but it would essentially be adapted from the preexisting Cattfolk stats.
Maybe going wild with it would be better? Why not include Tapir and Wolverine inspired races to the core set?!
Would be cool, though I don't know if all the races should be anthropomorphic. I'd like to see a race descended from the cuoatl for a Central American themed race. I feel Skinwalkers would be the North American themed race.
Looking at the races of Tian Xia, they have a total of five races added, not including the humans and aasimar that naturally live there, as well as the elves that moved in. Kitsune, tengu, wayang, nagaji, and samsaran. So I'd say we could certain add five races. Four I suppose, since skinwalkers are already confirmed as a race.
A bump. I've been out for the last month, getting things ready for a big move and return to school. Should be great, but it'll sadly leave me with less time for Pathfinder.
A little bump. I wanna try and get some ideas corralled in the coming days. Just busy with work for a little while long.
Saw this in the bookstore yesterday. Never read any of the author's work, but could make good inspirational reading
Interesting. Definitely good to see more about that city. I've been wanting to read up on it more since it sounds pretty amazing.
Dotting to read.
My posting of late has been erratic due to some life changes. Moving to Ft Lauderdale in August to go to culinary school down there. Decided to become a chef over becoming a freelancer. Still, I want to be involved in the RPG industry in some way, even if it's just tossing ideas out here.
Also at some point in the near future, I'm going to be posting more stuff for the setting that I run. That includes monsters, maps, and other setting stuff I've had a hand in.
I hope your move goes smoothly, nothing gets damaged or lost, and you can settle in quickly and enjoy your job.
Thanks. It'll be three years before I can be a chef. Going to Le Cordon Bleu down there. Still, I'm going to need a job to support myself and my partner. Moving in with my girlfriend, so I want to be able to contribute to the household.
Saw this in the bookstore yesterday. Never read any of the author's work, but could make good inspirational reading
I've read several of the "People of" books by the Gears. They definitely do their research and know their cultures, though the stories themselves tend to be somewhat the same from book to book, at least insofar as I've read (I think I've read three, and have two that I haven't yet read).
Definitely good sources for inspiration though, if not necessarily entertainment. I'll be curious to see what you think.
IIRC George Washington saw Green skinned men jumping out of a glowing green hovering pod at valley forge.
Could they be the Sky men of Macchu Picchu?
and I believe the iroquois creation myth tells of how all were descended from a woman who fell from the sky...perhaps a crash survivor?
Do we have any monstrous humanoid tribes that would take the place of goblins/Orcs/Hobgoblins, etc.?
There are decent numbers of ogre and goblin-like creatures in NA myth, so I would assume yes
Just found an article about Birch bark scrolls. This sounds like arcane scrolls, just copied onto a different medium. It seems that Arcadia need not have an entirely different form of Magic, after all, jusdt culturally different as they could only be accessed by Medicine men.
Cliff-dwellings and kivas, build under overhangs or underground not to protect from ground-based rival tribes, but to provide shelter from Syrinx attacks from the air.
Also protects from body-snatching by gray aliens, but they don't come that far north, thanks to the Nazca lines.
That would be interesting. I'd really love to see a society like that really shine with earth magic of some type. Or even air magic, practicing it on the high cliff-sides and rock towers you'd see in the South Western deserts of the USA.
Just found an article about Birch bark scrolls. This sounds like arcane scrolls, just copied onto a different medium. It seems that Arcadia need not have an entirely different form of Magic, after all, jusdt culturally different as they could only be accessed by Medicine men.
That's actually really interesting. I've always liked the idea of alternate ways of doing spell books using Native American ideas and this would fit perfectly! I may have to steal use this in my setting ;)