Run into a bit of a corner case and just want to clarify things for my players. What's the general stance on persistant spell affects and how they affect invisibility?
Say a player casts a spell such as Spiritual Weapon or Cloud Kill, both effects that would attack/break Invisibility when cast at a creature. Now here's the part where things get tricky: If the casters casts Invisibility afterwards, do the subsequent damage/attacks break invisibility?
For reference:
The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. Exactly who is a foe depends on the invisible character's perceptions. Actions directed at unattended objects do not break the spell. Causing harm indirectly is not an attack. Thus, an invisible being can open doors, talk, eat, climb stairs, summon monsters and have them attack, cut the ropes holding a rope bridge while enemies are on the bridge, remotely trigger traps, open a portcullis to release attack dogs, and so forth. If the subject attacks directly, however, it immediately becomes visible along with all its gear.
It's clear that the effects that are created do harm and would be considered "attacks" but the problem is the casters not making them while cast. So:
1) In the case of Spirtual Weapon, would it be akin to a summoned monster, and considered an indirect attack & thus safe?
2) Would directing it to a new target as a move action, break his invisbility?
3) In the case of cloud kill: Would the fact the cloud moves of it's own volition(10ft a round, preset direction) into enemies cause it to break invisibility?
4) Would any effect cast BEFORE the caster cast invisibility later go on to cause an "attack" that would break invisibility?
My own opinion on the questions:
1)Spiritual Weapon creates an effect. It is not targeted and does not effect and area. It is not an attack/does not break invisibility. Basically the same as summoning a monster.
2)No. The effect is causing the damage, not you directly. It is the same as a summoned monster.
3)This is an area affect spell. As long as no enemies were in it when initially cast, I would not consider it as attack should an enemy end up in the area due to "drift," because it was not an attack when you actually took the action (cast the spell).
4)Given the amount of spells out there, its hard for me to give a definite No, but I can't think of any circumstances except for something like Contingency where it is cast before, but triggered after.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If he takes an action to control his spell effect (apart from spell effects that are creatures and take their own actions), such that it targets a foe or includes a foe in its area of effect, that action is an attack and breaks invisibility. If he doesn't take an action, most likely he hasn't broken invisibility.
1) Casting spiritual weapon isn't an attack, as long as he doesn't target it on a foe.
2) I would consider this an attack.
3) If he cast the cloudkill before becoming invisible, he's fine. If while invisible, he created a cloudkill moving in a direction that would include a foe already standing there, that's a different matter. It probably wouldn't break invisibility strictly by RAW.
4) It doesn't matter if the spell is cast before or after casting invisibility, only when the action occurs that counts as an attack.
1) Casting spiritual weapon does not break invisibility. Targeting it on an enemy does.
2) See #1
3) Casting it where it will immediately harm enemies breaks invisibility. Afterwards it does not.
4) See other examples. As Starglim said, if any action qualifies as an attack (such as redirecting a spiritual weapon) then it probably breaks invisibility.
- Gauss
|
If you cast an area damaging spell anywhere you are almost certainly attacking some creature. There are almost certainly insects in the area (which are the basis for a swarm). Does that count for breaking invisibility?
If you cast a spell while invisible in a random area and happen to hit another invisible person, that you didn't know was there, does that make you visible? Does it matter if you thought there might be someone there? What if you tried to catch someone in an area affect and missed (guessed wrong location)?
If you cast an area damaging spell anywhere you are almost certainly attacking some creature. There are almost certainly insects in the area (which are the basis for a swarm). Does that count for breaking invisibility?
If you cast a spell while invisible in a random area and happen to hit another invisible person, that you didn't know was there, does that make you visible? Does it matter if you thought there might be someone there? What if you tried to catch someone in an area affect and missed (guessed wrong location)?
A) Mundane insects and such.. Mechanically they don't exist, so they don't have an impact on mechanics. Otherwise, tiny and smaller creatures could almost newer move, since they can't enter the square of a fine creature they aren't allied to.
B) Intention doesn't matter, the action does. Mechanically 'attacking' makes you visible, and hitting an invisible creature with an AoE spell counts as an attack in this regard.
This can lead to a strange situation, where you can use it to narrow in on the position of an invisible enemy, by looking at whether or not yourself become visible.
However it prevents abuse along the line of "But, I couldn't really be sure anyone was there, so I'm still invisible..."
A) Mundane insects and such.. Mechanically they don't exist, so they don't have an impact on mechanics. Otherwise, tiny and smaller creatures could almost newer move, since they can't enter the square of a fine creature they aren't allied to"
Um. Two opponents that are fine sized can enter the same squares with no problem.