Ok so my players decided early on that the head of Khazrae Kuelata (the Erinyes head) would make a good if slightly erratic source of info. They have put her in a helm and carry her around to use her true seeing. She often insults their lack of perceptiveness and since she cant even gesture has to give rough descriptions. They also try to get planar info etc. They use diplomacy (and in the beginning intimidation) to try to keep her in line. Well now they went and cast heal to fix her insanity and have been wanting to "fix" her for some time. I have a pair of players that want to try to redeem her and get her a body back. The thing is they are approaching the endgame and I feel redeeming her would take time. She is an evil outsider and getting her to change alignment should take a pretty extreme event. I could see her saying sure I'll fight for you and puppies and Christmas just to get back at the devils responsible for her being put in her pervious bodyless state. Maybe with true conversion happening near the campaigns conclusion. At the very least she would owe them quite a few favors, but I doubt my players will restore her body without believing she wants to be not evil.
Thoughts?
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Really glad to see this question resurrected. There's so many ways this could go. :)
If you're not planning on taking the campaign beyond CoT's endgame:
Yeah, rushing both her redemption and restoration might make things feel unsatsfying to the players, depending on how deep they want to go with that development. But if the campaign is planned to end where the AP does, perhaps you can leave that character in an upwards trajectory when they exit that plotthread. She wouldn't be where they were hoping to take her, but she'd be on her way.
Gotta say, they are playing it smart. Not only does Khazrae's situation make her pretty sympathetic, it makes her a relatively safe possibility for fiendish redemption.(emphasis on "relatively"!) That and she doesn't have much reason to want to return to Hell anyway. The desperation of her situation might force her into some re-evaluation of the self. (players throwing Peri-related lore at her might not hurt either)
Couple of possibilities come to mind that could be hinted at for the players, but the first is probably something that would have been best performed earlier in the campaign for full effect:
1. Recruit a Cassisian Angel to aid in her reformation. These folks are so perfect for the job of being Khazrae's jailor, bodyguard, and tutor, it's uncanny. That and you can get a cool visual out of it.
2. Possibly tying into 1., at some point when she's ready to try and become something better than what she is now, the players might hand her off to celestials to take her to Nirvana's Ilse of the Penitents(think of it as a weird sort of NG Silent Hill and you have an idea of what that place is like). It would have to be something Khazrae chose, and she might very well be terrified of what she's going to face(her own sins) and what she'll become(something fundamentally different than her old state of being), but if it's something she goes to willingly it could be a satisfying bit of closure for the players if they weren't going to get to play out the long process of redeeming her.
Then again, they might be happy to just have a tangible sign that she's turning over a new leaf before ending the campaign, keeping her eventual reformation and restoration as something they could assume their characters did after the campaign. If you have a good handle on what your players were hoping for, you might be able to work out some sort of 10 Years Later epilogue concerning how Westcrown has changed after their adventure, with the Khazrae situation falling into that.
Do you plan on taking the campaign further than the AP as written? That would give you some extra slack to work with, but you might very well be building campaign extentions just to keep that plotthread going.
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Just thought of something. This is mostly hinging on visuals and going back to the Cassisian Angel angle(but not entirely dependant on using one):
If redemption does happen and restoration doesn't, or before restoration can happen(or if she's taken off by celestials to the Isle or something else), perhaps she could either wind up merging with her Cassisian keeper or she could develop Cassisian helm-like features around her head, thus becoming something entirely new and unique in the setting. Not quite a Cassisian and not exactly what one might expect a risen Erinyes to look like, but something with its own particular look and nature.(and ironically putting her in a role in the Upper Planes similar to the one she served on the Prime, both for her old master and later the PCs: Advisory/guiding cranium person thing)
Considering her history and where the players hope to take her, it may be the best way to go. She'd never be what she was before, but she could become something different upon choosing a different path.
edit-Gah, thinking about that visual further, perhaps she could further grow and evolve, eventually gaining a metallic body she earns bit by bit through penance and good works, eventually resulting in this armored body with her winged-helm-shelled head floating above the shoulders with no neck attaching it.
(if you go with a sort of epilogue approach, perhaps you could leave the present time period with her in that "Cassisian-hybrid" state and have her fully evolved in an epilogue appearance?)
I've always run Outsiders as being elementally what they are. Angels are elementally good and Demons are elementally evil. While I would say you were committing an evil act by committing genocide on orcs -- because even if orcs are usually evil, they're not Capital-A-Always evil -- I would permit the very same against devils and demons.
Still, I would allow it to happen as a very long, difficult and untrustworthy process. Even if successful, you wouldn't end up with a good devil. Outsiders' bodies and spirits are the same thing, and if Khazrae's nature changes, then (in my cosmology) it's a simple fact that she's going to change into a new kind of being. Devils supposedly came from angels, after all ...
I've always run Outsiders as being elementally what they are. Angels are elementally good and Demons are elementally evil. While I would say you were committing an evil act by committing genocide on orcs -- because even if orcs are usually evil, they're not Capital-A-Always evil -- I would permit the very same against devils and demons.
Still, I would allow it to happen as a very long, difficult and untrustworthy process. Even if successful, you wouldn't end up with a good devil. Outsiders' bodies and spirits are the same thing, and if Khazrae's nature changes, then (in my cosmology) it's a simple fact that she's going to change into a new kind of being. Devils supposedly came from angels, after all ...
You realize that like Nethys's The Book of Magic you contradict yourself.
Being 'elementally what they are' means that it is "impossible" for a true Outsider to change alignment.
You then go on to describe what happens if a devil changes alignment.
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The key thing though is that it definitely is possible, given the examples already out there in the game and in canon.
FAR from easy, and likely physically, emotionally, and spiritually painful, but possible. :)
OP's issue seems less about "can it happen" and more "how to portray it in a satisfying manner with what little time is left in the campaign?"
You realize that like Nethys's The Book of Magic you contradict yourself.Being 'elementally what they are' means that it is "impossible" for a true Outsider to change alignment.
You then go on to describe what happens if a devil changes alignment.
Dough is elementally unbaked. That doesn't mean it cannot be baked, but it does mean that if it is baked, then it is no longer dough (it is now bread).
What I'm trying to describe is that in my interpretation, because outsiders' souls and bodies are one, then if their souls change then their bodies will too, and they will become a new creature (as demonstrated by the fall of angels becoming devils).
I feel that's a decent interpretation of long-standing lore; I feel it presents interesting material to work into plots; and I feel it addresses distasteful emergences from the idea that there can be Lawful God Balors and Chaotic Evil Solars running around.
I'd say that if there's any flaw, it's that of being tautological, but when a creature starts sprouting horns and hellfire because its 'definition' has changed, I won't be overly critical of that.
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I just wanted to let everyone know that the gnome bard in my group took Khazrae under his wing... her and specifically, her eventual redemption, are now his reason for not Bleaching. He totes her around everywhere, a Khazrae keychain, if you will.
I believe he mentioned that he planned to try and kill the undead her and then resurrect her to be his minion with the leadership feat... Good times, particularly since of the party members is Janivan (who ranger-ly hates outsiders) and the other is a half orc ranger (whose obsessions are not only evil outsiders but also undead).
Oh, the arguments and bullying going on my table while the ranger constantly threatens the bard with "throwing his head into the ocean" is sort of awesome, though I sort of wish I could lower the inherent bullying, even if it is all character motivationally conceived.
On this subject, Wrath of the Righteous #3 and/or #4 has some stuff about redeeming Evil Outsiders. Some considerations for this specific case of getting some head Good(or was it the other way around?).
As a Lawful entity, Khazrae should be amenable to forming a contract. Given that the ultimate goal of said contract will be the redemption of a fallen Angel, even a Paladin shouldn't be at risk of falling for making a deal with this Devil. This contract shouldn't be specifically about becoming Good, but simply one of, say lifetime assistance/Servitude. The lure of restoration/resurrection should be a big draw alone, but the prospect of revenge against those who did this to her later could sweeten the pot immensely.
As a Devil associated with vengeance, I would almost think about making the pre-requisite or her atonement forgiving the one who took her head, at least in order to make it full swing to LG. In the module, its listed as the Archdevil Moloch who did this, but it'd be neat to turn it into Liebdaga instead. Of course, if you're past that point, perhaps she was a consort to Mammon before he lost his body?
So... can Khazrae use all of her spell-like abilities... including Teleport and Summon?
I don't see why not, and I can't see anything in her backstory about losing these spells. You would just have to persuade her to do it each time, and maybe roll on the Confusion table to see if she prefers to yodel instead.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th)
Constant — true seeing
At will — fear (single target, DC 19), greater teleport (self plus 50 lbs. of objects only), minor image (DC 17), unholy blight (DC 19)
1/day — summon (level 3, 2 bearded devils, 50%)