PFS: Getting Players to GM. Finding new GM's. Always a chore. Solutions?


GM Discussion

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Gents,

As a store owner, I want people in here, playing PFS at my tables. And it's been a success. It's easy when you're a big fan of Pathfinder to pump it to every rpger out there.

The problem has arisen, however, that we can't find other GM's aside from our Venture Captain. Players want to play, no one wants to GM. Usually it's because the ones who DO GM, already are and don't want to take on more.

Solutions? How have other store owners and V-C's solved this in the past and in their own stores? I offer good discounts and perks to anyone willing. Still, hard to find them. I've had to GM a game, an as the owner of a busy store it's not something I can always do. Easy to find players though! :)

One solution is to do alternating weeks for groups, do one table a week, the same table every other week. I've heard of other stores and GM's doing this to solve it. My V-C sure can't run two tables at once, and we sure can't run tables of 8+

Thanks for the help and advice in advance!

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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I was able to get one of my players to try GMing the First Steps series after I brought in a couple of guest GMs from another city. I think it can help to break the mindset of "This guy GMs, these guys play." The First Steps is also a good one to get people started with, since it's free and they've probably already played it, so it's familiar too.

You might also consider putting on a small local convention to get some boons, and make sure the players know that if they GM, they automatically get a cool boon that lets them play an exotic race.

And since you're the store owner, you could even offer a small discount on snacks and GMing supplies (maps, initiative trackers, condition cards, etc.) to people on days that they're GMing a PFS game.

The Exchange 5/5

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This has been an ongoing problem in the campaign, and certainly one that continues to plague my region. When I first started PFS it was easy to find GMs since most of the new membership were hardcore RPGA gamers. As the campaign grew it attracted more players who were new to organized play and did not have a tabletop gaming background. Locally we had to rely on a pool of GMs that were getting used again and again to the point of burnout.

Enough moping. Solutions? The best thing to do is to directly approach regular players. They know the rules and how the game flows, they just would rather play. Don't send a group e-mail. They'll ignore it. Address each individually. Put them on the spot. Those who play the most owe the community the most. They don't have to GM every week, if you wrangle enough of them you can schedule them once every couple months and cover your tables.

You will need to schedule scenarios several months in advance. Throwing a scenario at a new GM and telling them they'll need to run it in a couple of days will frighten them off. See if your VC will loan them maps and miniatures also.

The problem is that good players do not always make good GMs. But beggars can't be choosers :) If players feel let down by the new GM, then challenge them to try it themselves.

If players say that they don't feel prepared to GM, organize a GM 101 session. You might need to throw some incentives at them (tell them there will be punch and pie, gamers like punch and pie). Even if you only net a few willing converts, you're still better off than you were when you started.

I think the most important things are to 1) Approach people directly, 2) Publicly praise your volunteers, 3) Plan well ahead, 4) Did I mention approach people directly?.

Good luck!

Edit: Another angle to work is cross-campaign GMs. Do you have any D&D Encounters, Legends of Arcanis, Savage Worlds, Neo-Exodus, etc happening at your store? Approach the GMs for those games and ask if they'll help out with PFS. In exchange, see if your regular GMs will serve those campaigns and give their counterparts a chance to play. This is not a silver bullet for your problems, but it may be something you had not considered. Good GMs don't need to completely understand the rules in order to tell a story.

Silver Crusade 4/5

I agree with all the above.. I also add the following:

If you have a VC in your area that attends, perhaps, it's time to consider having them run a GM 101. In our area, we ran one, and showed all the benefits and helped players understand what it takes to be a PFS GM (which isn't much anyway), and most of the time, it makes developing an area a big difference.

As a result of the GM 101 that I had my VC organize, I have GM's who now not only run our master Wed nights, but now I have GM's willing to run impromptu games, as well as we now plan on opening a second night in the next few months.

Sometimes, it's just taking the time to share and answer people's questions about GMing, that you don't always have time to do when you are wrangling. When you take the time to educate and empower, many times, it takes it's own shape and form.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Doug Miles wrote:


Don't send a group e-mail. They'll ignore it. Address each individually. Put them on the spot. Those who play the most owe the community the most. They don't have to GM every week, if you wrangle enough of them you can schedule them once every couple months and cover your tables.

My groups, is one of the rare groups, where that didn't work. We are very much a community in the full sense of the word. So when we approached privately, it was like we were singling out and giving preference when that wasn't the case. So if you have problems getting the 1 on 1.. Go the GM 101 approach, then you spread the net.

The trick to it, is to do it on a regular game night. Give a night break to those who only want to play, and for those who are considering it, they get GM session credit for showing up (as well as other prizes. I gave away my extra race boon, and that increased attendance!) Those who are interested, get to have quiet time with the leadership away from all the noise of weekly games. Sometimes, that group time can not only build a group for the better, but in the same respect, you share with them your goals for the area and what you want to do as well.


College kids: everybody kicks in for food and pizza for the table, and the GM eats for free. That helps.

Get free stuff: Once a month, I randomly draw a name from my pool of GMs. They get some product, a gift card, whatever, so they can buy more stuff.

Star party: You get a GM star, we throw a party.
1 star = Cookies/cupcakes!
2 star = Cupcake cake!
3 star = Pizza party!

The biggest ones:

Carrot: share your prep. People are generally lazy. If I say "I'll run this scenario, and give you copies of all my prep stuff so you can run it for the next group", people are more likely to help you GM.

Stick: I keep track of who plays. Four player sessions, one GM session (or get somebody else to do it for you).

Those have worked pretty well for me. ^_^

5/5

Robert Duncan wrote:

Carrot: share your prep. People are generally lazy. If I say "I'll run this scenario, and give you copies of all my prep stuff so you can run it for the next group", people are more likely to help you GM.

point them at the shared google drive. Lots of good prep work and ideas; they can use what works for them and they don't have to use what doesn't.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Short answer:
Foster a safe and welcoming community where giving back to the group is a core value.

Long(er) answer:
I have found that by starting out with laying down the concept that people are entering a community of gamers that will grow and prosper and offer more amazing things if every member of that community gives back. If the community allows any members to just take and not give back then the community will suffer and fail in the long term. This plants the seed in people’s minds that table time is not an entitlement but a gift from the larger group. That the time that the GM spends running the game is a contribution to the group. It fosters reciprocity and makes it easier for people to make the jump from player to judging.
Asking people directly to judge for you is the most effective method. Letting them know that you have confidence that they can run a great table, tell a great story, allow people to feel safe in roleplaying, control the pacing of the game and figure out the rules along the way with the help of others is often enough to get them to step up. There is nothing like someone believing in you to inspire you to go beyond your boundaries especially when you know that you will have help and support. It is also a tangible way for them to give back to the larger group.

Now as has been said before, not everyone will make a good GM the first time out of the gate. This is why it is helpful to foster a culture of continual improvement. The best GMs become the best GMs because they learn, they grow, and they take risks. Taking the time to talk through as a group those things that went fine, those things that could be changed next time and reveling in the moments of awesome will help anyone level up as a GM, player and over all community member. It also build a sense of the group of who are we as a local gaming organization.

GMing is not the only way to give back. There are as many ways to help as there are people to think of them.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Play two scenarios, GM one.

If you grasp the rules (and 95% of us should) you should play two games and then GM one. If everyone did this there'd be too many games being run.
Also, I think every player should give a dollar to the GM to ease the costs of buying the scenario. It's not fair for the GM to pay for player enjoyment.

Liberty's Edge 2/5 *

Im fairly new to running Pathfinder Society. After the end of LG and the 'changes' that LFR went through, I felt kinda done with Living campaigns. In fact I had never played a game of Pathfinder before I tried Society for the first time. Now about 8 months on, Im due to run my 6th game soon as I felt I wanted to give something back to the group that lets me get a game in.

I can't really add anything to this apart from : Make sure the gaming environment itself is welcoming. If you are gaming in a hall or community area, make sure that the noise level is acceptable (ie if you are gaming in the same area as Wargamers try and find the quiet zone. If not find somewhere else.) A GM might get frustrated if he has to constantly repeat himself and if he or she (and some of my all time fav gms are female... more needed!)keeps finding this then they might decide its just too difficult.

Dark Archive 4/5

Finding new GMs for me has always been about discovering their comfort zones.

Do they like combat? Show them First Steps pt 2.
Do they like roleplaying? Grab a copy of We Be Goblins!

Making sure that we emphasize that the printed adventure is a framework for the game and that the true focus is on saying 'yes' to your players is another huge point. Most of my current GMs were of the opinion that everything had to be run 'as printed' or it wouldn't work was a huge misconception; I overcame this by buying a prospective GM a drink and having them sit with me for a session - I would run the story stuff, and they ran one of the combats (or all of them). We shared prep prior to the gameday and it's worked out really well.

If all that fails, a rubber hose would work just as well. ;)

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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I run between 16 and 20 tables per month at my store (Enchanted Grounds in Highlands Ranch, Colorado). I announce my entire schedule monthly during the week leading into the month (so April will be announced during the final week of March, etc.). I start out by soliciting for GMs.

This is what I post when I ask for GMs:
Hello, all,

It is that time, again. I’m looking for GMs for next month’s games at Enchanted Grounds in Highlands Ranch. This is not the open call for those games; that will happen next week after I have all the GM spots full. Watch for it then, if you are not going to GM. If you are interested in GMing for me, read on.

First, I would like to outline the benefits of GMing for Enchanted Grounds:

  • I can get you the module for free. If requested, I will provide a physical copy of it, along with faction missions and chronicle sheets. In certain cases, I can get you an electronic copy, but those cases are necessarily rare and must be discussed.
  • You will earn a $10 gift certificate to the store for each game you GM. This helps offset any cost you incur purchasing the scenario or the supplies to run that scenario.
  • You will be given access to the schedule ahead of the general announcement. For each table you GM I will allow you to take a player seat at another table. This seat is guaranteed, as you will be signing up ahead of the open call.
  • If you GM ten games at the store I will give you an Enchanted Grounds Pathfinder t-shirt.
  • As Phil McMahon once said so well, you "get to play an ass-hat that everyone can't stand for the entire night; one that everyone gets the satisfaction of killing at the end of the game." Don't sell that short. It's an invaluable benefit, and one everyone appreciates.
  • All of the inherent benefits of GMing PFS scenarios (character credit, advancement on the GM "star" tier, access to GM boons when made available, etc.).

So, with all that in mind, I would like to ask for GM volunteers for the following dates and scenarios:

Monday, , 6:00 PM:

Saturday, , 9:00 AM:

Saturday, , 2:00 PM:

Monday, , 6:00 PM:

I post the four scenarios I'm going to offer each day, and I will not post an open call for players until I have all the GM spots taken. We charge a mere $2 per player for each game which is what we use to buy the GM gift certificates. Sometimes we end up in the positive. Sometimes we end up in the red. Usually, this balances out. No one ever complains about having to pay $2 for 4+ hours of entertainment.

I have yet to ever have an issue getting hold of GMs for my store's games.

Hope this helps. (-:

5/5

Drogon

That absolutely rocks. You are must run an awesome store.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Drogon...
I want to go to there.

Silver Crusade 2/5

I totally would GM all the time for you Drogon. Plus your shop looks amazing. Coffee shop + gaming = Fantastic! You got any managerial positions open, I manage an upscale cafe =)

1/5

This is the regular issue with a living campaign. It was even worse for Living Greyhawk, were you would lose the chance to get the rewards for a scenario if you ran it before you played it. Fortunately, PFS gets that right. We've had some boons available to GMs who run, too, and that helps. For some, it can be a matter of time, but I think that idea of "run 1, play 2" is a good idea.

-Ben.

Sovereign Court 3/5

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Point system.

You get five points just for existing/joining.

Play one scenario = cost one point.

GM one scenario = get five points.

Its worked well for us.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Matt Savage wrote:

Point system.

You get five points just for existing/joining.

Play one scenario = cost one point.

GM one scenario = get five points.

Its worked well for us.

That's an interesting idea, but how many new players are really ready to GM after playing only five games? I think I might front-load it a little more, such as 15 points to start, and 4 points for GMing.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

I think this is an issue in general for the RPG world... one that has probably gotten worse with the rise of MMPORGs (which really aren't about role-playing). There are people who are willing to GM, and there are people who are not. Additionally, there are some people that are willing to run a game, but just don't quite get it.

Now, for those that are in the final group, I see something like PFS as a great boon. You don't have to write the scenario/module, and they are relatively inexpensive. You are only giving a 4-5 hour time commitment, plus prep time, which can be significant for a first time GM.

I like a lot of what I have seen on this thread; a lot of good ideas here! Personally, I have been GMing games as long as I have been playing them (since 1978 or so), but only very recently have I gotten involved in PFS. At this point, I have played in 11 games, and GMed 2... and I plan to do much more of both.

One thing that I have noticed on the meetups that we use locally is people asking for more games, but seemingly not as willing to volunteer to run them. They see the need, but don't see themselves as a candidate to fulfill the need.

Here's a suggestion that I have, just off the top of my head. Along with the GM 101 sessions, offer first time (or even GMs without their first star) a "prep session" a week or two before they are scheduled to run. Of course this means, as a VO, you'll have to be available (and hopefully not running a game!), but I'd bet that it would be a great boon to new GMs to be able to talk through the scenario with a veteran, just to help understand how the scenarios flow, and how to set up and run the various encounters.

Also, when looking for volunteers, suggest that they run a scenario that they have already played in. The two games that I have run were both scenarios that I played in, which did really help me in preparing (since I already knew the gist of what was going on).

Finally, as a VO helping new GMs (or a veteran GM, or store owner), the best thing you can do is to be available when the rookie is running their first game or two. If they don't have extensive experience, there are going to be times that they are going to "get stuck". A friendly, helping hand at these times will make the experience much more pleasurable for them, and they'll be more likely to try again!


All fantastic ideas that I will definitely be taking advantage of. I definitely like the points system with GMing getting more points then playing. Could easily convert the pts into store credit of some sort.

Keep 'em coming!

5/5

I think it's awesome that we want to get more GMs. There are people out there running games tirelessly and unless we pad the ranks are only going to become burnt out and quit all together.

I would like a add a word of caution however. There are some players that are just simply not meant to be GMs. This is not to say that they are bad people, just that while they may be awesome players, they are probably not going to be the best behind the GM screen.

I would caution anyone who is planning on making a blanket you have to GM if you play to re-think that option

1/5

Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:

I would like a add a word of caution however. There are some players that are just simply not meant to be GMs. This is not to say that they are bad people, just that while they may be awesome players, they are probably not going to be the best behind the GM screen.

I would caution anyone who is planning on making a blanket you have to GM if you play to re-think that option

Agreed (and I've given a similar caution when this topic has come up in the past). While "evolving" from simply being a player to also being a GM is a natural next step for many players, and while some players who will wind up being excellent GMs may need a gentle (or even not so gentle) push to get started at it, there are some players who cannot (or should not) become GMs.

Being a GM who's capable of running a fun game isn't just being a player-plus. It requires a different sort of rules knowledge, which some players don't have (and may not be able to achieve without considerable difficulty). It also requires a certain level of emotional maturity, and no small amount of organizational skills.

There are people with whom I've played Pathfinder and other RPGs for years, who are at least reasonable at the game as players (and who clearly enjoy playing, in that role), but who would very likely be utter train-wrecks as GMs, even with coaching. A system which forced players to eventually be GMs would either (a) drive them away from the game entirely, or (b) lead to entire tables of unhappy players.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Purple Fluffy CatBunnyGnome wrote:


I would like a add a word of caution however. There are some players that are just simply not meant to be GMs. This is not to say that they are bad people, just that while they may be awesome players, they are probably not going to be the best behind the GM screen.

This. We have a problematic person in our area with whom many people do not want to play. He has decided to start running games, and a lot of people don't want to show up for them.

We could use some new GMs in our area as well. Generally there are only 3 of us that run games, and my life has taken a turn for the crazy until April. :(

The Exchange 5/5

+1 to what Mike & PFCBG wrote, I have had this happen in my events.

On the other hand, there are people who I never would have believed could sit in the GM's chair who have done a credible job.

I think that having a great GM can have unexpected consequences. When a GM does an excellent job, it can undermine the confidence of players who might consider trying it themselves. Conversely, if you have a lot of crappy GMs in your area it might motivate players to try it themselves--how much worse could it get? KapowLtd's problem may be that Matthew Fossen is such a great GM that no one thinks they can measure up to him...

5/5

Doug Miles wrote:

On the other hand, there are people who I never would have believed could sit in the GM's chair who have done a credible job.

hehe ... one sometimes wonder what the people on my first tables really thought ;)

1/5

Doug Miles wrote:
On the other hand, there are people who I never would have believed could sit in the GM's chair who have done a credible job.

And, that's a fair point. I don't think that there's many players who can't be credible GMs, with encouragement and coaching...but it's not zero.

Two examples I'm thinking of from my own gaming groups, of people who really should never be GMs:

- A guy who has very noticeable memory issues. Even after playing 3E/3.5/PF on a regular basis for 12 years, he simply cannot remember basic rules, such as how many actions he can take in a round, or what provokes an AoO.

- A guy who has Asperger Syndrome*, and who is nearly always utterly oblivious to social cues, and can't understand when to not break into the middle of someone else's conversation.

* PFCBG: not my amateur diagnosis, but an actual diagnosis from a doctor :-)

Yeah, I edited this while PFCBG was replying. :-)

5/5

Mike Mistele wrote:
Doug Miles wrote:
On the other hand, there are people who I never would have believed could sit in the GM's chair who have done a credible job.

And, that's a fair point. I don't think that there's many players who can't be credible GMs, with encouragement and coaching...but it's not zero.

The examples I'm thinking of from my own gaming groups, of people who really should never be GMs -- it's nearly always due to either very noticeable memory issues (e.g., the guy who simply cannot remember basic rules, such as what does and doesn't provoke an AoO, after 12 years of regular play of 3.x/PF), or emotional / social issues (e.g., the friend who has Asperger's*, and who simply cannot read social cues, or understand when to not break into the middle of someone else's conversation).

* PFCBG: not my amateur diagnosis, but an actual diagnosis from a doctor :-)

hehe

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

I don't like the "point award if you GM; costs a point to play" schemes.
For one thing, forcing an unwilling body into the GM seat doesn't strike me as a recipe for an enjoyable table - people should GM when they are ready (even if it takes years, or even decades, for a player to try out the view from the other side of the screen). It also defines an economy where there only very limited ways to earn credit; there are lots of other activities that contribute to an enjoyable shared experience.

Come to that, I'm not fond of "pay to play" schemes that collect money from the players and then give it back to the GM as store credit. I'm lucky enough that the $3.39 for a scenario PDF (plus the cost of ink to print it out) isn't a big deal to me; I don't feel that ought to be paid for by players who have to budget for the bus fare to get to the store. Sure, I can use my GM credit to buy a flip-mat, module, rulebook, ... for somebody else who steps up to GM, but I can do that anyway.

Edit: This reads like a very negative post. That really isn't my intention.

Shadow Lodge 1/5

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Chris Bonnet wrote:

Drogon

That absolutely rocks. You are must run an awesome store.

He does, and I GM there frequently.

I also GM at another store which recently had this problem. Answer was, we, meaning us who GMed every friggin week, took some time off to do the retirement arc away from the store.

People didn't step up the first week, and some tables were canceled. It happened the week after that as well. Request was made and problem was noted by the non venture officer store coordinator. After that, people started volunteering. Problem didn't persist.

Hope that helps.

4/5

I know our area ran GM 101, and that netted a couple people to start GMing. It's just a simple fact that most people don't want to GM. I say if there's a weekend you don't want to GM once in a while, then don't. You're the volunteer, not them, and the players need to understand that.

Perhaps having an event where it's new GM friendly, and advertise it as such? Maybe lots of first steps, where the players can help out the GM. Make sure there's at least a regular GM at each table so that they can provide tips.

Our little fiasco:
I remember when my EEoT group took the weekend off. The store that was going that weekend only had 1 GM (when we usually have 3 full tables), so tons of people got turned away. It was only 1 weekend, though, and really there wasn't anything that the "usual GMs" could have done about it.

Sorry to those people, but if people don't volunteer, they don't get to play. You can't rely on the same people every weekend when we have other things we can be doing with our time.

5/5 *

Yiroep wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

We did have the majority of our GMs tied up in our retirement group, didn't we? :0)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

It is true that not every play will or should become a GM. Some people don't find joy in it, others do not have the ability and some give back to their communities in other way.

It is also true that sometimes you need to scrape the barnacles off of your boat if you are going to keep sailing.

Allowing a community member to just take from the group will cause harm to the group. Now people new to the community should not be expected to immediately give back but they should know that this will be expected of them

Letting someone go to pursue their own brand of fun in other venues is not something that should happen often or be something that comes out of the blue.

We have luckily had very few individuals that we have had to say goodbye to (one who went so far as to shoplift from one of our FLGSs).

By being willing to draw this line and take this stand we have been able to create a drama free, safe and above all fun environment for the San Diego gaming community. One where people are welcome, open, sharing and give so that the scene can be better for all of us.

You can make your communities more amazing. You can attract and retain great people and you can get enough judges so that the load is shared and the games are good.

Silver Crusade 5/5

From my experience, not GMing is often a matter of not being confident in one's own competence to run a game. The concept of organized play may seem to raise the bar there, as GMs are expected to know the rules and not just to improvise when they don't. But for such prospetive GMs, there's actually a key thing about PFS that makes it quite approachable compared to most RPG GM jobs: PFS is run one session at a time. If someone realizes that GMing is not for them or it's something they would rather do only every few months or so, they can (unlike in a campaign/AP) make that decision without failing a social obligation to their gaming group. Telling your players that they can try GMing without committing themselves in the long term makes it socially easier to step up as a GM.

New GMs will generally encounter the most significant gaps in their rules knowledge during the first few games they run. You should use those games to build their confidence. If possible, have them run their first games to familiar players who will enjoy the game even with a few mistakes made, and whose comments the new GM won't take too hard. If the GM trusts you, play in his/her table yourself if you can. Give them easy scenarios to run, too: the First Steps series is a safe choice, but anything that's Tier 1-2 without highly complicated plots should work.

Sovereign Court 3/5

RainyDayNinja wrote:
Matt Savage wrote:

Point system.

You get five points just for existing/joining.

Play one scenario = cost one point.

GM one scenario = get five points.

Its worked well for us.

That's an interesting idea, but how many new players are really ready to GM after playing only five games? I think I might front-load it a little more, such as 15 points to start, and 4 points for GMing.

and that'll work too.

Five works for us. I'll hand a new GM an easy scenario and go over it with them. Either I or another experienced player will be at the table. It works out. I do a lot of hand-holding.

I'll also do "the points don't count against you right now" for things like first steps, etc. So really five games will turn into a bit more.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Something our VL does for people interested in GMing, but a bit nervous, is to set up a home game with the more dedicated players and the new GM. This sets up a more caring and nuturing environment where the seasoned players can offer advice, know the rules, and they dont work against the scenerio. The primary goal is to get the GM comfortable leading. After a couple games like this, the GM has a better idea of what to expect and gets a little GM credit on a character. Having the players bring snacks and such also helps make the game more comfortable.

Dark Archive

This one will probably get erased like most of mine do, but honestly some, not all, but some of the good dedicated GMs in my area really just do not like GMing for PFS because of the lack of room to adjust the modules in any way shape or form. It becomes more of a chore, less of a good time. My 2 cents.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Nimon wrote:
This one will probably get erased like most of mine do, but honestly some, not all, but some of the good dedicated GMs in my area really just do not like GMing for PFS because of the lack of room to adjust the modules in any way shape or form. It becomes more of a chore, less of a good time. My 2 cents.

A few things for you to think about, Nimon.

Avoid the negative attitude. "My posts will get pulled because my posts get pulled." is very self-defeating.

As to your local GMs who are "good", but not willing to GM PFS because of a "lack of room to adjust modules in any way shape or form." are suffering from a problem in interpretation.

Things that cannot be changed:
Numbers, types, and builds of enemies and other NPCs in the scenario.
Rewards given out for defeating/overcoming said enemies.

Things that can be adjusted, if necessary:
Enemy tactics. Remember, however, that enemy tactics can only be adjusted in response to player tactics that can (and will!) invalidate the tactics-as-written. In RPGs, just like real war, remember that the first rule is that no plan survives contact with the enemy.

Things that should be adjusted:
Non-enemy NPC reactions to the party and its members, along with their actions.

If the PCs just kill everything they encounter, then they will wind up finding that they start failing missions, as no one is available to give them the information they are looking for. How can you Gather Information if everyone who sees "Zurgar the Cannibal" coming disappears? Remember that Pathfinder allows the GM to give circumstance penalties on skill checks, and that PC actions can and will affect NPC attitudes.

On the other hand, if the PCs go out of their way to be friendly or helpful, then they might get a circumstance bonus to gather information, or that the NPC whose tactics say "Run away at 5 hit points" might, instead, if the situation warrants (no clear exit for his getaway) might give up instead; and, if the party treats him decently, might give up needed information easier.

And I won't even go into the scenarios that are designed to be fairly free-form for most of the game; where the PCs actions can determine if they can even find the place they need to go to; and, sometimes, what they encounter there.

Heck, I saw someone recommending First Steps, Part 2 as a pure dungeon crawl, with no RP. Yet even this scenario has several points where the game can turn into RP instead of pure combat.

Spoiler:
How does the party handle their initial encounter with the former Pathfinder agent?

And, later, depending on which way they approach the final areas, they can just go stomping on kobolds, or there is a chance for them to actually cut a deal with one of the kobold groups, and totally change how the final encounter plays out.

To be honest, I feel sorry for those GMs for not checking out a potential source of new players for their home games, by giving a little in order to gain more. ::shrug:: YMMV.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of excellent GMs in Nimon's area that GM for PFS. Dozens of them, in fact. I know because I live in his area and, as I mentioned above, I do not lack for GMs in any way. Very few stores in Colorado do, actually.

Shadow Lodge 3/5

This thread is gold. Advice worthy of inclusion into the next PFS guide.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Honestly, the best way to get more GMs is...time. Almost every game day in the Atlanta area (and there are 7+ a month with multiple tables) has GMs ready to go before the scenarios are even announced. Those that still need a GM or two usually have them within a couple of days. I personally have passed on several game days because there were no GM slots and I'd already played the scenarios.

The biggest reason is that we have five groups (of 6) that have completed Eyes of the Ten. Once you've done that you tend to either drop out of PFS altogether or move to mainly GMing.

More immediately, try to schedule a scenario(s) that you know some of the ones who have been around the longest have already played but the newer players haven't (something from season two or three?). Ask the older players to GM. "I have a printed copy of the scenario and chronicle sheets for you (stress that they get one). I have a battlemat that one of you can borrow." Look for one of the "quick" scenarios that are mainly dungeon crawling. Many potential GMs are most worried about their ability to role play multiple characters; let them get their feet wet with something that's mainly box text.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

I should have placed more emphasis on the "run older scenarios" idea. Most scenarios I see (game days or conventions) that are still lacking GMs are the brand new ones that a lot of people don't want to "spoil" for themselves. People who are really involved in PFS are far more likely to say "oh, I've already played that one. I suppose I could GM."


Drogon wrote:

I run between 16 and 20 tables per month at my store (Enchanted Grounds in Highlands Ranch, Colorado). I announce my entire schedule monthly during the week leading into the month (so April will be announced during the final week of March, etc.). I start out by soliciting for GMs.

** spoiler omitted **...

Um.. can I defect?

Liberty's Edge 2/5 *

Belafon: I must admit Im in that boat. The only recent scenario I have run is Fortress of the Nail and thats because the dm had to pull out. At the moment Im running season 0 stuff. I have run about 4-5 season 0's so far. Im doing this because A) I was told they are 'easier' to run B) They give me a lot of background information on the setting and C) They are generally friendlier to new players. I can build them up to a 3-4 and then they can move on to the season 1-5 stuff. I have played some of the ones I have gm'd but generally thats not why im picking the ones I am picking to run.

The Exchange 1/5

I think this was less of a problem in RPGA back during the Living Greyhawk campaign. In that campaign, you could only gain credit for a scenario once. If you judged it before you played it you were "eating" the scenario because you couldn't assign it to one of your characters.
LFR did away with this and allowed unlimited replaying of scenarios. With this development, people wanted to replay scenarios constantly so they could level up their new character they built using the latest WOTC splat book. The judges who were running got DM fatigue, and the players got spoiled by it.
PFS I think is suffering the after effects of this - the players have learned they don't want to judge and some of the judges got sick of running all the time and so finding new judges is hard.

Dark Archive

Drogon wrote:
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of excellent GMs in Nimon's area that GM for PFS. Dozens of them, in fact. I know because I live in his area and, as I mentioned above, I do not lack for GMs in any way. Very few stores in Colorado do, actually.

You do not live in Colorado Springs. You do however try to take our players from the springs when you can, and even though our GMs go to Denver, rarely have I seen them come to the springs. Everrett is constantly looking for GMs in the Springs. So do not try to call me out like that.

This is the kind of stuff Drogon pulls in our area. Instead of being able to go to the local store 5mins away, he uses his influence to cancel that event so that his is full, which is an hour both ways for us in the Springs.

I'll admit it: I bogarted Everett's usual day at Gamer's Haven and asked him to switch his to the 20th. There is a worldwide event happening on the 20th that I am a host for, and I didn't want to just cancel PFS, so Everett and I traded weekends.

Enchanted Grounds in Highlands Ranch is running the Race for the Runecarved Key in the morning (and still has space - it is teir 1-12, so you can play literally any character you have) and has room at Rise of the Goblin Guild (tier 1-5) and The Sanos Abduction (tier 3-7) in the afternoon.

As Jacob mentioned, there is a carpool of Springs players heading up for the big game in the morning. If you'd like to sign up and come along, just let me know. That goes for anyone else, as well. The announcement was updated yesterday if you would like to see what's


Nimon, Drogan:

Quote:
So do not try to call me out like that.
Quote:
This is the kind of stuff Drogon pulls in our area

Shiny footprints, guys..

Dark Archive

kinevon wrote:
*Stuff see above

This is however the official ruling by Mick Brock. So I guess some VCs might let you get away will all of what you wrote, which I too have tried, but this is not the way it is supposed to be.

Mark and I discussed this. The scenarios are to be GMed as written. This isn't a grey area. I'm more concerned with a GM who thinks he can adequately adjust a scenario to better challenge the party and then kills PCs because extra creatures were added, or harder DCs were assigned to traps, or a coup de grace not written in the tactics, or any number of other circumstances a GM could change. There also is the added consideration that if a GM increases the difficulty of a scenario, you are also burning up more resources of the PCs that other players didn't have to, thus causing the PCs at your adjusted scenario table to spend more gold than they should have had to. It opens a Pandora's Box that just doesn't need to be opened. GM the scenarios as written please.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Re: Nimon & Drogon:
I really don't see how Drogon does anything to sully the PFS activities in the Springs. It doesn't sound like he forces anyone, players or GMs to drive up to participate in the games. The games are on certain days every month, so there are no (purposeful) scheduling conflicts.

Okay, enough on that matter.

In regards to the topic at hand, I know the feeling of being burned out on GMing. Shortly after I started playing RPG's with D&D 4e Encounters, I volunteered to run the program at a new game store a block from my apartment. This lasted for 5 "seasons", little over a year, once a week every week, even when I tried to take a break. When someone decided to fill-in, they GMed one session and then was never heard from nor seen again. So I went back in, running cold (not a fun thing as many of us here already know. I then got married and moved away from the game store and had to stop running.

I won't lie, seeing the listed benefits of GMing at a certain establishment made me want to try again, but I was still burnt out. That's when the owner of the store I ran games at said one of my regular players and her husband were wondering where I was playing PFS at. Because they enjoyed playing at my tables so much.

Long story... still kind of long, the praise and compliments from the players was enough to get me to go behind the screen again. And that shiny list of perks for running at the store? Not gotten a one of them because I haven't been running there. I try, but someone snatches the game I wanted to run 45 seconds before I can send the email, haha. I've done sessions at home or online through VTTs and Skype. The point is I do it for the fun. But it took a push from the players, the confidence of others to get me there.

Praise your GM's, new and old alike, and they may just keep sitting behind the screen for longer. Some may go out of their way to do so. GMing doesn't have to be a thankless job. And when your players see the praise, they may want a little themselves.

Dark Archive

Sior wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I try, but someone snatches the game I wanted to run 45 seconds before

Yeah ,it sucks when that happens doesn't it. I guess its easier to see when it happens to you.

Sovereign Court 4/5

Nimon wrote:
Sior wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

I try, but someone snatches the game I wanted to run 45 seconds before

Yeah ,it sucks when that happens doesn't it. I guess its easier to see when it happens to you.

Not at all. I'm glad we have enough GMs who want to step up like that. I was just saying it wasn't for lack of trying.

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