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Dysfunction, what do you mean by #16? Do you mean that characters gain their favored class bonus (hit point, skill rank, something else if the player has access to additional resources) every time they gain a new level in their favored class? (That's true.) Or that they can choose a new favored class ever level? (That's not true.)
Incidentally, #20 is true for Attacks of Opportunity, but not for readied actions. "I ready an action to trip that guy as soon as he stands up" is a legal readied action, and it can keep an opponent on the ground.
Chris, readied actions that go after something always have had a problem. A Ready jumps in Init. order to be before the triggering action, so in effect you are saying "I ready an action to trip that guy (going before him) as soon as he stands up (going after him)". Huh? where in the Init. order do we place you after this round? Say the Stand Up Guy was going on Init 10. Are you Init -10 or +10 now? Ready normally puts you before him in the Inititive, but your action needs to have happened AFTER he went...
(It basicly means that you are have Ready'ed a Delay action...)
I agree with Nosig on this. Readied actions are triggered on actions, and you come in before the action is complete. you can't ready an action to trip someone AFTER they stand...you can come out of delay to do so, but you'd have to wait until after that creature's round has completed.
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I agree with Nosig on this. Readied actions are triggered on actions, and you come in before the action is complete. you can't ready an action to trip someone AFTER they stand...you can come out of delay to do so, but you'd have to wait until after that creature's round has completed.
Sure you can. You just specify the condition for your readied action to be "immediately after they are standing".
If you want to be pedantic and say that you can't ready to do something after a particular action, then the player just has to get creative. Say something like, "I ready an action to hit him the first time he tries to do something after standing up, or if he ends his turn while standing."
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actually - I wasn't saying you CAN'T do it, I don't really know. I just wanted to point out to Chris that this is a possible problem with the way Ready is being currently run in PFS. Get him to think about it and maybe he'll be able to explain why we can do it, or why we can't. And to let everyone know to expect table variations (YMMV) on this point.
OH! and to find out where in the Init order you would end up if you readied an action in response to another action.
It isn't a problem with out Ready is being run in PFS. Its a problem with how Ready works in Pathfinder.
If you ready an action, your initiative always resets to just before the person you are interrupting. Even if it doesn't make conceptual or time/space continuum sense.
You just have to suspend your disbelief and let it work the way its written in the rules.
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I agree with Nosig on this. Readied actions are triggered on actions, and you come in before the action is complete. you can't ready an action to trip someone AFTER they stand...you can come out of delay to do so, but you'd have to wait until after that creature's round has completed.Sure you can. You just specify the condition for your readied action to be "immediately after they are standing".
If you want to be pedantic and say that you can't ready to do something after a particular action, then the player just has to get creative. Say something like, "I ready an action to hit him the first time he tries to do something after standing up, or if he ends his turn while standing."
so, if he stood on Init 10 and you had a readied action in response to this - are you going before Init 10 or after on you next action?
Are you before the guy standing, or after?
A readied action always resets the readier to before the current action.
Even if it doesn't make time space continuum sense.
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Sure you can. You just specify the condition for your readied action to be "immediately after they are standing".If you want to be pedantic and say that you can't ready to do something after a particular action, then the player just has to get creative. Say something like, "I ready an action to hit him the first time he tries to do something after standing up, or if he ends his turn while standing."
CRB, p. 203
Ready
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to
that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character’s activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don’t otherwise move any distance during the round.
You cannot ready an action to trigger after an action. Readies interrupt actions. I'm not being pedantic, I'm following the rules. If the player gets creative with "the first thing he does after standing up" (which is perfectly legal as far as I can tell) the GM is equally free to be creative and attack from prone, then stand up, and let your readied action go to waste since its the end of that creature's round.
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You can't as far as I know. You're not in initiative. You're operating on a narrative.Ok that was wierd. Empty post...
How many of you allow readying outside of combat, i.e. I ready to shoot something when the door opens.
What I do in these situations is:
Archer: I want to ready to shoot the next thing that comes through that door.GM: Ok, are you hiding or standing out in the open?
Archer: Standing out in the Open.
GM: <Rolls perception check for badguy> Potential modifiers might include the -10 for a door being in the way, and the base perception of 0 because the archer is standing out in the open in normal lighting.
Either the badguy fails or makes his check.
If he fails, the archer gets a surprise round with the badguy just inside the doorway.
If he makes it, then both roll initiative and depending on if anyone (other badguys behind him or characters not paying attention/in another room) else is surprised either have a surprise round, or just start with the 1st round of combat.
There are plenty of examples in movies and literature where the guy holding his gun or crossbow on the hero, doesn’t always get to go first.
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And a developer backs it up. In Pathfinder, DESPITE the language that got removed (turns out that section wasn't Open Game Content so they couldn't keep it), creatures with reach DO threaten the second diagonal.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lost?Reach-at-diagonals#12That's Ross Byers (Assistant Software Developer) posting in 2011.
Sean K Reynolds (Designer) posted in late 2012 about how he conferred with Jason Bulmahn (Lead Designer) about the ruling that, while you do not threaten the 2nd diagonal, you do threaten a 10-foot band across which a creature must pass in order to move up adjacent to you.
Thread summary:
SKR 2: The 10-foot-radius band.
SKR 4: Confirmation that this post "sounds right".
Ok so let me see if I have this right.
If a person is wielding a reach weapon then they can only attack into 4 squares? Because they can't hit adjacent to themselves, and they can't quite reach on the diagonal. Is this correct?
O=can't attack
X=can attack
P=Player
OXXXO
XOOOX
XOPOX
XOOOX
OXXXO
Natually they would still get AoO if someone moved in along the diagonal as per SKR's ruling
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And a developer backs it up. In Pathfinder, DESPITE the language that got removed (turns out that section wasn't Open Game Content so they couldn't keep it), creatures with reach DO threaten the second diagonal.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lost?Reach-at-diagonals#12That's Ross Byers (Assistant Software Developer) posting in 2011.
Sean K Reynolds (Designer) posted in late 2012 about how he conferred with Jason Bulmahn (Lead Designer) about the ruling that, while you do not threaten the 2nd diagonal, you do threaten a 10-foot band across which a creature must pass in order to move up adjacent to you.
Thread summary:
SKR 2: The 10-foot-radius band.
SKR 4: Confirmation that this post "sounds right".
Ok so let me see if I have this right.
If a person is wielding a reach weapon then they can only attack into 4 squares? Because they can't hit adjacent to themselves, and they can't quite reach on the diagonal. Is this correct?
O=can't attack
X=can attack
P=PlayerOXXXO
XOOOX
XOPOX
XOOOX
OXXXONatually they would still get AoO if someone moved in along the diagonal as per SKR's ruling
All of this is technically correct--however, this leads to incredible silliness where a reach-weapon wielders can never attack on their own turns in one of those diagonal hallways that are occasionally included with our scenario maps. They can still get AoOs, but they can't actually make any of their regular attacks. This leads to many GMs occasionally ignoring Sean on the grounds of the common sense rule, especially when diagonal corridors are involved.
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Ok so let me see if I have this right.If a person is wielding a reach weapon then they can only attack into 4 squares? Because they can't hit adjacent to themselves, and they can't quite reach on the diagonal. Is this correct?
O=can't attack
X=can attack
P=PlayerOXXXO
XOOOX
XOPOX
XOOOX
OXXXONatually they would still get AoO if someone moved in along the diagonal as per SKR's ruling
looks like 12 squares to me, not 4 :)
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...And a developer backs it up. In Pathfinder, DESPITE the language that got removed (turns out that section wasn't Open Game Content so they couldn't keep it), creatures with reach DO threaten the second diagonal.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2lost?Reach-at-diagonals#12That's Ross Byers (Assistant Software Developer) posting in 2011.
Sean K Reynolds (Designer) posted in late 2012 about how he conferred with Jason Bulmahn (Lead Designer) about the ruling that, while you do not threaten the 2nd diagonal, you do threaten a 10-foot band across which a creature must pass in order to move up adjacent to you.
Thread summary:
SKR 2: The 10-foot-radius band.
SKR 4: Confirmation that this post "sounds right".
Ok so let me see if I have this right.
If a person is wielding a reach weapon then they can only attack into 4 squares? Because they can't hit adjacent to themselves, and they can't quite reach on the diagonal. Is this correct?
O=can't attack
X=can attack
P=PlayerOXXXO
XOOOX
XOPOX
XOOOX
OXXXONatually they would still get AoO if someone moved in along the diagonal as per SKR's
Listen to the Eidolon gone rogue younglings, it´s a source of reason in this question. Reach weapons are already something that deserves more love in this game, just as rogues actually do.
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Ranger rick: "How come you're not attacking anything?"
Polearm Paul: We're heading north east, i can't attack anything in that direction!
Ranger rick: Takes out his compass, holds a magnet 45 degrees off of north
Polearm paul: Impales a kobold "Much better! Thanks!
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Common misconceptions I've noticed at my tables include believing erroneously that Diplomacy can be used in Combat (or rather, that one can make a Diplomacy check as a standard action).
You can use Diplomacy to "make a request" of a creature, which may take only 1 round, depending on the complexity of the request. My paladin regularly does this to request to parley, rather than fight.
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I never played 3.0/3.5 so I can't speak to that. I'll just note what the rules say: "Diplomacy is generally ineffective in combat and against creatures that intend to harm you or your allies in the immediate future."
Of course, every Diplomacy-in-combat-happy player seems to think that their particular situation somehow falls outside of the vast majority demanded by the word "generally."
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That you can 5' foot in the middle of a full attack.
That a full attack does not have to attack all the same creature.
That people think charm person is a better version of domanite person. I have seen people flip out when the victim does nto start killing his teammates after being hit by this spell.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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That a full attack does not have to attack all the same creature.
I don't believe you're correct here.
Full Attack
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough (see Base Attack Bonus in Classes), because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon, or for some special reason, you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.
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Another question:
If I rapid shot, or monk flurry, or two weapon fighting, do all of my attacks have to be against the same target?
No. You can even take a 5' step between attacks of a full-attack action, which would let you threaten a target for your 2nd or 3rd attacks that you didn't threaten for your 1st.
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I have this often bookmarked because DMs doubt me. When I kill something with one attack 5' step into it's square and attack something else. Then I stress the word during.
Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions and swift actions (see below). See Table: Actions in Combat for a list of full-round actions.
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If I roll a nat 20 with my gunslinger, does the misfire chance still affect my confirmation roll?
Obviously the shot still hits, but I am wondering that if I fall into the misfire range during my critical confirmation roll, would it count against me for being confirmed?
No, because the confirmation roll isn't an actual attack roll.
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No, because the confirmation roll isn't an actual attack roll.
It actually says it is an attack roll.
From d20pfsrd:
To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to "confirm" the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made
You should differ between attack and attack roll here. You are only shooting once, so there can only be one misfire chance.
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You should differ between attack and attack roll here. You are only shooting once, so there can only be one misfire chance.
No, because the confirmation roll isn't an actual attack roll.
It actually says it is an attack roll.
From d20pfsrd:
To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to "confirm" the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made
This.
And please don't use the d20PFSRD as your source. Please use the PRD.
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…she can strike a vital spot for extra damage…. The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot.A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernable anatomy,…Whether it says no or not, I think the above statements indicates it can’t be done. If the swarm has no discernable anatomy, then the rogue can’t pick out a vital spot.
yes but swarms of tiny or larger creatures have discernible anatomy, therefore you can sneak attack them. hence the exclusion of "Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack." elemental and ooze types list that, swarm does not.
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if swarms are immune to sneak attack, it would say so under their traits.
ooze traits say oozes are immune to precision damage.
elemental traits say elementals are immune to precision damage..
regardless of what you post, the place where immunity to precision damage is listed is not listed for swarms. it does not say so, therefore they are not immune.
this is my last post i'm making on the subject. it is QUITE clear that they are not immune, if you choose to believe otherwise, that's up to you. but for PFS changing rules is not allowed, and you cannot claim swarms of tiny or larger creatures are immune to sneak attack, when they are quite clearly not.
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if swarms are immune to sneak attack, it would say so under their traits.
ooze traits say oozes are immune to precision damage.
elemental traits say elementals are immune to precision damage..
regardless of what you post, the place where immunity to precision damage is listed is not listed for swarms. it does not say so, therefore they are not immune.
this is my last post i'm making on the subject. it is QUITE clear that they are not immune, if you choose to believe otherwise, that's up to you. but for PFS changing rules is not allowed, and you cannot claim swarms of tiny or larger creatures are immune to sneak attack, when they are quite clearly not.
Wow, that's quite an aggressive stance there. Borderline calling me a cheater because I interpret the situation differently than you?
Could it be that the developers didn't put that specific line under swarm because they didn't feel they needed to, as there are 3 other reasons quoted above, why swarms can't be sneak attacked?
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asthyril, in my profile, I list myself as an unapologetic simulationist. There are all sorts of things in PFS that make me twitchy in that regard, but, let's for a moment imaging that a skilled rogue is attacking a swarm of wharf rats with her dagger. I'm not sure how she would attempt a sneak attack in the first place; she can't feint or flank the swarm. But let's say she gets to attack before the swarm acts in the surprise round.
The swarm has 14 hit points. Her dagger does 2 points of damage, and she gets 4d6 or 18 points of damage. Are you imagining that she hits one rat in just the right spot so that every other rat drops dead?
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There are some swarms that can be damaged by weapons.
Mad Monkeys comes to mind.
If you were to somehow deny dex, or flank a swarm of monkeys then I would say that you would get to sneak attack them because swarm traits to not say they are immune to sneak attack.
That being said most swarms are immune to weapon damage so you wouldn't be able to sneak attack them.
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There are some swarms that can be damaged by weapons.
Mad Monkeys comes to mind.
If you were to somehow deny dex, or flank a swarm of monkeys then I would say that you would get to sneak attack them because swarm traits to not say they are immune to sneak attack.
That being said most swarms are immune to weapon damage so you wouldn't be able to sneak attack them.
Swarms can't be flanked, as is noted in the Swarm Traits above.
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asthyril, in my profile, I list myself as an unapologetic simulationist. There are all sorts of things in PFS that make me twitchy in that regard, but, let's for a moment imaging that a skilled rogue is attacking a swarm of wharf rats with her dagger. I'm not sure how she would attempt a sneak attack in the first place; she can't feint or flank the swarm. But let's say she gets to attack before the swarm acts in the surprise round.
The swarm has 14 hit points. Her dagger does 2 points of damage, and she gets 4d6 or 18 points of damage. Are you imagining that she hits one rat in just the right spot so that every other rat drops dead?
i'm claiming what are rules, are rules. does an invisible enemy that you have no clue is there provide a flank? yes. it makes absolutely no sense why, but he does provide a flank according to the rules.
same situation, but let's switch the invisible guy to an illusion that you failed to make the save versus and you believe is real. now does that absolutely real (to you) illusion provide your enemies with a flank? no. it makes absolutely no sense, but it does not provide a flank according to the rules.
for that matter, how do you grapple an air elemental? stick your head inside it, take a deep breath and hold it? this game is filled with abstracts that do not make sense, but those are the rules, for whatever reason you must follow them in PFS. that's what makes the game a level playing field regardless of what region of the world you go to.
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this game is filled with abstracts that do not make sense, but those are the rules, for whatever reason you must follow them in PFS. that's what makes the game a level playing field regardless of what region of the world you go to.
I agree with you.
However, I would argue that the rules of sneak attack (as opposed to the precedent set by creature type traits that indicate whether or not sneak attack or precision damage works) would indicate it doesn't work against swarms.
They have no discernible anatomy, and sneak attack requires you to be able to decipher discernible anatomy.
How do you work around that rule?
When two rules (one really isn't a rule, its a precedent, which is different, but for this argument we'll call it a rule) conflict, which do you go with?
I'd say the most stringent (or specific) in most cases.
In this case, the most stringent and most specific are the rules on how sneak attack work.
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Swarms can't be flanked, as is noted in the Swarm Traits above.There are some swarms that can be damaged by weapons.
Mad Monkeys comes to mind.
If you were to somehow deny dex, or flank a swarm of monkeys then I would say that you would get to sneak attack them because swarm traits to not say they are immune to sneak attack.
That being said most swarms are immune to weapon damage so you wouldn't be able to sneak attack them.
But I do believe they can be caught flatfooted, and I think they can be blinded. They can also be made unaware by turning invisible (unless they have some way to detect an invisible creature).
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But I do believe they can be caught flatfooted, and I think they can be blinded. They can also be made unaware by turning invisible (unless they have some way to detect an invisible creature).Swarms can't be flanked, as is noted in the Swarm Traits above.There are some swarms that can be damaged by weapons.
Mad Monkeys comes to mind.
If you were to somehow deny dex, or flank a swarm of monkeys then I would say that you would get to sneak attack them because swarm traits to not say they are immune to sneak attack.
That being said most swarms are immune to weapon damage so you wouldn't be able to sneak attack them.
Sure, but how do you sneak attack something without discernible anatomy?
That's what Swarm Traits says.
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But I do believe they can be caught flatfooted, and I think they can be blinded. They can also be made unaware by turning invisible (unless they have some way to detect an invisible creature).Swarms can't be flanked, as is noted in the Swarm Traits above.There are some swarms that can be damaged by weapons.
Mad Monkeys comes to mind.
If you were to somehow deny dex, or flank a swarm of monkeys then I would say that you would get to sneak attack them because swarm traits to not say they are immune to sneak attack.
That being said most swarms are immune to weapon damage so you wouldn't be able to sneak attack them.
Sure, but how do you sneak attack something without discernible anatomy?
That's what Swarm Traits says.
Well I can't say I had noticed that line before. It would seem that swarms don't have kidneys for the rogue to stab.